Do Boating Safety Courses Really Produce Safe Boating?

[centerline]

If you still believe that government does things that are vertious I've got some swamp to sell you!!!!

if you were to have put some thought into this before posting, we wouldnt be seeing it here.... you own a boat.... where do you think all these public docks come from?.. the jetties that protect our harbors?... the people that is going to come and rescue you when you call for help?.... the list could go on.
your opinion may be valid concerning some parts of government, but as to the subject here, you just didnt think it all the way thru

 

[Stu Jackson]

and the roads & bridges you use to even get to your boat.

 

[Parsons]

There have been so many great comments on this thread by respected posters that I hate to add, but ,,. The original question sets up a logical fallacy that sometimes is used to argue against any regulation -- if a law does not completely eliminate the problem, it is not worth doing. This is like saying that I won't bother wearing a seat belt because I may still die in an accident The correct analysis is, "Does the cost of the regulation give more value in cost savings or safety." The experienced boaters or even captains that need to get the state ticket are outliers. I expect that most of the people I've seen on my local waterways would benefit somewhat by being told even once the basics like don't drink and boat, have a PFD for each passenger, or there are rules of the road. Perhaps it makes them a little more cautious. The cost to administer this, and inconvenience for the us to take the "test", is really small -- much less than drivers licensing. Personally, I don't think that proving competency prior to doing potentially dangerous things is an undue burden of government.

 

[njlarry]

I have a masters license with sail and towing endorsements. I have been on the water since I was eight. I believe you can't teach a leopard to change it's spots. If someone has general disregard for rules, drinks, or speeds at inappropriate times you will not "learn" it out of them. Most people can be taught to pass a test but if they are not prone to take the situation seriously, they won't. We don't have enough law enforcement on land to stop drivers from texting while driving , which everyone knows is illegal, and enforcement agencies on the water are even thinner! Perhaps you should be given the test without being given a class. That would ensure that you took enough time and effort to be actually invested in the process. I passed my original boaters safety course in New Jersey, given by the state police, without taking an official couse. I was and am interested in boating and all the associated rules and customs and pomp and circumstance that goes with it. To answer your question, you would not be able to teach me anything and have me apply it in my daily life if I were not interested. That is why we have law enforcement, if there were no repercussions for straying from the rules I would need the rocket launcher option on both my car and boat.

1) Totally agree!
2) Let me know how you get the rocket launchers mounted.

 

[25yearslater]

There are several insights into this issue and all are relevant to this discussion. I personally have multiple issues with this simplistic approach. My basic premise is; A serious boater needs no invitation to becoming educated in the nautical arts. Second; since we are crossing state and international borders in many cases, will we be required to test through each state? This is an issue that should reside with the Federal Govt. Perhaps the Coast Guard is the appropriate authority for licensing/testing. This would also reinforce the seriousness of the issue since it carries the weight of a federal entity. Another entity would be the insurance companies. These folks ultimately bare the costs of boating accidents. State testing from what has been posted is blatantly set to a lowest common standard. From what has been observed so far, an I.Q. somewhere between a radish and a stick is sufficient to pass. Finally none of this testing insures any degree of competence with regard to seamanship. Again we have the one and done. How in anyway does this make for safer boating? I'm not convinced there will be a net benefit since I personally observe innumerable violations and every sort of demonstration of poor seamanship often by 6 pack captains and those sporting 6 figure dollar value boats.

 

[Jacktar]

Just to underline out a good point brought out by Marke 14 The folks on this forum usually have a boat and have operated it (good or bad!) for some time. The boating courses and exams are aimed at those with the first boat, or a boater who as gotten into trouble with it already. Those will benefit because it will expose them to boating safety and rules that they have not knowledge of and will result it at least them knowing some things so they tiurn the right way at night when they see your nav lites or least slow down and remember that there is some sort of rule about these things. All in all cant hurt and unless you set up a database to compare with and without we dont really know if it will work. As a member of the CGAux we do boat exams to ensure the boat has the minimum safety gear on board and they we have at least talked to them about boating safety plus getting them attend our boating courses. This based on CG studies that is does in fact reduce accidents and injuries so they continue to fund our efforts.

