I am not a diver and am too claustrophobic to ever become one... but I would like to have the ability to dive to check zincs, hulls, etc. I am looking at 2 products - supersnorkel and Surfacedive. Both provide air flow to a depth of at least 20' (far more than I need). Does anyone have experience with these? Thanks!
Diving Without Tanks - Surfacedive/Supersnorkel???
- Thread starter augustwinds
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Be careful!!!
20' is deep enough for an embolism!!! If you are uncomfortable under water you might hurt yourself especially diving around a marina!!!
20' is deep enough for an embolism!!! If you are uncomfortable under water you might hurt yourself especially diving around a marina!!!
Not without training
As a PADI diving instructor with over 40 years of diving experience, I would advise caution in any activities involving breathing compressed air underwater. You can injure yourself in as little as 3'of water. The physics of diving are not difficult, but training is required before trying it. At the very least I would recommend a Discover SCUBA diving course which will emphisize the minimum safety consideration required. Diving is a fun and safe activity which can be learned by any healty person age 10 or older, but it does require training.
As a PADI diving instructor with over 40 years of diving experience, I would advise caution in any activities involving breathing compressed air underwater. You can injure yourself in as little as 3'of water. The physics of diving are not difficult, but training is required before trying it. At the very least I would recommend a Discover SCUBA diving course which will emphisize the minimum safety consideration required. Diving is a fun and safe activity which can be learned by any healty person age 10 or older, but it does require training.
Practice holding your breath.
Seriously. It's a lot cheaper than one of those compressors for what you want to do. And all you need is a mask. I'm not saying that you can get to the point of changing a zinc but at least you'll know when to ask for help. And it's vital to know what you are doing with compressed air. Nothing to add on that subject.
Seriously. It's a lot cheaper than one of those compressors for what you want to do. And all you need is a mask. I'm not saying that you can get to the point of changing a zinc but at least you'll know when to ask for help. And it's vital to know what you are doing with compressed air. Nothing to add on that subject.
Ditto, Ditto, Ditto,
This not intended to discourage you, just to strongly urge you to get some formal and qualified training first. I learned to dive the hard way. Mostly self-taught or through informal knowledge passed on by other self-taught divers in the early Sixties. This was before organized instruction was inexpensive, widespread and easily accessible. I had over 1000 hours of down time logged (including decompression, recompression, hookah and mixed gasses experience) before ever became certified (and then by an instructor with a fraction of my experience). I am also one of those stubborn cusses that chafes at most any regulatory intervention. I thought that I knew all that I needed to know after my first few uneventful descents. Over the few years that I was an active diver(part-time commercial work paid for part of my college education), I learned many lessons about what I didn't know. BUT...some of those 'lessons' were horrible object lessons of other divers' mistakes that remain indelibly ingrained in my memory. Even free diving under your hull poses significant risks and some of them are not intuitive or easily deduced. Hookah rigs, such as you are considering, have their own inherent dangers. There are plenty of experienced divers under the ground or leading painfully crippled and shortened lives simply because of equipment failures resulting from careless maintenance or operation. Take, at least, a basic diving course as suggested and you will be far better able to make an informed decision based upon knowledge rather than uninformed opinion or advertising puffery.
This not intended to discourage you, just to strongly urge you to get some formal and qualified training first. I learned to dive the hard way. Mostly self-taught or through informal knowledge passed on by other self-taught divers in the early Sixties. This was before organized instruction was inexpensive, widespread and easily accessible. I had over 1000 hours of down time logged (including decompression, recompression, hookah and mixed gasses experience) before ever became certified (and then by an instructor with a fraction of my experience). I am also one of those stubborn cusses that chafes at most any regulatory intervention. I thought that I knew all that I needed to know after my first few uneventful descents. Over the few years that I was an active diver(part-time commercial work paid for part of my college education), I learned many lessons about what I didn't know. BUT...some of those 'lessons' were horrible object lessons of other divers' mistakes that remain indelibly ingrained in my memory. Even free diving under your hull poses significant risks and some of them are not intuitive or easily deduced. Hookah rigs, such as you are considering, have their own inherent dangers. There are plenty of experienced divers under the ground or leading painfully crippled and shortened lives simply because of equipment failures resulting from careless maintenance or operation. Take, at least, a basic diving course as suggested and you will be far better able to make an informed decision based upon knowledge rather than uninformed opinion or advertising puffery.
Claustrophobia
Claustrophobia is about feeling you have no control when you are in the enclosed space. You may get it if you sit in the back of a car but not if you are driving the car. Give SCUBA a try, if you have the training and are in control you will not be bothered.
Claustrophobia is about feeling you have no control when you are in the enclosed space. You may get it if you sit in the back of a car but not if you are driving the car. Give SCUBA a try, if you have the training and are in control you will not be bothered.
