Diesel heater

[dsmoll]

Hey everyone. I wanted to get your opinions on bulkhead heaters...diesel in particular.

we currently we have a balmar 120 diesel heater that I found on Craigslist for $100 and installed myself. It is AMAZING at heating our boat and has yet to need much maintenance or cleaning.

My question though...I can sit in the cabin all day with the heater going and I feel great. No headache, nausea. However, within minutes (literally minutes) of my girlfriend stepping down the companionway she has a headache and feels “sick to her stomach” to the point that she has to be outside.

we purchased a nice handheld Carbon Monoxide detector to look for any leaks. I checked the chimney vent outside and picked up a nice hefty reading but couldn’t get a reading above 5ppm in the cabin anywhere.

I do smell a “hot metal” smell, similar to a motorcycle exhaust when the heater is going but definitely don’t smell diesel fumes or anything from the heater. It’s a little frustrating because of how much work I put into plumbing the diesel heater, but I’m on the verge of just ordering a brand new Newport solid fuel heater. Propane is out of the question as we keep very little onboard and I think Kate would have the same reaction to propane burning as our current heater.

has anyone had similar issues with this? Do I have some sort of disgusting immunity to diesel fumes? I also work on tugboats in the PNW, so maybe I’m just used to the stink.

 

[Tally Ho]

Well, I really want to make a joke about your GF being allergic to (or sick of) you...but that wouldn’t be very nice

Sorry, I don’t have any experience or advice that is helpful.

Greg

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Did you give the handheld CO detector time to come down from its testing of the heater's outside vent ?

If you're showing a steady 5 ppm CO in the cabin, there's a leak in the heater. You should have 0 ppm as there is nothing in you cabin to generate CO, unless a boat is sitting on your transom with its engine running. I would suggest NEVER lighting it again.

As far as a new, diesel heater goes, I don't think you'd have any gassing problems. If you have any form of heater on board, I'd recommend a permanent wall CO detector and use the handheld to sniff out the heater at the start of every season. CO in a boat is not highly thought of.

Thank your girlfriend for her sensitive nose.

 

[dsmoll]

Did you give the handheld CO detector time to come down from its testing of the heater's outside vent ?

If you're showing a steady 5 ppm CO in the cabin, there's a leak in the heater. You should have 0 ppm as there is nothing in you cabin to generate CO, unless a boat is sitting on your transom with its engine running. I would suggest NEVER lighting it again.

As far as a new, diesel heater goes, I don't think you'd have any gassing problems. If you have any form of heater on board, I'd recommend a permanent wall CO detector and use the handheld to sniff out the heater at the start of every season. CO in a boat is not highly thought of.

Thank your girlfriend for her sensitive nose.

The detector was at 0-1 while detecting around the cabin. I was able to get 3-5 when I first started the heater up and held it near the door of the unit itself.

according to the manual, 0-1ppm is normal inside reading. 9ppm is the max according to osha, or whoever comes up with air quality stats. 35ppm is deemed unsafe after 8hrs and 200ppm will give a normal person a headache after 2-3hrs.

so once the heater was running at normal temp for extended times I would only see 0-1ppm on the CO Detector.

 

[dsmoll]

The detector needs 60sec of “sniffing” at each area to get a confirmed reading. So every once in a while I would move the detector to a different area near the heater and all over the cabin. The only spike was on startup and it was only 5ppm.

 

[dsmoll]

Well, I really want to make a joke about your GF being allergic to (or sick of) you...but that wouldn’t be very nice

Sorry, I don’t have any experience or advice that is helpful.

Greg

she’s allergic to quite a few things so diesel isn’t out of the question!

 

[MikeHoncho]

Was your batteries charging and are they vented to the same space you are testing in the cabin? My feeling on this is her nausea is probably from the odor and the CO reading is a red herring . I know the residential CO detectors ( it’s there or not) are pretty accurate but not sure on the metering aspect( numbers). All sensors are susceptible to cross sensitivity. A common one is hydrogen ( charging batteries) some exotic cleaning solvents.

 

[dsmoll]

Was your batteries charging and are they vented to the same space you are testing in the cabin? My feeling on this is her nausea is probably from the odor and the CO reading is a red herring . I know the residential CO detectors ( it’s there or not) are pretty accurate but not sure on the metering aspect( numbers). All sensors are susceptible to cross sensitivity. A common one is hydrogen ( charging batteries) some exotic cleaning solvents.

yes we were on shore power and charging the batteries, but they’re behind a bulkhead in the engine compartment. It seems the headaches are only prevalent with the heater.

ive also heard that CO detectors aren’t great for trace amounts...which I suppose is part of my question. Are some people THAT sensitive to CO? We have a CO alarm that is working but has never gone off and this handheld detector has confirmed my belief it’s maybe not CO and is either some sort of diesel smell from the heater or from the flu, which is all new.

if it takes 2-3hrs of breathing 200ppm to create a headache for the average joe i don’t think someone more sensitive breathing 5ppm continuously could get a headache immediately.

all the flu connections have aluminum tape around them, which is sorta moot because the entire system is under vacuum anyway.

