Demasted...check your forestay

[sesmith]

We spent last week on Lake Champlain on our 23.5 and had a little more excitement than we planned on. On day 2 we were sailing north in a northwest wind. The weather report was for 20 mph winds with up to 30 mph gusts and 2-3 ft waves. We were getting close to those conditions, had the main reefed and the jib unreefed. We were just discussing whether it was time to reef the jib, when a gust snapped the forestay with a bang, and the jib hit the water. I jumped up to see if I could get to the main when the mast came down. Luckily it missed us both...knocked me into the lifeline and missed my wife (at the tiller) as she leaned way back and the rail prevented it from hitting her lap. Besides the broken forestay, the butt casting on the bottom of the mast broke where it was pinned to the mast plate.

The cause of the failure was that the cable weakened where the "t" fitting (at the top) was swaged to the cable. We have a furler and the furler track covers the cable up to the "t" fitting, and we had no idea that the cable probably was frayed from repeated flexing over the years.

We were able to motor into the nearest cove and get the sails furled and the mast stowed, then motored back to Point Bay marina (where we started earlier that day).

A couple of plugs for the local businesses there. Steve, at Point Bay Marina took quick care of us there. He got parts ordered for the mast and sent us up to Vermont Sailing Partners near Burlington, who would be better able to make the repairs. We motored back to our vehicle back at Westport, NY to pull the boat out and head to Burlington. I was amazed at the customer service from Point Bay marina, to order parts for a repair they weren't making any money on, just to take care of a customer from out of town. We found out quickly why Steve sent us to Vermont Sailing Partners. What a fantastic, extremely competent shop. Bill, the owner is a fantastic guy...overnighted more parts and had us back in the water 2 days after the mishap, and restitched our jib in a couple of places to boot, all for a very reasonable price. Bill also put a universal joint at the top of the forestay cable he made up, just under the new "t" fitting, so this shouldn't happen in the future. We were able to get in another 4 days of sailing in before we had to reluctantly leave Lake Champlain.

So I just thought I'd put a post out to hopefully save someone else from having a similar problem. Check your forestay carefully the next time you have the mast down.

Scott

 

[Alan]

Just one question. How old was that forestay? For this very reason it should be replaced every 10 years. They rarely give any warning and the damage and possible injury is just not worth the risk. Hopefully others will learn from your mishap and take this opportunity to do some simple preventative maintenance. Glad to hear no one was hurt in your case.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

Scott, good to hear you are both fine after this happened, thanks for the warning, I have never been a big fan of these T fittings. My furler foil is short about 3 inches from the T fitting so it can be inspected on our boat.

I am thinking about replacing my CDI furler and so will be getting a new forestay as well. I would like to eliminate the T fitting altogether, using a different connection to the mast. Could you post a picture of the setup you now have ? not sure what a "universal joint" is, sounds like a toggle ?
Bob

 

[Brian M H23]

This is one good reason to not use a CDI furler. They put a BEATING on the forestay up near the top. I had frays in my forestay near the T-ball after furling it in heavy air once.
Also, they don't use a mast halyard. A headsail with a mast-side halyard is capable of holding the mast up long enough to ease the sheets and get the sails down.

The T-Ball fitting is great - it is much stronger than pins and plates. Over time the plates wear the pin out because of point loading (the pin is a smaller diameter than the hole) but the T-ball is spherical and loads the socket evenly. The only downside is that it does not resist bending very well - the only time a forestay gets loaded in bending, is with a CDI furler.

 

[sesmith]

not sure what a "universal joint" is, sounds like a toggle ?
Bob

Yes. Poor choice of words. I believe it's some sort of a double jaw toggle attached to the "t" Will look at it more closely tonight. No idea on the age of the forestay as we bought the boat 2nd hand 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[C Jones]

I agree with Alan, 10 years is a good life span. I replaced my original forestay last year on my h23 for 2 reasons. One, it was old and two, I added a new CDI roller furler and needed a shorter one. I also had the forestay T receiver plate replaced. Glad no one was hurt and its good to hear of the great service you received.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

T-ball fitting

I have not decided if I will use a T-ball fitting when I replace the forestay. I don't think a T-ball is the best choice for a boat that gets trailered, it can also be easily abused when putting the mast up and down. But I am reluctant to make a hole in the mast to employ any alternative. I'm interested in the combination of a T-ball and toggle that Scott has used.