Yes
Now that all the dangers and diving training advice has been dispensed with. I will say that I think they come in very handy. I am a certified Divemaster, thus I am trained. But I have also had the pleasure of using a similar system and it worked very well for cleaning and inspecting bottoms. It allows a longer bottom time than breath holding without keeping track of scuba gear and tanks.
Now that all the dangers and diving training advice has been dispensed with. I will say that I think they come in very handy. I am a certified Divemaster, thus I am trained. But I have also had the pleasure of using a similar system and it worked very well for cleaning and inspecting bottoms. It allows a longer bottom time than breath holding without keeping track of scuba gear and tanks.
I've been free diving my boat......
....for 15 years. Mask, fins, wetsuit is all you need. The dangers that these SCUBA divers are warning you about are very real. Do not discount them. I free dive my boat every week and clean the bottom and inspect the prop and zinc. At first it took me an hour+ to clean my hull (35'). Now I can do it in 1/2 that time. With practice you'll see how easy it is.
....for 15 years. Mask, fins, wetsuit is all you need. The dangers that these SCUBA divers are warning you about are very real. Do not discount them. I free dive my boat every week and clean the bottom and inspect the prop and zinc. At first it took me an hour+ to clean my hull (35'). Now I can do it in 1/2 that time. With practice you'll see how easy it is.
I Got The Message....
Thanks for all the great advice! I will try holding my breath to check out the zinc and hull this weekend... maybe I'll also check into some diving lessons over the winter.
Thanks for all the great advice! I will try holding my breath to check out the zinc and hull this weekend... maybe I'll also check into some diving lessons over the winter.
For knowledgeable divers only,,
The fellow who cleans my boat bottom in my marina has a cool method that should work on many boats at anchor. He uses an electric powered compressor, like one that would power a nail gun. It's light weight and easy to stow. His hose and regulator looks to be about 50' long. It has none of the CO dangers of a gas powered unit. I assume it's oil free. An inverter would run it and your main engine alternator would keep it going for longer needs. FWIW. Oh, it doesn't cost much more than a fraction of those floating units. Disadvantage: Not usable to explore away from the boat.
The fellow who cleans my boat bottom in my marina has a cool method that should work on many boats at anchor. He uses an electric powered compressor, like one that would power a nail gun. It's light weight and easy to stow. His hose and regulator looks to be about 50' long. It has none of the CO dangers of a gas powered unit. I assume it's oil free. An inverter would run it and your main engine alternator would keep it going for longer needs. FWIW. Oh, it doesn't cost much more than a fraction of those floating units. Disadvantage: Not usable to explore away from the boat.
Tankless air
I know "divers" will rebel, but I have been using a tankless diaphram oilless compresser for years to work on my boat bottoms. It cost les than $100 at Home depot,including 50' of plastic hose. At the breathing end I hooked on a second stage regulator and put in an inline filter. It provides all the air I need set at low pressure.Of course, I need to use it at my dock to get 110 volts, but the idea of an inverter is very interesting. Incidently. I am in my 70 somethings, so it has apparently had no ill effects on my health. Good sailing Ron B Lighthouse Point Fl.
I know "divers" will rebel, but I have been using a tankless diaphram oilless compresser for years to work on my boat bottoms. It cost les than $100 at Home depot,including 50' of plastic hose. At the breathing end I hooked on a second stage regulator and put in an inline filter. It provides all the air I need set at low pressure.Of course, I need to use it at my dock to get 110 volts, but the idea of an inverter is very interesting. Incidently. I am in my 70 somethings, so it has apparently had no ill effects on my health. Good sailing Ron B Lighthouse Point Fl.
Not so much 'rebel'...
As desiring to point out that someone who doesn't know any more than the info in your post is at serious risk. I'll list a few concerns about risks that resulted in actual injuries to divers that I personally knew or occurred on the jobs where I worked. So...these are not bogeyman stories. Again...this is not posted to dissuade anyone from using them...Just urging anyone who doesn't know better, to learn how to use them properly and why. 1. Be concerned about a dock mate firing up an engine near your unattended air intake. Fatally high CO levels and anoxia can easily result. 2. In the "old days" 72 cu. inch tanks were popular among sport divers because at 30' (one atmosphere) they would last about an hour on the average. Conventional wisdom, at the time, was that diving for less than an hour or at less than one atmosphere would not cause enough nitrogen gas absorption into the bloodstream to create a significant risk of embolism when surfacing without decompression time. As a result, early recreational hookah rigs limited hose length to 25'. Doubling the hoses has resulted in embolisms. While not always fatal and very treatable if re-compression is done promptly, permanent joint pain was a frequent result. Our commercial rigs had longer hoses and we worked at depths greater than thirty feet, but on safe jobs...the dive-master kept scrupulous track of down time and enforced application of decompression tables. While not actively diving anymore and not up on the latest info, I have heard enough warnings to suspect that the old standards may be considered a bit unsafe now. 3. These units have no reserve air capability in the event of a shutdown or pump failure. It is imperative that a recreational diver maintain an unobstructed path to the surface and be able to instantly shed any entangled apparatus or equipment. On job sites we had mini-bottles on our belts that gave about 5 minutes worth of unregulated air in shallow water if you had the hang of working the valve judiciously (I seriously doubt employers could get away with our procedures and equipment today). 4. Oil-less compressors are not necessarily so, if left unattended and contaminants are able to enter the air intake. It is a horrifying sight to watch someone drown on the deck. It is an agonizing death. Never leave one of these units unattended while you dive and be certain that the attendant knows why.
