Diesel Filters

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higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,704
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Most of us use a Ronco or similar filter in front of the manufacture's filter. The Ronco filter has smaller openings than the manufacture's filter - so why bother with the manufacture's filter since the ronco will have already filtered out any impurities that the second filter is designed to catch?
 
May 6, 2004
916
Hunter 37C Seattle
In case the primary fails with a hole or tear in the element, secondary is just a back up and also :redface: whatever Mainsail says.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Huh??

Huh ??? Ronco? Don't they make salad shooters??:D The nominal ratings for the three big engine makers on engine filters is as follows:

Universal 8 micron
Westerbeke 3 micron
Yanmar 3 micron

It is generally not advised to use anything less than a 10 micron as a primary filter! Most boaters will use a 30 micron primary in a Racor though with the Westerbeke's and Yanmar engines a 10 micron should be just fine provided you have clean fuel! It is also good to understand that most all manufacturers recommend sequential filtering on all engine installations. Sequential filtering, larger to smaller particles, via filters of differing sizes, has also been scientifically proven better than a single stage fine micron filter stage across industries not just for diesel fuel.

Many industries, including the pharmaceutical industry, employ sequential filtering of water which has to meet stringent standards set by the FDA for the manufacturing of the drugs. Whether you are filtering fuel or water sequential filtering is always preferred. I actually sequentially filter the water on our boat and we drink right out of the tanks and it tastes great!

Personally for me if own an engine with an 8 or 10 secondary I use a 30 micron primary. If I own an engine with a 2 or 3 secondary I use a 10 micron primary..

A 2 micron!
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,334
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
To be clear, regardless of the brand name, it is always advisable to use a "larger" primary filter compared with the secondary filter precisely to avoid the situation you describe.
 
Jan 1, 2008
89
Islander 36 Salem MA
Re: Huh??

Maine Sail please tell me that is not your filter. I have changed many a filter with lots of hours / launches /water taxis ect. and never saw one that bad !
 

RAD

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Jun 3, 2004
2,330
Catalina 30 Bay Shore, N.Y.
That picture looks like the floor cement you use to level a concrete floor or marine tex
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Maine Sail please tell me that is not your filter. I have changed many a filter with lots of hours / launches /water taxis ect. and never saw one that bad !
Not mine but another boaters! Mine are usually fairly clean when they come out. Believe it or not that engine was still actually running just not much over idle...
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Dirty filter

If that filter came out of Mainesail's boat, it was only because he had just purchased the boat. Maine would never, ever get caught with a filter that looked anywhere near that bad. I do agree completely with what Maine said about filters. It makes no sense at all to have two filters of the same size. If they are both the same size, there is virtually nothing for the secondary to do. If the primary is smaller, the secondary is totally useless. I have a Yanmar 3gm, which has the standard Yanmar 3 micron filter on the engine. In front of that I have two primary filters. A 30 micron, with water seperator, followed up by a 10 micron. This works very well, and the only time the 3 micron Yanmar filter is changed is during regularly scheduled maintenance. It has never clogged up, and always comes out looking clean as a whistle when changed. And usually the 10micron does too. The 30 catches, I would guess, over 90% of any contamination in the fuel.
 
Jun 1, 2005
772
Pearson 303 Robinhood, ME
I just had the yard do the work for me on my Yanmar 2GM.... noticed on the bill they put in a 2 micron in the primary Racor.

What would you do?
 
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
Filters...

How many times have I gotta tell ya, don't put MarineTex in your fuel system....:dance:
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,334
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
I just had the yard do the work for me on my Yanmar 2GM.... noticed on the bill they put in a 2 micron in the primary Racor.

What would you do?

If it were me, I'd ask them why. The answer might be telling.
In all likelihood, they will realize their mistake and do it correctly with the proper size filter on their own initiative.
 
Sep 25, 2008
544
Bristol 43.3 Perth Amboy
Along with filtration....

