Diesel vs. Propane

Jackdaw · Feb 2, 2012

OK disclosure it not on my boat, but next to us. They have Wallas stove/heater. It pretty amazing. Cooks well, no smell, runs forever, and heats the cabin to boot. I'd look into it.

http://www.wallas.ca/www.wallas.ca/Marine_Heating_&_Cooking.html

Ed Schenck · Feb 2, 2012

Have you decided if you need or want an oven? I have found that we eat very well, probably too well, with just the cooktop. Cannot comment further because I never planned to be where it was cold enough to need a powerful heater. When it was in the thirty's on my last cruise clothes and sleeping bags were adequate. Where we needed heat, in the cockpit, an expensive heater would not have helped.

Mathurin · Feb 2, 2012

We use the original kerosene range on Mathurin2. A kerosene oven has the advantage it can burn a few types of fuel, so it's more flexible. If you think you are going to end up in remote areas where propane will be harder to find, consider kerosene. If you want ease of use, a good smelling cabin, forget about kerosene. If I where you, I would forget the Idea of using Diesel all togheter, IMAO diesel should never be used a fuel for a burner, it's far too dirty and clogs burner way to fast to be reliable. Propane is a lot more user friendly, you don't have to preheat, pressurise the system, etc. and the flame is generally more stable and more powerfull.

Jim Legere · Feb 2, 2012

While I realize that most sailors opt for the convenience of propane over the inherent safety of diesel and kerosene, I choose not to have it on my boat. I realize I am in a minority. Its even getting hard to find parts for my old kerosene stove and heater (until someone in China realizes there is a market for those parts ;-). I do have one or two small camping cylinders of propane on board for the BBQ - they reside in open air or the self-draining anchor locker. But propane in the cabin? No thanks! If I ever have to replace the stove and heater I have now, I would opt for the Wallas, mentioned below. I know most modern propane systems are engineered to be "safe" but I also understand what risk management is...and all the implications. If you have ever wondered what a propane explosion on a boat looks like, check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxm3uMy6MPI. BTW, the explosion was caused by two camping cylinders, like I use for my BBQ. Yikes!

gray_penguin · Feb 2, 2012

Well if that does not make you think twice about using Propane nothing will...
Hard to believe just 2 of those camp stove cylinders could to that to a boat.

Ed Schenck · Feb 3, 2012

I'm not exactly paranoid about propane but see no need. Finding tank space where the bottom can bleed off is very difficult on a Cherubini. I guess there is always rail mount. Or maybe you have seen the Rainbow Chaser site where Gene built custom lockers for the transom. You will find a couple of locker projects in the "Owners Mods".

My two burner alcohol stove kept three crew members well fed for many days on the cruise to Tampa. Despite what some think it is not that much slower than propane. And a whole lot cheaper and safer.

bugaloo · Feb 4, 2012

I agree with Ed, I lived on my boat for 6 months while selling my house and cooked every day on a two burner Kenyon and it cooked fast enough for me. I also worked on a tugboat with a diesel cook stove and the smell in the galley was really bad. I use to pick on the cook about his diesel biscuits. Alcohol burns clean, you can extinguish a fire from it with water, and there is no smell. While re doing the interior I installed a new one. It is a little trouble filling it but the safety is well worth it to me. I have seen what propane can do first hand.

Steve Dion · Feb 4, 2012

Another alternative is a small butane stove. These things are amazing. I can boil a kettle of water (probably 1qt) in less than 5 minutes. These stove are cheap and the fuel is easy to store. These stoves typically put out 8,000 to 16,000 btu's. Some of them come with carry cases for easy storage. These stoves can be purchased for $15-$65 dollars.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055QMXJK...e=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B0055QMXJK

We hear complaints from some of the lady sailors that they do not like the odor from the alchol stoves. Then we get complaints that some do not feel safe with propane. We hear that sailors with CNG have issues getting their bottles refilled/exchanged. The diesel stoves stink. Kerosene stoves soot up.....

You just need to decide what you can/will live with.

gray_penguin · Feb 4, 2012

I wonder how readily available the Butane canisters are in say the Bahamas and Caribbean?

I have a Propane 2 burner / oven (Gas Systems) that I do not want and have not really researched options yet.

gray_penguin · Feb 4, 2012

I suck at chemistry, but I think Butane is also a "heavier then air" gas and poses the same dangers as Propane. Please let me know if this is wrong.

Bill Roosa · Feb 4, 2012

I'm a fan of CNG but then I have a source which is the big problem for most applications that use it.
I have an oven and would recommend it. A long cruise is going to need bread, pizza, and cookies. You can do that in a dutch oven but it is a pain and it requires more skill to pull off.
There is nothing like the smell of cookies wafting into the cockpit on a nice summer afternoon in a quiet cove.

rardiH36 · Feb 4, 2012

I agree with Steve that the new butane stoves are amazing. Mine heats up a large frying pan quickly for "toasting" the breakfast bagels wonderfully. The stoves are light and compact compared to the previous "Coleman" propane types. And the canisters are much more compact than the propane types.