 

[LloydB]

I learned something when I got mine..

 

[Gunni]

If you have been around boating long enough you know that boater safety concerns were brought to a head when Satan sent his favorite water toy to earth - the jetski. Mankind received a Go-Fast boat un-intimidating even to a 10 year old child. For the price of a dirt bike, a whole new breed of boater came down to the shoreline to get in on this zoom-zoom water-sport thing. It wasn't long after that we started finding their kids floating 2 miles offshore, out of gas, buzzing the dock, running into the dock, or otherwise being clueless boaters.
It was only a matter of time until people demanded regulation of the madness. And hence we have rules that require kids on boats must be accompanied by adults, receive training certs, or even better - both. This is a job for states and localities where these things are licensed and trailered, not the US Coast Guard. Recreational small motor-boaters are by-and-far the public's boating safety issue. Regulation is applied where the problem is acute. You may not like it, but it was inevitable when we received the dark gift - mandatory boater safety training

 

[Kings Gambit]

I completed the on-line "Boater Safety Education Course" for CA in 2013 b/c my charter company in British Columbia wanted me to have a "safety certification" as skipper of a bareboat charter on one of their boats. No doubt, an insurance requirement. Even with more than 25 yr of sailing experience and yacht ownership over that period; experience that included having skippered many bareboat charters in toto from Australia, California, BC, Florida, and the Caribbean--plus having an ASA Instructor's Card--- my "official eligibility" to skipper their yacht evidently depended on successful completion of a multiple-choice test that cost me $30 to take. I admit that I probably could have gotten the charter company to waive--but what the heck?-- it was bound to come up again.

So I dived in.

Even with a 97% pass I cannot recall in detail any particular question from the exam. If I learned anything new about safety--I don't specifically recall it. If I'm a safer boater for it, then I could not tell anyone now what is different about my sailing that makes me so. Frankly, I've learned more about boating safety from participation in this forum than I ever would from a boating safety test study guide. So, I'm certain that completing the BSEC has not produced a demonstrably safer boater in me; I doubt it would do so for anyone else. Like any activity requiring skill and application of special knowledge, one has to actually do it--regularly. Safe boating is a practiced art--one cannot access or "certify" another's ability from an MC test, nor train a person in the art using one. Are they worthwhile? Clearly, some think yes; others think no. If there is utility, I think it would have to lie with the newbies. Evidently, that's what the proponents think, which accounts for the gradual increase in age of exemption in CA through 2025. The old-timers are opted out of it (statute) for now b/c they are much less likely to be newbies, etc.

 

[CYQK]

WELL...........
Let me tell you about my experience with this bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!

When the gov introduced the plan to my area making it mandatory along with a large fine for noncomp I thought might as well check it out
Now, being a regular not that smart of a person that i am i ask about the test out feature

WELL.....the gov person said NO WAY that a reg guy like you could possible pass the test without the coursefirst and on and on
I then asked is it available? He then said well yes. Ok then give me the test!! He said then you know we don't like to do this you should pay first and take the course

As predictable as tommorrows sunrise I only missed one question and they were forced to forward to paperwork

But........the story doesn't end there on the form you fill out for the test there is a section where you can answer no to a question if you will consent to making your info public which I answered NO!!!!!
Guess what??? Got a phone call from a boat salesman that heard I was looking for a boat??? Who me??? I already have a boat where did you hear thAT i WAS LOOKING FOR A BOAT?? iT WAS THE SAME PERSON WHO WAS ADMINISTERING THE TEST who gave him my number.
I do think this stuff is illegal brought it to attention and do you think anybody gave a care??

You can say this is a rant if you like you can say that this is an overreaction to a vert govn if you like but I think this type of stuff is exactly what is wrong with TODAY
We must resist this stuff!!

 

[uncledom]

WELL...........
Let me tell you about my experience with this bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!