Don't underestimate the value of pumping out the bottom of your diesel tank to get rid of the crud at the source. This is part of our annual spring ritual. Is this a common practice among the members?

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but if you can decrease the burden on the filters, all the better. When I bought my Mirage 27, the tank had significant crud on the bottom. I pumped out all the diesel and put kerosene in and pumped it, repeated about 5x until no more crud.
 

higgs

.
Aug 24, 2005
3,704
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
That sounds like an awful lot of work to do every year. What do you do with the diesel and kerosene you pump out?
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,334
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
bottom pumping of tank

It seems to me that there are two alternatives when it comes to pumping the tank:
1. Assuming the fuel is relatively clean, pumping a sample of the bottom allows one to inspect the quality of the fuel and determine if any water is present. I do this every spring by taking about a cup full of fuel using the same pump I use to change the oil. Takes less than 5 minutes and provides some reasonable certainty.
2. Assuming the fuel is filthy and crud adheres to the tank walls, pumping the entire contents (and then cleaning the walls) seems like the only good option but should probably be reserved for only worst-case scenarios, however, I'm not sure how kerosene can effectively clean the tank walls, particularly as it's essentially the same as diesel fuel in this context.
 
Sep 25, 2008
544
Bristol 43.3 Perth Amboy
Cleaning bottom of tank

1. I dispose of the fuel/kerosene at a disposal facility at my Marina. They collect waste fuel.

2. I used kerosene since prior experience indicated it was good for "degunking" things. It seemed to work to clean the fuel/water separator first.

3. My plan was to remove the tank if the kerosene did not work.

4. Each yr, I pump out about 0.5 to 1 gallon of the bottom of the tank.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
To specifically answer the original posters statement/comment: The purpose of the 'primary stage' (first filter in the series) is to *extend the service life* of the following filter in the series. Typically in (the filtration) industry, most pre-filters are at 5X the µM retention value of the next filter in series. Using a 'prefilter' in this manner 'may' extend the life of the 'next in series' filter by a factor of ~2 to 3X.

Fuel oil filters are rated as a 'nominal' rating ... which in 'filter-speak' means that a 2 or a 10 or 30µM filter only retains approx 90-97% (by weight) of the particle size indicated by the 'rating' ..... the ratings are 'arbitrary' and assigned by each filter manufacturer, etc. A 2µM filter can by definition of 'nominal' ratings, pass a basketball and still be rated at 2µM.

The probably 'most damaging' particle size in a diesel engine is 20µM. That 2µM filter on a 100% absolute retention basis 'may' be passing particles as large as 15µM (to a small weight %).

"Is a smaller retention size filter better? "My OEM system came with a 10µM final stage filter, should I change to a 2µM?" The clear answer is: usually NOT!!!!!
Here's why: It takes 5 times as much 'work' to pass the same amount of fluid through a 2µM filter than a 10µM filter (assuming that the same size/surface area filter cartridge was used). That 'work' will be represented by higher 'differential pressures' across the smaller retention rated filter .... which means that the velocity of fluid 'through' the filter will be about 5 times faster .... driving the debris very deeply into the filter media with the typical result of clogging the filter *5 times faster* than if you kept the OEM 10µM!!!!!! 5 times as much work will apply to your engine's lift pump .... possibly at long term causing the lift pump diaphragm to prematurely rupture/leak, etc.

So, if you want to 'filter down a step .... say from 10µM down to 2µM .... then the CORRECT methodology would be to *****increase the surface area***** of the 2µM to 5 times the surface area (look at the filter manufacturers website for the surface area details.

Each filter of this 'fuel oil type' also will capture particles much smaller than the indicated 'rating'. The particles typically found in fuel oil systems are mostly 'soft and deformable' and will upon higher differential pressures across the filter .... simply extrude through the filter, downstream and into the 'next' filter. (These deformable particles/gels, etc. do not burn very well and are the probable cause of 'coke' / blockage in the exhaust system - buts that's another story'.)

