My 2gm20f Yanmar diesel is difficult to start. New Battery and starter motor installed. I hold the starter button for about 15-20 seconds, the engine chugs and chugs, gives a little purr, spits out black smoke and then begins to get compression and then runs perfectly for the rest of the day??? Next morning the same problem. Thanks for any suggestions. Lewis
Diesel Starting Problems
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mixing elbow
Try the easiest fixes first: the air filter, the fuel-water separator, fuel filter(s). But it sounds like your mixing elbow is clogged. We have had the same engine since 1999 on our 1986 31': we have replaced the elbow two times! I honestly think the best solution is to replace the whole system, from manifold to rubber exhaust hose. It makes no sense to try to 'clean' that elbow, just bite the bullet, pay the tourist price to Yanmar supplier for your zip code and get sailing. The learning curve on the job is steep: all day the first time (just the elbow), then 4 hours for the modular replacement of all three pipes. It is dirty, finger-nubbing, tight, work prone to iatragenic damage, but worth the peace of mind. Joe
Try the easiest fixes first: the air filter, the fuel-water separator, fuel filter(s). But it sounds like your mixing elbow is clogged. We have had the same engine since 1999 on our 1986 31': we have replaced the elbow two times! I honestly think the best solution is to replace the whole system, from manifold to rubber exhaust hose. It makes no sense to try to 'clean' that elbow, just bite the bullet, pay the tourist price to Yanmar supplier for your zip code and get sailing. The learning curve on the job is steep: all day the first time (just the elbow), then 4 hours for the modular replacement of all three pipes. It is dirty, finger-nubbing, tight, work prone to iatragenic damage, but worth the peace of mind. Joe
Sounds like a compression problem
I think you daignosed your own porblem. The valves are OK as the engine runs good after it gets started but the rings may have some ware. They use an oil film to help maintain the seal and that tends to drain away after a few hours. Does the enging start up OK after it gets warm? Does the engine start up OK after being used and sitting overnight? The black smoke is just the unburned fuel burning off after the 15-20 seconds of cranking.
I think you daignosed your own porblem. The valves are OK as the engine runs good after it gets started but the rings may have some ware. They use an oil film to help maintain the seal and that tends to drain away after a few hours. Does the enging start up OK after it gets warm? Does the engine start up OK after being used and sitting overnight? The black smoke is just the unburned fuel burning off after the 15-20 seconds of cranking.
Relax
Lewis, You spend 15 to 20 seconds starting your diesel engine, then it runs fine all day? Relax! Think of it as dial up rather than cable internet service. Let your Yanmar be fussy for 15 seconds and then enjoy the rest of your day.
Lewis, You spend 15 to 20 seconds starting your diesel engine, then it runs fine all day? Relax! Think of it as dial up rather than cable internet service. Let your Yanmar be fussy for 15 seconds and then enjoy the rest of your day.
Word Smith
Okay, I have to admit (iatragenic) was new to me. What does "iatrogenic" mean? Iatros means physician in Greek, and -genic, meaning induced by, is derived from the International Scientific Vocabulary. Combined, of course, they become iatrogenic, meaning physician-induced. Iatrogenic disease is obviously, then, disease which is caused by a physician. So . . . . perhaps this was not the term you were after?
Okay, I have to admit (iatragenic) was new to me. What does "iatrogenic" mean? Iatros means physician in Greek, and -genic, meaning induced by, is derived from the International Scientific Vocabulary. Combined, of course, they become iatrogenic, meaning physician-induced. Iatrogenic disease is obviously, then, disease which is caused by a physician. So . . . . perhaps this was not the term you were after?
Fuel leak down.
Lewis: I would look for a fuel leak down problem. If this does not happen after the first start, I would think you are not getting fuel pressure to the injectors. The mixing elbow problem usually leads to overheating. Are you advancing the throttle when you try a cold start? You should try moving the throttle lever to 1/2 to 3/4 throttle when cold starting.
Lewis: I would look for a fuel leak down problem. If this does not happen after the first start, I would think you are not getting fuel pressure to the injectors. The mixing elbow problem usually leads to overheating. Are you advancing the throttle when you try a cold start? You should try moving the throttle lever to 1/2 to 3/4 throttle when cold starting.
Come on guys
On cool to cold mornings, my Yanmar does not start instantly. Has it ever? No. Am I concerned? No. Can live with 20 seconds of delayed gratification when it's cold outside? Yes.