When the gov introduced the plan to my area making it mandatory along with a large fine for noncomp I thought might as well check it out
Now, being a regular not that smart of a person that i am i ask about the test out feature

WELL.....the gov person said NO WAY that a reg guy like you could possible pass the test without the coursefirst and on and on
I then asked is it available? He then said well yes. Ok then give me the test!! He said then you know we don't like to do this you should pay first and take the course

As predictable as tommorrows sunrise I only missed one question and they were forced to forward to paperwork

But........the story doesn't end there on the form you fill out for the test there is a section where you can answer no to a question if you will consent to making your info public which I answered NO!!!!!
Guess what??? Got a phone call from a boat salesman that heard I was looking for a boat??? Who me??? I already have a boat where did you hear thAT i WAS LOOKING FOR A BOAT?? iT WAS THE SAME PERSON WHO WAS ADMINISTERING THE TEST who gave him my number.
I do think this stuff is illegal brought it to attention and do you think anybody gave a care??

You can say this is a rant if you like you can say that this is an overreaction to a vert govn if you like but I think this type of stuff is exactly what is wrong with TODAY
We must resist this stuff!!

CY the person who gave out your information should be in jail. You should have filed an official complaint and followed your complaint of breach of privacy right to the supreme court if needed. It is outrageous but doesn't mean people shouldn't be taught boater safety. I just think the delivery of that knowledge and testing process could be better.

 

[thinwater]

Anyone that uses a lifetime of experience to ace the test without having to study might think it a colossal waste of time and effort, and perhaps government overreach.

But a large percentage of newer boaters will have to study and learn new things to pass. It is those very learnings (like perhaps ROW) that boaters in the first group expect them to know when they meet on the water. Its hard to imagine that being a bad thing.

A better question is whether my daughter learned anything when she took the class at about 14. Although she had been on the water since she was born and Dad had taught her, much, it is different coming from a teacher. There is no question that she gained many small bits of information that had not stuck before and a greatly increased sense of responsibility. The next day she stood tall in the saddle, I was comfortable letting her take the tender with friends, and I have never had cause to regret this confidence. In many ways she is more careful than I am.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Not to confound issues between boater education and boater safety courses or education. Boaters have been taking bona fide boater education courses for decades. Some, like Power Squadron, are classroom only; others, like Red Cross, may have an on the water component. Then, there are the ones offered through US Sailing, ASA, and various yacht clubs around the country in their youth and adult sailing programs most of which have field components. They are far more than a study of the rules. If someone completes a Power Squadron boater education course and then takes a test, and passes it at 70%, he/she gets a certificate of completion. That is true for the others as well; even the "safety courses", but those may also issue a card to carry with you- i.e., your state "license." The card may say Boater Education, but the program/statue is sold to the public under the moniker "Boating Safety." An illustrative link is below.

Obviously many believe, and it may be true, that boaters with boater education will be safer boaters, so that "justifies" its portrayal as a "safety" course. But it appears [to me] only a ruse to make palatable the legislation to state boating groups and to certain of the public, etc., who may fear worse, but who might otherwise resist it as another unnecessary regulatory imposition on the activity. After all, how could anyone be against "safety?" But, do you really "learn" anything different in a state-mandated Boating Safety Course or Boating Safety Education Course that you would not, or did not, "learn" in a traditional Boater Education course from Power Squadron? It's inevitable now that we will have a national, maybe international, boater "safety" certification program in response to a few tragic accidents on the water. This could, potentially [in the near term], suck nearly $50 million (est. 16,000,000 registered US boaters x $30/card = $48,000,000) out of the pockets of registered boaters into the indefinite future and beyond. Once in, there's no getting it out. Now, it's a lifetime card; soon it will be a renewable one on a 5-yr schedule. Doubtless, a large portion of any revenue generated will go to support the on-line testers as show below. And there is absolutely no way IMHO and in spite of my earlier comment above that it can be shown that boating safety courses/education and the associated proof card produces safer boaters or significantly mitigates boating accidents over common sense boating!!
I think they call it buying a "pig in a poke!"

https://www.boat-ed.com/california/?gclid=CJ3tgpTGlcoCFY8dgQodSgMJzw

 

[Brian D]

Well, if you are in California... http://www.boatus.org/california/

I am sure that BoatUS also has other state certification.