Filters only remove what comes down stream from the tank. If the tank is fouled, dont depend on a filter to do the particle removal job (about ~15-25 grams of 'crud' per typical Racor canister) for very long. The obvious reply is that if you are experiencing 'filter problems' (short filter life, etc.), the answer lies at the end of a long handled scrubbing brush ..... get your arms into and inside the tank and clean the residue of resins produced by funguses (Cladosporium Resinae is the typical) and bacterial slimes from the tank walls. A clean tank wont 'grow' particles (by agglomeration), and a ***clean tank*** rarely needs a fuel filter to be changed as an 'emergency'. If you have a tank that fouls easily, or are or have experienced 'filter problems', then the very best advice I can offer is begin a routine cleaning schedule to mechanically SCRUB the internals of your tank on at least an every 3-4 year interval.

How do I know that I have a fouled tank? Drain/remove some of the fuel from the tank, put it into a clear clean glass and hold the glass with oil between your eyeball and very strong white light; if there is any HAZE noted in the oil ... then you probably have a fouled tank. Polishing the fuel wont clean the tank; the only way is to get inside with a long handled scrub brush or power washer wand and remove the resins and dead bacteria from the tank walls. What you dont want to do is make yourself vulnerable for clogging the filters during an extremely heavy sea state ... like when 'shooting an inlet' etc. and the sloshing tank contents are knocking the crud off the walls and the only way to keep the engine running is to change a filter every 10-15 minutes while you power-puke into the bilge. This will rarely happen if you have a CLEAN tank.

Some hints for a clean tank and rare 'emergency filter change-outs':
Make a schedule (every 3-4 years) to clean out the tank.
Inspect the 'haze quality' of the oil every few months (good to check for 'haze' when taking on fuel from a 'suspect' source).
Keep only the MINIMUM amount of fuel in the tank that you need, plus some reserve.
Do not keep the tank 'topped-off'.
If possible drain ALL the oil from the tank when storing the boat long term (winter, etc.) ... take the fuel home and burn it in your oil furnace.
Buy 'fresh fuel' .... from a 'high turnover' depot that caters to watermen OR jug it in from a 'truckstop' - avoid marinas (that have low fuel 'turnover') whenever possible.

:)
 
Apr 22, 2001
497
Hunter 420 Norfolk, VA
Re: Cleaning bottom of tank

Like "Prime Time", I, too, pump the "crud" off the bottom of my fuel tank about once a year. I access the inside of the tank by removing the the tank sensor. Thru this ~4-5"dia hole I use a 1/4" copper tube (about 4' long) as a "wand" to get to the bottom of the tank, and use the same drill pump that I use to pump out my engine oil. I pump what comes out of the tank into a 5 gal bucket and dispose of it as does "Prime Time".
Last year (the first time I pumped out the tank) I removed almost 3 gals of tan colored "gunk" from the bottom of the tank . This past Summer I pumped out about 1 gal of the same "stuff".
I now see far less of this same "stuff" ending up in the bottom of my Racor.
 
Sep 25, 2008
544
Bristol 43.3 Perth Amboy
Value of pumping

On my dad's boat, his diesel tank lasted 34 yrs. Perkins 4107 engine. No Racor, just the water separator and the fuel filter on the engine. Never once had a clogged filter. The key may have been that he pumped the bottom of the tank every yr, kept the tank full during the winter, always bought diesel from high volume venders, and treated the diesel to inhibit growth.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Onboard fuel polishing

I spent quite a bit of time last winter researching fuel filtering and installing a system in my boat for upcoming cruises to Newfoundland and Labrador where I don't want to have any serious fuel problems.

I found the system so satisfactory after a season of operation that I put up a page about the general concept here:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/FOpolishing.htm

details on my individual installation here:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/StriderFuelSystem.htm

This isn't my invention but put together from ideas collected from others, primarily Rich H who replied above.

Comments and questions welcome.
 
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