After researching and then buying a butane stove a couple of years ago, I did opt for a more expensive "marine rated" model because it was advertised also with fuel auto shut-off if the flame goes out, as well as thermal shut-off. Maybe most of these units have both features now?

I remember during my research observing that these things seem to be ubiquitous all around the world. And also they can be standard issue in Europe for smaller cruising sailboats rather than a fixed propane stove. So I would expect that the butane canisters would be available in the Caribbean. But certainly double-check. I've seen these type of units used several times by caterers and also at large hotels when for instance a group wants freshly cooked food as part of an outside garden party buffet. My local ACE hardware stocks the canisters.

I do recall the mentioned concern that the butane is heavier than air. I haven't really come up with a permanent solution, but I don't keep the canisters in the cabin or in the aft cockpit lockers. Instead I am putting them in a corner of my anchor locker where the water drain hose has a constant down-slope to the exterior. And the anchor locker hatch also is far from air tight, so lots of natural ventilation. Each canister is wrapped in its own plastic bag. But not tightly sealed, so if a leak occurs the vapors can escape. So far, the canisters have stayed totally rust free. But I don't use the anchor much and also the San Francisco area is a low humidity place.

Here's a pic of my "galley". The stove fits securely into the not used second sink. Also to be a little safer, I place a heat shield next to it.

gray_penguin · Feb 4, 2012

Rardi - That stove looks a lot more durable then the ones I have seen, what brand / modal is that one?

As far as Bill's comment on bread, I try not to eat breads and cookies. When I do eat bread it is typically Flat Breads and they are made in a skillet. I know I am most likely not normal in that eating habit

Steve Dion · Feb 4, 2012

Not to diminish the concerns about butanes explosive capabilities, you are only going to be looking a 8-12 oz. of butane if the can was full. This hardly compares to a 5 gal. or larger tank of propane leaking into your bilge.

The canisters for these stoves can be purchased for as little as $2 - $3 per can. Depending on what you are cooking I would assume you are going to get a week or so out of a canister. If you are going to good a pot of stew/soup ect., you would probably be better off using your regular on-board stove. For 5-10 cooking solutions these stoves can't be beat.

rardiH36 · Feb 4, 2012

G-P

The model is Bright Spark BS-100:

1) The official website -- http://brightspark.eu/index.php?page=product_bs100-102 and http://www.seawardproducts.com/BS100.htm

2) Also available on this sites SailboatOwners.com store -- http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?810

Price seems to have come down a bit since my purchase a couple of years ago -- and now includes a couple of accessories.

DougonOrion · Feb 4, 2012

I always felt you should take explosion risks seriously, particularly with Propane and the like. The small butane stoves are nice, but there is plenty of fuel to blow up a normal sized boat. That said, lots of people are willing to face the risk.

I bought my H33 1977 about 5 years ago, and the propane system need attention. By the time i looked at replacing the locker and propane plumbing, giving the stove the attention it needed, and adding cabin heat that i wanted, i found i was into a lot of money. So i figured i'd consider other less-explosive options. I really wasnt into a portable appliances, or refilling fuel tanks, so alcohol was out. Every one i know who has had traditional diesel appliances has complained about smell and soot, so i struck them off the list. I was left with Wallas, and i decided to try it out, even though the price tag was serious. I installed a twin burner 85DU with blower lid to supply my cabin heat. I decided to go without an oven, given the price, and the fact that my wife reminded me that we only used the oven once in 3 years to cook frozen pizza. I spent a lot of time on the installation, running the exhaust out through the transom. It looks great, cooks great, and heats the cabin wonderfully. Fuel usage is neglible, and battery drain is amazingly low. And i never worry about blowing up

I have only one complaint - i have a minor odor issue, largely on startup (nothing like traditional desiel). I'm still working with the dealer on it. I'm planning on posting the details of the installation and some pictures at some point, once i have the problem resolved.

sandpiper10471 · Feb 5, 2012

Using any liquid or gas stove fuel will put humidity, lots of it, in the cabin unless, like the Wallace, it exhausts overboard. Then you get mildew and mold problems. Good diesel stoves also vent overboard. I wouldn't use a regular alcohol, kerosene, butane or diesel stove for heat without some sort of chimney.

okanogan mike · Feb 7, 2012

Hi Fred V. I dont think any one has mentioned heat from your engine. Hot water from your cooling system through a rad and fan work very well. Only drawback is your engine has to run. Not so bad if your cruising. I also have a wallace cooktop/blower system. Its truly to small to heat my 36 up. It also has a small odor when first started and I dont think the manafacture has a solution to this. If I was to start from scratch I would look into a deisel hot water heater and plumb my vessel with hose and rad/fans. On my choice of repowering your 37 go yanmar! 27 hp min, easy to work on and parts avail everywhere!! Good luck and have fun.

Diesel vs. Propane

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