differences in ease of control

[Chris Patterson]

Simply from what I'm reading, with zero contention, the owners of Catalina 22's are telling you the same thing. I have had three C22's. And countless bigger keel boats. For the exception that they both float, and they both sail, that's really about the only similarity. And I don't mean to play 'big-shot' about the things, but number 2 Cat had a crew on it that was literally bloodthirsty. Sailed the living DOG S*** out of it more miles than any 45 dock queens make in their lifetime. The boat will not steer itself, UNLESS you spend every minute of your time tending sail. Which is the trade off. You are pulling strings, or pulling wood.

Unless again. You have some other means of steering the boat. Either manually, electronically, hydraulically, nuclear power, or a deal with the devil. Pick.

(Oh yeah, thanks Stu. I think that's the first I've heard THAT word. Others maybe, not that).

 

[Joe]

You need to trim your sails so the boat is balanced. Then you'll just need a light touch on the tiller. The recent discussion on steering with sails only will enlighten you.

 

[Sandy Stone]

I think some of us are talking at cross purposes here. Almost any boat can be trimmed to sail itself upwind, as long as the helm is locked down. With the helm free, it's a whole different story. Also, most boats cannot be trimmed to sail themselves off the wind. It has to do with positive or negative feedback in response to a small course change.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

LOL- sorry of I ruffled any feathers, but you can't see what folks "used to sail"

The Cat 22 is a swing keel boat, NOT a centerboarder. The keel is intended to be put down, and LEFT down. it's a ballasted keel. Which turns it into a very narrow fin, and a spade rudder, effectively. Quick response, but needs helm attention.

And it seems Chris Patterson is saying pretty much the same- WORLDS of difference 'twixt a 20, 21, 22 footer and a bigger, heavier boat.

Hey- I used to crew on a 50 foot (on deck) Schooner. We would tie a HUGE stuffed pink panther to the tiller and go sit on the fore cabin- caused LOTS of double takes- but that boat would sail for hours with the helm free.

I lived aboard and cruised a 35 foot trimaran- IT would sail along with the wheel unattended. For a bit.

But those are far bigger boats


And as I said earlier- sail the boat and enjoy it for what what is- a great little sailboat

And hang on to the tiller. Grin

 

[Anonymous 121765]

One reason for your question stands out to me.

You sail a C22 & your asking why the 46 footer seemed tamed?
I cannot remember seeing a 46 footer without an autopilot in years.

Keel type & shape also has a lot to do with unattended steadiness on course.
I had a C22, and it is a tender boat to sail. Weight changes, like just moving around will change sailing & tracking characteristics.

And, by your question, I'm sensing you may be looking to move up in size in the future.
That would be KOOL.

CR

 

[Kermit]

On my 310 every now and then when sailing up wind, if I get the sails trimmed just right I can let go of the wheel (it has neutral helm) and the boat will sail itself. Wind picks up it turns an RCH into the wind, wind slacks off a little it bears away an RCH always keeping on the general course. Just about magical.

What is an RCH?

 

[TLW]

While technically correct that the C22 is a swing-keel boat - much as the Venture 23 that I mentioned - and as with many boats of the period, I used the term "centerboard" generically - perhaps incorrectly so, to differentiate from fin keel or full keel. And, certainly, from a manufacturers' liability point of view, they should be left down, particularly in heavy weather. That being said, it has been common practice, particularly in Catalina 22s and 25s (PHRF racing) to raise the centerboard downwind. There may even be a rule now against that. I have been out of the racing loop for awhile.

I would not recommend raising the swing keel, but still know others (including Catalina dealers) speaking of how much faster the C25 swing keel was going downwind with the keel raised when compared to the C25 fin keel. And raising, that is moving the swing-keel aft, even a few inches can markedly affect the CE/CLR balance.

This whole thread has digressed (deteriorated?) from the intent of the original poster who merely wanted to reduce his tiller pressure a little which brings us full circle to my original comment - Sail trim.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

T,

I agree with you pal. I sailed my C22 mostly in Tampa Bay. The current was the biggest problem. Another was the hull shape....sort of like the bottom of a bathtub.

Centerboard down, my leeway was less, but that damn current just kept pushing me off my rum line.

One thing I liked about the swing keel & soft sand/mud bottoms in my area, was that you didn't need a depth gauge. There was a soft landing, fired up the O'board, cranked up the swing keel & powered right off.

Funny, one nite sail and going aground, the Heineken must have interrupted our thought processes as prudent sailors & my tiller/rudder lifted off its fitting & went solo. There I was, playing the hero (in front of the girls) & swimming after my wander-lasting rudder in darkness. But, we both survived, thus a happy ending.

CR

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

What is an RCH?

a red hair from someplace

 

[rpwillia]

Explanation

What is an RCH?

A Royal Hair - finer than most and not generally exposed to public view.

 

[Brian S]

I went through a bit of tuning with my O'day 192. I think I have the rake of the rig pretty well set, with a bit of weather helm (perhaps that magic 3º number?) I started out tuning, and thought I had good helm balance, until I realized there was lee helm as the wind got up. Yeesh, that's not cool. Sure, I went in and loosened the forestay, and tightened the uppers and backstay (non-adjustable backstay) to rake the mast back a bit, and give some weather helm.

I also have a Wavefront Marine Tiller Clutch on my transom hung rudder. I doubt you could have a transom hung rudder that wouldn't veer if you let go of it.

Keeping in mind that it's an 18.5' boat, I have done some fun stuff.

On a close reach in light wind, I have been able to lock the clutch and walk up to the bow, hang on to the forestay, and just watch the boat for at least a few minutes.

On a broad reach or run, I can lock the clutch, and stand on the coaming or seat, and move to the other seat or coaming, to induce lean and steer her. (I do that on the 15' daysailer as well)

As far as sail trim for balance, most newer sailors over trim their sails. "When in doubt, let it out." Or, study Don Guilette's sail trim book and watch your telltales like a hawk.

You can also just use main sail trim. If she keeps rounding up, let the main out a little, and the jib will blow it off some. Or the reverse. I find I have a lot of fun playing with this type of stuff, considering I get to sail on a lake which is seldom rough enough to have waves pushing the boat around.

Brian