 

[Jackdaw]

As far as I can tell, EVERYBODY on my lake knows and obeys the COLREGS. I attribute that to state law requiring successful completion of a boater safety course.
I sail out of a sailboat-only marina that has no fuel dispensing, so I don't know for sure, but I suppose that the fueling safety portion of the course has made people aware of the dangers and the proper procedures for fueling.

So you believe the Coast Guard is not 'vertious.' How about creating navigational charts? No? Weather forecasts?

Just to clarify, if you are sailing on lake you are sailing under the Inland Waterway Rules, Not Colregs.

And the USCG does not produce the weather forecasts or charting, NOAA does.

 

[uncledom]

I took the US Sail SAS (safety at sea) course which is more hands on than theory. You must have two certified crew on board for races that take you outside the Long Island Sound to be qualified for a race sponsored by YRALIS. That is the way people should be taught in my opinion. There's a bit of pressure from wanting to understand and perform well as part of a team. It was a great learning experience.

 

[alexco38]

Perhaps an apprenticeship or mandatory on water testing

There is a separate license and $30 per year renewal fees for anyone entering Toronto harbor. Some call that cash grab but I call it a model that everywhere should follow. You need to attend a face to face course and water test (you bring your own/borrowed/rented boat) with MOB maneuver, leaving and docking. I can't remember how long you lapsed the renewal before need to take it again. The police boat do check in the harbor, including sailboats. They don't seem to border me as I fly a Power and sail squadron flag.

http://www.portstoronto.com/Port/Power-Vessel-Operators-Permit.aspx

 

[capta]

As a professional operator of day tour traditional sailing vessels (multiple trips per day, 7 days a week, all summer) in places like Charleston and the Connecticut River since the 'safe boater' certificates came into effect, I have seen very little, if any, improvement in the boat operating public.
It seems the states give the test as a revenue generating device and most of those who take it do so only because they must. From the actions of most of those I've seen on the water, they did not even learn basic courtesy.
I believe yacht club and the power squadron courses given by instructors who actually care, to those actually seeking to learn about safe boating are a better way to go, for gaining knowledge.
If they make the test too hard, people will go boating without it anyway, so it's almost got to be a giveaway.
We're pretty soft about that stuff in the US. After all, even a USCG master's certificate under 500 tons CAN be gotten by someone who has never been on a boat, as long as he or she can pass the tests.
Those that want to learn will do so w/o a test anyway and those that don't will walk away from the class only with a little card (or whatever) that says they've passed the test.

 

[BigEasy]

As Kloudie mentioned, In LA it is mandatory for anyone born after Jan. 1, 1984 to attend a boating course and carry a boater license card when operating a boat with a motor of 10HP or greater. The courses are available at no cost as is the "operator license". There is no guarantee that an operator is going to operate a vessel safely just as there is no guarantee that a licensed automobile driver is going to operate a vehicle safely. Hopefully by exposing people to boater education, some will become better and more informed boaters as they acquire more experience and are hopefully motivated to learn more about boating.
In Louisiana there are literally thousands of vessels including offshore crew boats & supply vessels, ships, tows, commercial fishing vessels as well as recreational motor and sailboats. It can be a very dangerous environment; I think that the mandatory operator license is a good thing. With the potential for mishaps, I believe that it just as important for a boater to be educated and licensed as is an automobile driver. It is not another money grab as the state provides the boating course & operator license at no cost.

 

[jwing]

Just to clarify, if you are sailing on lake you are sailing under the Inland Waterway Rules, Not Colregs.

And the USCG does not produce the weather forecasts or charting, NOAA does.

I take your word on the first point and stand corrected.

You missed my meaning on the second. I was giving counterpoint to the stupid, yet often repeated, claim that the federal government is worthless and does not contribute any benefits to society. I wrote down the first three related-to-sailing benefits that entered my mind, about half-a-second worth of thought:
1. Coast Guard
2. Navigational Charts
3. Weather Forecasts
I did not mean to imply that the Coast Guard was responsible for charts and forecasts.

Now you know why I am not a professional writer.