On cool to cold mornings, my Yanmar does not start instantly. Has it ever? No. Am I concerned? No. Can live with 20 seconds of delayed gratification when it's cold outside? Yes.
second Phil's question
Does your engine have a glow plug? There will be a separate button to hold in for about 15-20 seconds to heat plug before fuel can ignite in a cold engine. After this, heat of compression and warm engine makes restarting easier and quicker.
Does your engine have a glow plug? There will be a separate button to hold in for about 15-20 seconds to heat plug before fuel can ignite in a cold engine. After this, heat of compression and warm engine makes restarting easier and quicker.
I agree with Arron...
I have a Yanmar 2GMF in my H31. This engine has no glo plugs, no preheat. Above 65 degrees or so and all is peachy. If its below 60 degrees I fully expect it to be hesitant to start. If its below 50 degrees, it can be down right difficult. I can remember waiting too long in October to do winterization tasks and (with a somewhat discharged battery) not being able to start the engine to warm the oil!. That being said, check the battery. Check away on the other maintainance issues suggested by the others. It's good to check the small stuff no matter what, but the mixing elbow is a bigger/uglier job than most. There are other symptoms for a clogged mixing to look for to verify the problem (see the archives), so go there last. See if the hesitation to start changes with the outside temperature.
I have a Yanmar 2GMF in my H31. This engine has no glo plugs, no preheat. Above 65 degrees or so and all is peachy. If its below 60 degrees I fully expect it to be hesitant to start. If its below 50 degrees, it can be down right difficult. I can remember waiting too long in October to do winterization tasks and (with a somewhat discharged battery) not being able to start the engine to warm the oil!. That being said, check the battery. Check away on the other maintainance issues suggested by the others. It's good to check the small stuff no matter what, but the mixing elbow is a bigger/uglier job than most. There are other symptoms for a clogged mixing to look for to verify the problem (see the archives), so go there last. See if the hesitation to start changes with the outside temperature.
Consider this
Original post is from City Island, which I assume is NYC. Still pretty chilly these days, and the engine has no warming plug. Yanmar advised in Deisel School using a hairdryer for 10 minutes. Hook up a 4-inch piece of flexible hose 2 inches ID to the dryer and stick it on the airhorn of the engine. This warms up the oil, which in turn makes it easier to to fire up the thing. Alternative is over-cranking and filling the muffler with water, which in turn can backflow into the cylinders. So when doing the crank, keep the raw water intake closed until she turns over. Then quickly pull the lever up.
Original post is from City Island, which I assume is NYC. Still pretty chilly these days, and the engine has no warming plug. Yanmar advised in Deisel School using a hairdryer for 10 minutes. Hook up a 4-inch piece of flexible hose 2 inches ID to the dryer and stick it on the airhorn of the engine. This warms up the oil, which in turn makes it easier to to fire up the thing. Alternative is over-cranking and filling the muffler with water, which in turn can backflow into the cylinders. So when doing the crank, keep the raw water intake closed until she turns over. Then quickly pull the lever up.
I second the elbow idea
It is a notorious problem that is an easy fix. You can also get an electric magnetic block heater to warm her up.
It is a notorious problem that is an easy fix. You can also get an electric magnetic block heater to warm her up.
Iatragenic
I stand by my suggestions for the starting problem. I also stand by my word, iatragenic. Yes, it has origins in medicine, but the usage also extends to everyday life: to explain the unintentional damage done by an 'operator' doing damage to parts of a system near the object of his work. What better way to describe the knocking off of a lead wire on the engine or disconnecting some device while engaged in trying to fix another problem? The ham-handed surgeons who explored William McKinley's gunshot wound did enough damage to kill the guy. btw, spellings vary.
I stand by my suggestions for the starting problem. I also stand by my word, iatragenic. Yes, it has origins in medicine, but the usage also extends to everyday life: to explain the unintentional damage done by an 'operator' doing damage to parts of a system near the object of his work. What better way to describe the knocking off of a lead wire on the engine or disconnecting some device while engaged in trying to fix another problem? The ham-handed surgeons who explored William McKinley's gunshot wound did enough damage to kill the guy. btw, spellings vary.
Raw (sea)water in muffler?