I guess my point is there is no way the cabin is filling with CO. The handheld is sensitive enough to pick up “dangerous” levels. What I’m getting at is...does anyone else have a diesel stove that their partner/friends/family complain stinks or causes headaches?

 

[MikeHoncho]

OSHAs PEL is 50 ppm which is 8 hours. I’m not saying the hydrogen would be causing her issues. I’m saying the hydrogen could be giving you a reading. I wouldn’t use a reading on a $50 CO detector to quantify anything other than something is maybe there or not. Then qualify with a real, calibrated piece of equipment. I wouldn’t put anyone in a 200ppm atmosphere of CO knowingly also.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I’ve had a forced air Webasto diesel heater and never had any issues with the very faint odor, which was only on startup. None of my crew, either.
Another solution: New girlfriend?
Edit - Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

 

[dsmoll]

Yes absolutely.

I’ve had a forced air Webasto diesel heater and never had any issues with the very faint odor, which was only on startup. None of my crew, either.
Another solution: New girlfriend?
Edit - Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

Haha never crossed my mind

 

[dsmoll]

OSHAs PEL is 50 ppm which is 8 hours. I’m not saying the hydrogen would be causing her issues. I’m saying the hydrogen could be giving you a reading. I wouldn’t use a reading on a $50 CO detector to quantify anything other than something is maybe there or not. Then qualify with a real, calibrated piece of equipment. I wouldn’t put anyone in a 200ppm atmosphere of CO knowingly also.

The detector we have was $150 and seems to be pretty sensitive.

 

[Tom J]

The "hot smell" you noticed from the flue and heater seem to be normal, and any diesel equipped boat will have a hint of diesel in the air. The question is, did your girlfriend have any reaction in the boat before the heater was installed? Many people are super sensitive to trace amounts of chemicals in the air. Perhaps whatever is burning off the heater will dissipate with time.
I worked on a commercial vessel for a few years that had four diesels and a 2,000 gal. fuel tank. After a day or so on board, I didn't notice any diesel smell. I almost got sick once, though, when that big ass fuel tank leaked 500 gals. of diesel into the bilge, and we had to pump it out by hand.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Sounds like the symptoms are just from the smell more than any possible reaction to the CO. Is the boat rocking, even slightly, when she has the symptoms, as if the smell is exacerbating some mild sea sickness? Has she ever been around anything like a diesel contaminated rag elsewhere and had symptoms?

If you don’t want any risk of smells at all you could look into hydronic heating. Probably not the cheapest but it would completely separate the heat source from the living areas.

 

[dsmoll]

The "hot smell" you noticed from the flue and heater seem to be normal, and any diesel equipped boat will have a hint of diesel in the air. The question is, did your girlfriend have any reaction in the boat before the heater was installed? Many people are super sensitive to trace amounts of chemicals in the air. Perhaps whatever is burning off the heater will dissipate with time.
I worked on a commercial vessel for a few years that had four diesels and a 2,000 gal. fuel tank. After a day or so on board, I didn't notice any diesel smell. I almost got sick once, though, when that big ass fuel tank leaked 500 gals. of diesel into the bilge, and we had to pump it out by hand.

Wow that’s a bad day. We recently had to crawl into the diesel tanks on one of our tugs to clean them out. That DEFINITELY gave me a headache by the end of it. They had aired out for a week and were still pretty stinky.

 

[MikeHoncho]

The detector we have was $150 and seems to be pretty sensitive. View attachment 191692

The calibration gas bottles I have to calibrate a sensor like that is about $400. $150 is a drop I. The bucket when considering meters.

 

[dsmoll]

Sounds like the symptoms are just from the smell more than any possible reaction to the CO. Is the boat rocking, even slightly, when she has the symptoms, as if the smell is exacerbating some mild sea sickness? Has she ever been around anything like a diesel contaminated rag elsewhere and had symptoms?

If you don’t want any risk of smells at all you could look into hydronic heating. Probably not the cheapest but it would completely separate the heat source from the living areas.

That’s what I’m thinking is a hypersensitivity to smell that causes headaches. She definitely gets seasick but at the dock the boat is barely moving. However I’ve met folks that even stepping foot on a boat is enough to start their inner ear dance.

I can definitely tell you she can’t stand when I come home stinking like diesel! I was hoping the smell was maybe from the flu but the reality is it’s probably just a faint diesel smell that I can’t smell but she can. Maybe trying the sold fuel heater will change things. Having the cabin smell like woodsmoke is hopefully more acceptable to her ‍

 

[dsmoll]

The calibration gas bottles I have to calibrate a sensor like that is about $400. $150 is a drop I. The bucket when considering meters.

ok thank you mike. Maybe I should have someone professionally meter the boat to find out what the CO levels are.