Dilemma at Knapps Narrows - what would you do?

[Jim Seamans]

Yo Fred, they frown on you getting close

Last July I was across from a Navy base with civil traffic close by and they immediately challenged them if they got close.JimS/V Java

 

[John Nantz]

Four HSA Boats w guns in Olympia Welcome

I think I might question the "friendly nature" of those HSA boats too - those are the inflatable-looking ones with the small wheelhouse, a pair of outboards, and a machine gun mounted in the bow types.When we went into Olympia last weekend there was a ship being loaded - this is the dock that historically was basically used for loading logs for export to Asia - there were FOUR of those HSA boats guarding it. (see link below for chartlet)Welcoming Committee:Because of the minus tide we had to stay in the dredged area so there was very little room and these little critters took turns taxiing up along side us and staring/glaring at us through their sunglasses while the guy in the bow clenched the handle on the uncovered machine gun which they kept pointed in our general direction. *yksPerhaps there was some kind of sensitive cargo from the army base at Ft. Lewis? Maybe they had nothing else to do? Getting near year end and they had to balance the budget by spending salary/contract money? Practice? Training new trigger men?....Anyway, I'm not sure I would want to push the "not yet...." envelope.Picture is of a Poodle on the deck of a wood sailboat holding his toy - a stuffed poodle! (by the head!). When enough people would look at him he would shake his stuffed toy fiercely back and forth. This dog was a real crowd pleaser. Olympia Yacht Club is the tin boathouses in the background; the masts are in the Olympia marina just south of the basin in the chart.

 

[Rick Webb]

You'd be Leary as Well Sitting on A Target

The first couple of picture show why these Navy guys are nervous about any boat approching. As for the waterborne Barney Fife patrol, I wonder who is patroling the mall now?

 

[John Nantz]

Olympia Ship was a Civilian Cargo Vessel

Rick - those were pretty impressive pictures! Including the resolution! Don't know if your post was about mine or not but for info, the boat getting loaded in Olympia was a civilian cargo ship, not military and therefore under normal circumstances the people onboard shouldn't have been that nervous. However - it was American flagged, something you seldom see that often anymore, which might make one wonder. And.... it was painted mostly grey! Odd.Since Olympia isn't that far from Ft. Lewis, and given the apparent security that day (4 boats), I would just guess that it could have been taking on military cargo under contract. However again, they could have just as well gone to Tacoma which would have saved a few miles because a vessel has to pass Tacoma in order to get to Olympia - but maybe there was no dock availability. I've been by there many times before with ships docked there loading and unloading and never had that much security presence. But then logs aren't considered to have that high of a security value. Then again, the security level goes up and down. At times I've seen a couple of these HSA vessels hovering around the ferry boats and other times none.Nobody commented about the pooch!!!Eratta on my prior post: Looking at the pooch picture again, the masts are in the Olympia Y.C. not the port marina.

 

[Clay]

Civilian ship

John, The military contracts civilian shipping on a routine basis for transport of equiptment, troops etc. Who knows what cargo they were hauling. If it were my son or daughter I'd opt for two more machine gun fast boats. Remember, they dont know "you" and therefore will "ere" on the side of caution.ClayThe "Amare"

 

[Rick Webb]

Whenever You See Big Grey Ships Keep This in Mind

Naval Vessel Protection Zone Warning -- Do not approach within 100 yards of any U.S. naval vessel. If you need to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel in order to ensure a safe passage in accordance with the Navigation Rules, you must contact the U.S. naval vessel or the Coast Guard escort vessel on VHF-FM channel 16. You must operate at minimum speed within 500 yards of any U.S. naval vessel and proceed as directed by the Commanding Officer of the vessel or the official patrol craft. Violations of the Naval Vessel Protection Zone are a felony offense, punishable by up to 6 years in prison and/or up to $250,000 in fines. [Posted: 27 March 2003. Source: USCG Office of Boating Safety]

 

[Paul McGhee]

Roll out the jib?

