Diving service woes

[Bob 04 H260]

Speaking of inspecting underwater with a camera, I wished that I had such a device this past summer. I don't need super detailed images, but I just want to be able to look at my prop and rudder to see if I have lines fouled. Being basically cheap, I have put together the following items:

A 10 meter cable with a USB camera on the end. I figure that I can use this for other jobs as well. IP67 rated which means that it is OK for water depths of 1 meter for less than 15 minutes. It has LEDs on the end but they are too weak for underwater use.

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01236UQS4 About $20


View attachment 117102


I added an underwater LED flashlight for $11
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011R8NPPA


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And a couple of inexpensive rechargeable batteries and charger $5.50
www.ebay.com/itm/201429609195


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Now I haven't used this stuff under water yet but I will try it out next season.

Interesting solution Rich. How much can you see with this camera. I've only played with one and it was focused about an inch in front of the lens, almost no depth of field. I could not see something a couple of feet away so could not use it inside of a wall.
We did have a friend on our boat with an inexpensive GoPro clone last season. He stuck it under the water on his selfie stick while we were sailing and we could see the whole bottom of the boat in the playback, but the water was quite clear (Bahamas).
I would like to put something together myself and if your camera would work I'll go that way.
Bob

 

[wufibugs]

Without arguing your statistics, I don't know anyone in my marina, or in the section of Marina Del Rey where I was for a few months, that has their hulls cleaned more than monthly. And if Levin's is a month's growth, 3 weeks is much too long an interval. I can only surmise that if every boat in SD Bay had to have a cleaning every 10 days or so, dive services would be doing quite well [which is not to necessarily to say that their employees would share in this bounty].

 

[fstbttms]

Without arguing your statistics, I don't know anyone in my marina, or in the section of Marina Del Rey where I was for a few months, that has their hulls cleaned more than monthly.

We're not talking about MdR. Hull cleaning frequency in the LA/Orange County area is monthly. In San Diego it is 3 weeks in the summer, 4 weeks in the winter.

 

[centerline]

you can jump in the water yourself with a snorkel or whatnot and clean your own hull... but it has always seemed quite the investment in gear and effort.... (and even if it wasn't it seems like a ton of time that I'm not sailing and doing yet another chore).

with all the cameras one could buy to check on someones shoddy work, the trouble and hassle of dealing with the careless diver afterwards, and the effort and hassle spent looking for a good service while the boat is not being taken care of properly.... and the accumulated costs of it all...... one would think the investment in gear so that you can do it yourself would be obvious, if you want it done the right way/your way.
you can buy used scuba equipment cheap.... and it allows you to inspect or do bottom maintenance anytime, anywhere..
if you purchase a long intermediate pressure hose for between the 1st stage and 2nd stage regulators, then suspend the tank over the side on a line, its like diving on a brownie/hookah system... (dont get this confused with diving on a brownie after smoking a hookah)

it may be an investment, but its a relatively small and worthwhile investment thats much better that what you have now, or are likely to find in the near future.

 

[fstbttms]

Anyway all of this comes up today because I just had my boat pulled out for bottom painting and the attached pictures show what I saw. Mind you the boat had been "cleaned" by my diver just over a month before. I think I'm once again in the market for a new diver

OK, I sent the photo of the foul running gear out to my San Diego hull cleaner contacts- about 20 dive services. I asked them to give their opinion on whether or not the depicted growth was normal for a 4-6 week time span. Here are the replies I've recieved so far:

Dirty Divers:
Yes, looks about right, especially in certain marinas. The water is only now cooling off. I've seen tube worms grow over 1.5 inches in under three weeks this year. Why did he not service the boat sooner? Should have been done in 21 days, not 4-6 weeks.

Aquarius Yacht Services:
That looks normal for 4 or 5 weeks of growth. I have photos of boats with that much coral in 18 days...