As desiring to point out that someone who doesn't know any more than the info in your post is at serious risk. I'll list a few concerns about risks that resulted in actual injuries to divers that I personally knew or occurred on the jobs where I worked. So...these are not bogeyman stories. Again...this is not posted to dissuade anyone from using them...Just urging anyone who doesn't know better, to learn how to use them properly and why. 1. Be concerned about a dock mate firing up an engine near your unattended air intake. Fatally high CO levels and anoxia can easily result. 2. In the "old days" 72 cu. inch tanks were popular among sport divers because at 30' (one atmosphere) they would last about an hour on the average. Conventional wisdom, at the time, was that diving for less than an hour or at less than one atmosphere would not cause enough nitrogen gas absorption into the bloodstream to create a significant risk of embolism when surfacing without decompression time. As a result, early recreational hookah rigs limited hose length to 25'. Doubling the hoses has resulted in embolisms. While not always fatal and very treatable if re-compression is done promptly, permanent joint pain was a frequent result. Our commercial rigs had longer hoses and we worked at depths greater than thirty feet, but on safe jobs...the dive-master kept scrupulous track of down time and enforced application of decompression tables. While not actively diving anymore and not up on the latest info, I have heard enough warnings to suspect that the old standards may be considered a bit unsafe now. 3. These units have no reserve air capability in the event of a shutdown or pump failure. It is imperative that a recreational diver maintain an unobstructed path to the surface and be able to instantly shed any entangled apparatus or equipment. On job sites we had mini-bottles on our belts that gave about 5 minutes worth of unregulated air in shallow water if you had the hang of working the valve judiciously (I seriously doubt employers could get away with our procedures and equipment today). 4. Oil-less compressors are not necessarily so, if left unattended and contaminants are able to enter the air intake. It is a horrifying sight to watch someone drown on the deck. It is an agonizing death. Never leave one of these units unattended while you dive and be certain that the attendant knows why.
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
how long a snorkel is safe
I have a snorkel rig that allows me to get under my boat to do some work. The hose is about 4 feet long at the end of my snorkel and has a float on top to prevent it from going underwater. I plan to breath in through the mouthpiece and out through the nose valve of my mask. I haven't used it yet. I am about 18 inches under water. Is this setup safe?
I have a snorkel rig that allows me to get under my boat to do some work. The hose is about 4 feet long at the end of my snorkel and has a float on top to prevent it from going underwater. I plan to breath in through the mouthpiece and out through the nose valve of my mask. I haven't used it yet. I am about 18 inches under water. Is this setup safe?
Not a Scuba Diver
I am not a scuba diver and and have had limited experience with snorkels, but it would appear that their is a limitation as to how deep you can dive with a snorkel. The tube has to be big enough to get the required amount of air. Once the tube length and diameter exceeds a volume which depends on the diver, the diver will begin breathing air which he has exhaled, since his lung capacity will not allow him to completely fill/evacuate the tube. As a result the tube will contain more and more CO2. I am surprised that such an arrangement could be used down to 20 feet.
I am not a scuba diver and and have had limited experience with snorkels, but it would appear that their is a limitation as to how deep you can dive with a snorkel. The tube has to be big enough to get the required amount of air. Once the tube length and diameter exceeds a volume which depends on the diver, the diver will begin breathing air which he has exhaled, since his lung capacity will not allow him to completely fill/evacuate the tube. As a result the tube will contain more and more CO2. I am surprised that such an arrangement could be used down to 20 feet.
Another diver
I'm an exerienced diver. I won't add horror stories, but will add that in my opinion, any type of Hooka is more dangerous than a tank. The setup adds another possible thing to wrong (the compressor), and many people believe it requires no training, which it does. Also, the long snorkel idea MAY work for a few breaths if you are only 18 inches underwater, but it is definitely not safe. There will be a pressure difference that will make it very difficult to breath, AND it can damage your lungs ( causing blood vessels to burst ). Google it. Free Dive or get a diver to clean and inspect for you.