The original post doesn't mention it, but I presume that the accident boat wasn't motor sailing. If you're sailing, or ready to sail, then having an engine die is something you can rescue yourself from, even in a tight spot.Whenever I'm motoring in a narrow channel or other confined area, I always play "what if my engine quits?" games with myself.The answer I come up with most of the time is to roll out my jib and find some point of sail where the jib will give me steerage. I say the jib because it takes just seconds to go from rolled up to rolled out and trimmed, regardless of where the wind is. The main doesn't meet those requirements. Even if the jib doesn't take me where I want to go, I'd rather have steerage. That will give me time to think of something else!The other answers (to "what if the engine quits?") I come up with most often involve the anchor. I have a windlass now, but when I used a mostly rope rode, I never left the dock without checking that the rode was flaked inside the anchor locker, and the anchor mounted on the roller ready to drop. Now I just check the windlass circuit breaker and the snubber. The anchor is just as much a piece of safety equipment as it is stop-and-rest equipment.Too bad this discussion kind of got sidetracked, this is an important topic to think about, IMHO. When I am flying, I'm always looking for a place to land when the engine quits. Same for motoring in my sailboat. Paulsv Escape Artisth336

 

[Rick Webb]

Those Big Gray Civilian Ships

Are US Government vessels that belong to the Naval Supply Agency (or something close to that). Many are used to pre-position munitions and equipment around the world. They are manned by government civilians. They may have been loading arms or munitions aboardIt seems to me the guys with the guns would have an easier job just letting folks know the area is cordoned off and please try to stay on the far side of the channel. Rather than acting like Dirty Harry on the water. That seems to be a problem with many of the Law Enforcement "Professionals" when they are young.

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

in Norfolk....

it's really close. The navy ships of every kind are lined up along "battleship row" - carriers, battleships, stuff I don't even know what they are. There are commercial tugs everywhere, plus a zillion of the inflatable gun ships described above. Of course, add in the zillion dollar sportsfishermen and motoryachts heading north and it's like downtown Manhattan only on the water. Those gunships patrol the navy vessels like watchdogs. (For those who don't know, almost every pleasure boat, barge, etc., makes the inside ICW passage through NC to avoid the dangerous outer banks route. The entrance/exit to that route is the Elizabeth River smack in downtown Norfolk. Truly like Lincoln Tunnel, Gov't Cut in the old days, etc.) Of course the inevitable happens to me last year: coming through along the navy docks I see what looks like a tug with a barge coming ahead. Deciding to hang close to the barge to keep off of the navy side, I and a couple of other boats head that way. As we get up close, I realized it wasn't a barge but a submarine being towed out to sea. We were remarkably close, unintentionally. I veered off, but a trawler didn't. They were immediately surrounded, and radioed to halt. Not sure if they were boarded or not. I didn't wait to find out. Of couse my office is only 3 blocks from the White House! You'd think I would know better. And yes, we walked/ran on 9/11.

 

[John Nantz]

Roll Out Jib - Great Idea

Great idea Paul! (geting back on topic even if only briefly) Properly trimmed a boat can beat to weather under jib alone pretty well and like you mentioned it can be deployed in seconds - just what is needed in this kind of situation where every second counts. In the Knapps Narrows case with an adverse current the jib would help buy a bit of time that wasn't available without it and if not save the day maybe buy enough time to allow one to deploy the anchor.A situation like this makes the problem with a light-weight anchor system more apparent. The typical recreational boat anchor tends to be selected according to manufacturers recommendations for use in, say, 25 to 30 knots, and standardly, per ABYC, would have around 6 to 12 feeet of chain. The problem is, in a pinch, this setup isn't necessarily going to set right away and perhaps not well enough. If one had at least the next heavier weight anchor with significantly (2x to 3x) more chain then the chances of it setting faster is greatly increased.Sure, a heavier anchor will cost more and add more weight to the bow, but it can help one avoid a catastrophy and can also help one to sleep better, so to that extent it's like good insurance.It seems to me that pilots tend to think "what if" and think about safety a lot. For me it's preferable than having to deal with a fire drill.(Former)C172 N5086R

 

[RichH]

Tricks at Knapps Narrows .....

The western approach to the Knapps Narrows bridge is very narrow (probably only 120 ft wide), the bottom there in the 'channel' is well 'scoured' hard-pan/marl ... so an anchor probably isnt going to be much use. On both sides of the channel just before the bridge are two 'buldges' in the waterway (one buldge into a restaurant on the south side and one into a fuel dock/marina on the north side ... that usually get some eddying counter current during the peak flow (imagine a fleur-de-lis). Its usually best to wait in the middle of one of the eddies for the bridge to open. Notwithstand, for a boat with a tiller one could simply 'scull' the boat over to the side OR (without a tiller) set the boat diagonally across the current and let the flow 'sail' the boat out of the current (hopefully) into one of the countercurrent eddies. Unfurling the genoa and running the boat hard aground on the side, then dropping the anchor would 'work', once to the side of the flow, then anchor in the silt ... and hope to hell it holds. .... beats the hell out of running into a bascule bridge with the flow keeping you 'pinned'. Why the bridge tender didnt open the bridge .... if the rigging gets caught as the bridge deck is going 'up' .... somebody IS going to get hurt.