Executive Yacht Management:
...that amount is very normal in the summer months this year on all running gear through mid November. Our water temps are still hovering in the high 60s and some in the 70s as of last week.

Chris Boyd Diving:
Except for the growth on the zincs, this looks typical of this summers growth after 4-6 weeks. Shelter island water was mid seventies for three months and the tube worm grew over a inch per month on unpainted running gear that did not move from their slips. This is why you tried to clean them every three weeks if you could stay on schedule.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Facts, you know, those stubborn things.

Thanks, fstbttms, for the input.

 

[fstbttms]

Facts, you know, those stubborn things.

As I've mentioned several times, boat owners are often clueless about the fouling progression on their particular sailing grounds. And as seems to be the case here, will make uneducated assumptions and blame the diver for doing lousy work when in reality, rapid fouling is simply the nature of the beast, especially in California this summer, which was the longest and warmest in my 21 years in this business. I don't mean to denigrate anybody, but if you aren't in the water, cleaning boat bottoms every day, you simply don't know.

I hope the OP will take what I've presented here into account before he fires and publicly bad-mouths his next diver.

 

[wufibugs]

fstbttms would know a great deal more about this subject than me. Without meaning anything negative, it would be interesting to hear from some owners who dive on their own boats to see if their findings agree with the assessment of the folks who do this for a living.

 

[Stu Jackson]

would be interesting to hear from some owners who dive on their own boats

Richard, good point. I think, however, I would specifically limit that to those in San Diego. fstbttms and his associates noted the water temperature had a LOT to do with the rapid fouling. For example, we here in SF Bay have 57F water temperature year round, and have lots less growth. I have my bottom cleaned every three months.

 

[fstbttms]

...here in SF Bay have 57F water temperature year round, and have lots less growth. I have my bottom cleaned every three months.

Stu, I hate to burst your bubble, but in the Estuary, water temps top 70° (and in fact haven't yet dropped below 60°) and cleaning every other month is de rigueur.

 

[marke14]

My boat is berthed in L.A. Harbor, and I employ a diver who cleans the bottom on a monthly basis. I recently had the boat hauled for new bottom paint, and it was near the time when my diver would have come to clean the boat (frankly, it had been a little over four weeks, but that is a separate matter). I was shocked to see the amount of growth when the boat came out of the water!

(By the way, are these "tube worms" here? Some type of soft coral?)

Again, the timing was such that my diver would have come by and cleaned it within about a week.

All that said, I frequently hear much lamenting of dive services' quality around our local marinas (Long Beach and San Pedro/Wilmington) anytime the subject comes up. However, I would agree that a lot of that is probably due to peoples' misconception about growth rates. Hell, I once had a dockline whose bitter end hung down into the water for just a few days, and it looked like it had been underwater for years. That ish grows quickly!

 

[marke14]

P.S. - question for fstbttms - is it typical for customers to ask for photos, either to check the quality of work or for any other purpose? What I mean to ask is, is it an "insulting" request?

The nature of the work is unique in the sense that it is a service that can't be easily checked by the consumer, for quality control. People doing good work, I would think, would have no issue at all of providing a before and after snap of the boat's bottom. You'd think if anything it would increase their business if people saw the actual rate of growth!

 

[fstbttms]

P.S. - question for fstbttms - is it typical for customers to ask for photos, either to check the quality of work or for any other purpose? What I mean to ask is, is it an "insulting" request?

The nature of the work is unique in the sense that it is a service that can't be easily checked by the consumer, for quality control. People doing good work, I would think, would have no issue at all of providing a before and after snap of the boat's bottom. You'd think if anything it would increase their business if people saw the actual rate of growth!

It is no insult to request photos and at FastBottoms Hull Diving, we happily provide them. As you mentioned, I will frequently take pictures of a 3-month foul bottom and send them to the customer, along with some verbiage explaining the performance and financial benefits of a more frequent hull cleaning regimen. Works (almost) every time.