I'm an exerienced diver. I won't add horror stories, but will add that in my opinion, any type of Hooka is more dangerous than a tank. The setup adds another possible thing to wrong (the compressor), and many people believe it requires no training, which it does. Also, the long snorkel idea MAY work for a few breaths if you are only 18 inches underwater, but it is definitely not safe. There will be a pressure difference that will make it very difficult to breath, AND it can damage your lungs ( causing blood vessels to burst ). Google it. Free Dive or get a diver to clean and inspect for you.
I tried the long snorkel idea many years ago.
Go down a foot and you can't inhale! Not to mention re-breathing the air in the tube. The fact that it should never be done was never mentioned in dive class. No one in my class ever thought of it. (and lived to tell about it.) Whew. John speaks gospel.
Go down a foot and you can't inhale! Not to mention re-breathing the air in the tube. The fact that it should never be done was never mentioned in dive class. No one in my class ever thought of it. (and lived to tell about it.) Whew. John speaks gospel.
Amps, compressor, inverter
I dont know if the person who recomended using the compressor via invertor on board has tried that before. But on our boat and even in our house at time the amprage draw at start up on compressors will trip almost any circuit on your boat if not some at your house. Great posts here, I have thought about the Hooka rigs but would be petrified if one of those stopped, or flipped while I was down. take a dive class and buy some used gear.
I dont know if the person who recomended using the compressor via invertor on board has tried that before. But on our boat and even in our house at time the amprage draw at start up on compressors will trip almost any circuit on your boat if not some at your house. Great posts here, I have thought about the Hooka rigs but would be petrified if one of those stopped, or flipped while I was down. take a dive class and buy some used gear.
Any dive, with compressed air, is serious
As soon as you submerge using compressed air you are adding air volume to your lungs to equalize the effects of the added pressure on your body in the water. Air, at sea level, weighs 14.7 pounds per square inch (psi). Water weighs more than this, though. Each one-inch column that's one foot deep will weigh 0.445 pounds. So if you're right at sea level, the pressure will be 14.7 psi. And for every foot you go underwater, you add another 0.445 pounds. So at one foot deep, the pressure would be 14.7 psi + 0.445 psi = 15.145 psi. And at two feet deep it would be 14.7 psi + 2*(0.445 psi) = 15.59 psi, etc. In order to get to the bottom, and under, most keels, a diver will submerge 8-9 feet. The pressure there is approaching 19 psi. If your compressor is compensating, your lungs are filling with over a third more air than they would take in at sea level. At 8-9 feet below the surface, the lungs are fine, if this pressure is maintained up to sea level, your lungs will be ~35% over capacity. This is the root cause of embolisms. It is imperative that your lungs purge all excess air as the surrounding [water] pressure is reduced (as a diver ascends for example). This is accomplished by exhaling as you ascend. One of the very first rules a diving instructor will share with a student is the importance of breathing: on the way up as well as down. Often when a person finds their air supply has failed, their first reaction is to hold their breath. If your last breath was at sea level, regardless of how deep you were able to descend, holding your breath during the ascension is fine because no incremental air was introduced into the lungs. If you were using a breathing aid, the result will be progressively worst the further you have to ascend. Exhaling on the way up from a compressed air aided dive is just one of many rules one should understand and practice before venturing under the water with more than a snorkel and mask. Lessons from a qualified instructor can save your life.
As soon as you submerge using compressed air you are adding air volume to your lungs to equalize the effects of the added pressure on your body in the water. Air, at sea level, weighs 14.7 pounds per square inch (psi). Water weighs more than this, though. Each one-inch column that's one foot deep will weigh 0.445 pounds. So if you're right at sea level, the pressure will be 14.7 psi. And for every foot you go underwater, you add another 0.445 pounds. So at one foot deep, the pressure would be 14.7 psi + 0.445 psi = 15.145 psi. And at two feet deep it would be 14.7 psi + 2*(0.445 psi) = 15.59 psi, etc. In order to get to the bottom, and under, most keels, a diver will submerge 8-9 feet. The pressure there is approaching 19 psi. If your compressor is compensating, your lungs are filling with over a third more air than they would take in at sea level. At 8-9 feet below the surface, the lungs are fine, if this pressure is maintained up to sea level, your lungs will be ~35% over capacity. This is the root cause of embolisms. It is imperative that your lungs purge all excess air as the surrounding [water] pressure is reduced (as a diver ascends for example). This is accomplished by exhaling as you ascend. One of the very first rules a diving instructor will share with a student is the importance of breathing: on the way up as well as down. Often when a person finds their air supply has failed, their first reaction is to hold their breath. If your last breath was at sea level, regardless of how deep you were able to descend, holding your breath during the ascension is fine because no incremental air was introduced into the lungs. If you were using a breathing aid, the result will be progressively worst the further you have to ascend. Exhaling on the way up from a compressed air aided dive is just one of many rules one should understand and practice before venturing under the water with more than a snorkel and mask. Lessons from a qualified instructor can save your life.
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