Quote: Alternative is over-cranking and filling the muffler with water, which in turn can backflow into the cylinders. So when doing the crank, keep the raw water intake closed until she turns over. Then quickly pull the lever up. :EndQuote Yowzers, is this a common concern? I'm not new to diesels but new to diesels for sail. We have a newly rebuilt Volvo penta 2002, f/w cooled (with raw water radiator, of course) Am I immune to the raw water in muffler or no? Great thread, thx all
Quote: Alternative is over-cranking and filling the muffler with water, which in turn can backflow into the cylinders. So when doing the crank, keep the raw water intake closed until she turns over. Then quickly pull the lever up. :EndQuote Yowzers, is this a common concern? I'm not new to diesels but new to diesels for sail. We have a newly rebuilt Volvo penta 2002, f/w cooled (with raw water radiator, of course) Am I immune to the raw water in muffler or no? Great thread, thx all
exhaust pressure
The pressure of the exhaust is what forces the water out of the water lock and the exhaust pipe. Until the engine starts there is no pressure but the impeller is turning and pumping salt water into the water lock. Since there is no pressure to force the water out of the system but more and more water is being pumped in, the water lock fills and then flows back down to the engine through the mixing elbow then through the valves and fills the cylindars. At this point, since water does not compress, lots of things break and you are pretty much F---ed. Usually MAJOR overhaul. Most diesel mechanics will tell you that this happens often. If your engine doesn't start in 15 seconds or so STOP cranking it and do what you need to do to empty the water lock.
The pressure of the exhaust is what forces the water out of the water lock and the exhaust pipe. Until the engine starts there is no pressure but the impeller is turning and pumping salt water into the water lock. Since there is no pressure to force the water out of the system but more and more water is being pumped in, the water lock fills and then flows back down to the engine through the mixing elbow then through the valves and fills the cylindars. At this point, since water does not compress, lots of things break and you are pretty much F---ed. Usually MAJOR overhaul. Most diesel mechanics will tell you that this happens often. If your engine doesn't start in 15 seconds or so STOP cranking it and do what you need to do to empty the water lock.
space heater
This spring when cranking during cool temps, I put a space heater blowing into the engine compartment for about 10 minutes. Set the throttle 1/2 way forward. Cranked first turn.
This spring when cranking during cool temps, I put a space heater blowing into the engine compartment for about 10 minutes. Set the throttle 1/2 way forward. Cranked first turn.
Cleaned Mixing Elbo Yesterday
I had a problem starting my 2001 2gm a few years ago, it always was hard starting and black smoke would come out the exhaust once it started and would push the trottle down out came the black smoke also the rpm's would not reach max rpm's. Than one year in the spring start up it would not start at all and so after trying to get a machanicto no luck I took the elbo off and pow it started right up. I now take the mixing elbo off every year and it starts up the first shot every time cold or warm and during the sailing season it runs great better than new. So just try taking the elbo off its four bolts and than try starting it up and just shut it down if it starts.,I don't keep the raw water valve closed any more because it always starts with no problem.
I had a problem starting my 2001 2gm a few years ago, it always was hard starting and black smoke would come out the exhaust once it started and would push the trottle down out came the black smoke also the rpm's would not reach max rpm's. Than one year in the spring start up it would not start at all and so after trying to get a machanicto no luck I took the elbo off and pow it started right up. I now take the mixing elbo off every year and it starts up the first shot every time cold or warm and during the sailing season it runs great better than new. So just try taking the elbo off its four bolts and than try starting it up and just shut it down if it starts.,I don't keep the raw water valve closed any more because it always starts with no problem.
Engine heater
For those of you without glow plugs I found this oil pan heater to replace the factory block heaters on my GM 6.2 diesel trucks at work,price was right and installation was a snap I thought about one for my Westerbeke for those early spring and late fall days that my engine even with glow plus gives me a hard time starting too. The only problem with this kind of heater is getting it under the oil pan,I suppose it could be installed on the side. Great thread
For those of you without glow plugs I found this oil pan heater to replace the factory block heaters on my GM 6.2 diesel trucks at work,price was right and installation was a snap I thought about one for my Westerbeke for those early spring and late fall days that my engine even with glow plus gives me a hard time starting too. The only problem with this kind of heater is getting it under the oil pan,I suppose it could be installed on the side. Great thread
Heat Plus cold Start device
On my Volvo MD11C which has no glow plugs I've found that warm air directed at the air intake helps immensely. Also the volvo has a lever that when depressed adds additional fuel to help with cold starting. A strong battery and good starter to turn over the engine at a good rate also helps. I assume that the Yanmar has a simular cold start device.
On my Volvo MD11C which has no glow plugs I've found that warm air directed at the air intake helps immensely. Also the volvo has a lever that when depressed adds additional fuel to help with cold starting. A strong battery and good starter to turn over the engine at a good rate also helps. I assume that the Yanmar has a simular cold start device.
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