For instance- this is 3 month's growth on a new Trinidad bottom:

 

[fstbttms]

(By the way, are these "tube worms" here? Some type of soft coral?)

Those are a type of tube worm, commonly called the South China Seas coral worm. Very prevalent fouling organism in SoCal.

 

[Levin]

So I got my boat back in the water today and I was amazed at how well it motored without the great barrier reef on the bottom. And because I do like to give credit where credit is due if anyone is looking for a good boat yard in San Diego check out Shelter Island Boat Yard... I was impressed with how quickly they got things done and that they came in under quote.

As for divers, I'm still very much in the market for a new one. I think there is a natural tendency to cut corners with this type of work simply because it is hard for their work to be inspected. Who's going to know if you didn't clean the bottom of the keel? This is just human nature. Now of course there are going to be exceptions to this rule, there are going to be those who are internally motivated, and will do a good job no matter what, but we all know that people behave better when they know someone is looking than when they know they are not. I don't somehow think divers are immune to this truism.

As for the "growth rates" I simply don't buy it. There is no way that is four weeks of growth. I've had this boat a long time and I've had it hulled out before and I've never seen it like this. I've also never had my engine struggle to reach 2000 rpm at the end of a month before the diver comes or be unable to go above 3 knots. Having other divers chime in and say it's natural doesn't make me feel better either (it did however give me four more divers I know I won't use from this area... so that was useful). Anyone who looks at my picture and says anything less than: "Holy F@#%! what happened there?" (or my favorite response: "Did you drop some Rogain down sink?") clearly has a screw loose. I get that it would be beneficial for diving services to all agree that is "normal" because if the customer comes to accept that this is the definition of "good" service their lives will be easier. I also get that people from the same vocation tend to stand up for each other, so it isn't exactly unbiased opinion.

Perhaps this would be easier to accept if I hadn't had a really good diver for the first four years I owned my boat. Tony was amazing, and he had integrity. When he found out that his son who he tried to give the business to had been going to boats and just "tagging them out" without cleaning them, he came around, re-cleaned everyone's boat, admitted the fault, and closed the business for good. I still miss the service I got there, but everyone retires eventually. I'm afraid I'm going to continue my quest for my next "Tony"...

But like I said in the beginning... trust me on the Shelter Island Boat Yard recommedation.

Take care,
-Levin

 

[fstbttms]

As for the "growth rates" I simply don't buy it. There is no way that is four weeks of growth.

 

[fstbttms]

...because I do like to give credit where credit is due if anyone is looking for a good boat yard in San Diego check out Shelter Island Boat Yard...

Star Marine Service:
Looks like he hauled out at the Shelter Island Boat yard. Have him talk to Wayne Morrison, one of the owners. He will verify the summertime tube worm coral growth rate. I had boats look like this after 3 weeks.

Or maybe the boatyards are in on the conspiracy too.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Levin, it might well be worth your while to at least call Wayne and speak with him about this. Since you trust his yard, you should be able to trust his input on this issue. It shouldn't continue to be a he said - she said discussion. Either crap grows heavy and fast there in the summer water or it doesn't. Trust the experts who have been trying to teach you. Denial is really not a good option, in anything in life. Good luck.

 

[Rick Webb]

I have a question along a similar line though admittedly this may be a complete hijack.

A few of us at my club have discussed establishing a "Preferred Provider" type of deal whereby the diver would agree to a discount in exchange be the club's diver. In other words a group discount. The club would bill the members and the diver would get one payment from the club.

Anyone else have or heard of a similar arrangement?

Fstbttms, is that something that would likely appeal to a diving business?

 

[fstbttms]

A few of us at my club have discussed establishing a "Preferred Provider" type of deal whereby the diver would agree to a discount in exchange be the club's diver. In other words a group discount. The club would bill the members and the diver would get one payment from the club.

Fstbttms, is that something that would likely appeal to a diving business?

Absolutely it would. I offer a discount to all my sailing club, brokerage/dealer and charter customers.