Determining Tall or Standard rigging
- Thread starter dailytrek
- Start date
I always thought tall rigs came with a bowsprit.
When I first purchased my boat, it had a bowsprit which I have seen on other tall-rig C30's. I ordered the tall uppers first but found I had a standard rig & the PO added the bowsprit. Talk about cheating, the boat was used as a club racer & he was looking to point tighter up.
An easy method I have used would be to tie a smaller line to the main halyard shackle. Run the shackle to the top & make a mark on the line where it touches the deck @ mast base. pull the halyard back down & just measure the line. If it's longer than the standard height, It's tall.
CR
When I first purchased my boat, it had a bowsprit which I have seen on other tall-rig C30's. I ordered the tall uppers first but found I had a standard rig & the PO added the bowsprit. Talk about cheating, the boat was used as a club racer & he was looking to point tighter up.
An easy method I have used would be to tie a smaller line to the main halyard shackle. Run the shackle to the top & make a mark on the line where it touches the deck @ mast base. pull the halyard back down & just measure the line. If it's longer than the standard height, It's tall.
CR
suggest you look at the boat number, embossed on a metal plate at the main hatch entrance, and ask catalina yachts how they made the boat. unless the owner already has the number handy.
Jack,
We almost always agree on principle however this time, let me present my argument pal.
I purchased a nightmare C30 STD rig Mark II in 2000. It was used a club racer with an added-on teak bowsprit. I sailed the boat three years before this failed. It wasn't the bowsprit that failed but rather, the attachment or should I say, the lack of proper attachment.
Three years in & after the attachment failed, I almost lost my mast on a perfect sailing day. By the time I secured all. I shredded my 150. So, I removed the bowsprit & sailed the next two years with a standard luff bow mount. I had a new 150 sail made to the orig. dimensions.
My friend with a C27, 150 & roached main (like mine) studied pointing capability. I could NOT point as high as him without de-powering inside 45°. This was frequently done in flat ICW water in order to gage performance differences.
So, I ordered a fiberglass bowsprit from Catalina and had a glass-man beef-up the bowsprit mounting. Once installed, I found I could sail 5° to 7° closer to windward than with my non-bowsprit rig.
I can only add that what I have experienced in having a bowsprit "not give you tighten-up & speed", I have to disagree.
I have tested both my non-bowsprit & extended bowsprit luff angle & find the extended luff angle is 4° forward of my non-bowsprit position. Looking at my sailplane from a side view, the headsail & it's position vertically relative to the the main has changed (vertical & forward angle wise).
I believe this gives me additional lift (because of angle) & allows me to point several degrees tighter-to-wind without loosing speed. I have used this against my friend's C27 since adding the bowsprit & now can not only keep up with him in pointing capability but, even pass him in 12 or 15 knots & all in flat ICW seas. I can assure you that he is not only a licensed 100T sailing captain w/aux sail but, he is also an accomplished sailor.
I thus feel I now have an advantage over a non-bowsprit configuration in my class/length. We did not change our sailplanes but rather, ONLY my bowsprit, luff & headsail angle.
I have attached a diagram (both non & bowsprit) to support my findings. Please note that I have rounded off the figures in feet & angle to two decimal places for simplicity.
Hey what the hell, I am getting 4° of lift, my hull has less drag as, her nose is pointing upward close-hauled. Half-a knot is a plus when on a similar tack.......right?
CR
Attachments
In most cases a large overlap does not help to "point higher". A bath tub will point as well as a TP 52. Just it wont get to the same place. Ability to go to windward is directly proportional to the draft. What you have done is balance the boat better. I use a 105 led to tracks on the cabin top with a large roach. I extended the crane to allow fir this. My sheeting angle therefore is much tighter than outside rail. I have neutral helm and perform very quick tacks because there is no overlap. I keep up with boats that owe me20-30 seconds a mile.
The Caribbean almost always has a good breeze and the boat has been set up for single or double handed racing with good results.
The Caribbean almost always has a good breeze and the boat has been set up for single or double handed racing with good results.
This is consistent with these observations:
A very illuminating and interesting discussion on co.com for those of you who might be in the market for a new jib.
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=155362
Please read all three pages. Enjoy.
I agree. A 110 with a full roach main is wonderful setup for working up wind single handed. The full roach main is the key. I would think a bowsprit very beneficial for beating and off wind work... but closehauled it puts more effort opposing the main by moving the CE forward.
Reducing the sheeting angle by moving to an inside track, or barber hauling, is more effective with a less overlapping sail... slot can be reduced without increasing disturbance along the lifting side of the main. A flatter headsail shape can also be induced for increased speed.
A sprit increases the area of the fore triangle, obviously, but it is not clear to me how that can increase pointing ability.
Reducing the sheeting angle by moving to an inside track, or barber hauling, is more effective with a less overlapping sail... slot can be reduced without increasing disturbance along the lifting side of the main. A flatter headsail shape can also be induced for increased speed.
A sprit increases the area of the fore triangle, obviously, but it is not clear to me how that can increase pointing ability.
I believe that the writer is saying that he has a much larger sail area and with the taller mast he is increasing the flow therefore increasing lift. We all know that the taller the rig, the more wind it catches. Aldo the flow up there away from the friction created the water tends to twist more. Giving you the ability to go to windward much better.
PS. I agree with Mortyd on the original question. If you contact Catalina Yachts (not Catalina Direct) they keep very good early paper records on what they sold. They provided me with a scanned copy of the original sales order which listed EVERTHING that my C-30 was ordered with, which is really helpful. Don't know too many manufactures that can dig up an original sales order over 30 years later!
thanks, jrowan; someone got my point.
it's not so much that catalina direct is evil but that catalina yachts is still around and run by people who value customer loyalty. after all, we don't own pearsons or cals and don't need pearson or cal direct.
it's not so much that catalina direct is evil but that catalina yachts is still around and run by people who value customer loyalty. after all, we don't own pearsons or cals and don't need pearson or cal direct.
Some trivia: the Cat 27 was offered with a short bowsprit and larger rig to (minimally) qualify it as a quarter toner under the IOR. The same mod was offered on the Cat 30 to get it to measure out as a half toner under the IOR.
I do not know if either model was competitive racing under that Rule. I always figured that some customers wanted this and with minimal changes they could have what they wanted.
(There has never much factory "customization" of the Catalina line, but in this instance they picked up a few more sales. We have several of these 27's and 30's sailing in our area from the 70's and early 80's.)
L
I do not know if either model was competitive racing under that Rule. I always figured that some customers wanted this and with minimal changes they could have what they wanted.
(There has never much factory "customization" of the Catalina line, but in this instance they picked up a few more sales. We have several of these 27's and 30's sailing in our area from the 70's and early 80's.)
L