Some people use their spinnaker halyard tied to the bow as insurance against a failed forestay, I have no idea how effective this might be in a catastrophic failure in high winds.

Bob

 

[soling42]

Sesmith you're not alone. Here's a sad tale from one of our noteworthy/famous forum contributor who experienced a similar issue and compiled ideas of how to fix your problem. http://kobernus.com/hunter260/headstay/headstay.html

New rigging or not I immediately recognized the potential to damage these fittings with human error when they don't seat properly while stepping the mast on our H260 and 240 trailerboats. The T fitting is a fine fitting to allow easy removal of a stay and also distributes the load well, but make sure it seats right EVERY TIME you step the mast. A fully loaded rig bearing on it just ONE time while it's twisted in its socket will damage the fitting and potentially wreck your day. Kinks in the rigging and fittings never end well but it doesn't mean that the fitting design is substandard.

My rather simple fix is to completely prevent misalignment by placing a permanent (but easily removable) guide over the Ts. Experimenting with alternatives it came down to simply pop riveting on a 1/2" 2hole pvc pipe strap found in your local electrical dept. I pinch them together slightly and put them right over the stay at/below the T, close to the head allowing for the stays angle of approach when the mast is in place.

On our 260 the forestay guide gets a rivet on both sides of the stay while the side stays get a rivet only on the aft/lower side when the mast in in the lowered position. Grand total of $2 and 15mins could save your day. Here's a few pics.

Have a nice, safe Summer.
Mike and Kelli

PS. Hey Bob, many a sailor who's lost a fore stay and kept their cool has saved the rig by bearing away/staying on a downwind course and quickly attaching the spinnaker/any fwd halyard to the bow. Yes it'd work fine to keep it on the bow for insurance. I don't and I wonder If I'd think clearly enough to bear away in an emergency as the jib wildly flies past the leeward rail

 

[sesmith]

Attached is a picture of the new setup. A couple of pieces of electrical / rigging tape placed over the top part of the groove in the mast keeps it in place while raising the mast.

Scott

 

[Bob 04 H260]

thanks Scott just what I wanted to see, looks like it might be a good idea to use something to keep that T-ball in the slot, either some tape or a plastic piece like Mike suggested.
Bob

 

[Alan]

I seem to recall there used to be a rubber plug that was inserted into the hole to retain the T ball fitting in place.

http://www.binksonline.com.au/store/category96_2.htm

 

[soling42]

I tried the rubber inserts and found them unreliable. Even the stiffest ones still allowed the T to twist and/or pop out. I suspect they might work ok on smaller rigging(maybe under a 20' boat) but there's a lot of wire swinging around, and plenty of things to be alert to when you're raising a bigger boats rig.

Unfortunately Scotts fix will require the removal of the forestay to be shortened or at least to have a new head fitting pressed on. Even after this, the fitting can still twist in its seat while the mast is being stepped.

I too agree with Alan about rigging replacement after 10yrs OR any trauma to the rigging like kinks/crimps/lightening/general mayhem and rammage/ etc... Fittings grow tired(as does wire) and fatigue fractures aren't always easy to see.

Keeping the rigging up gets trickier the older things get. This observation may also have other more practical applications for us older/well worn sailors.

Mike

 

[Bob 04 H260]

it seems to me the adavntage of this toggle solution is that it allows rotation in two orthagonal directions as well as release of the forestay without removing the T-ball from the mast socket. The T-ball then can be held captive in the mast slot with a plastic or aluminum gate held in place with poprivets or machine screws. With the fitting he has on the end of the wire terminating inside the foil and connected to the toggle it will be very difficult to apply a force that would damage or kink the wire, or the T-ball fitting ?
It can be so difficult to control the furler/forestay when raising and lowering the mast this solution should easily pay for itself.
Bob

 

[soling42]

I was stepping my mast (on the water and sometimes underway with a power winch & remote)for over a year when I sailed from a friends free dock that was on the wrong side of a fixed bridge but in a great spot otherwise. The T-fitting guide I used worked flawlessly so it was surely worth doing.

Good luck in your effort and post your results. Above all be safe.

Mike

 

[Drew13440]

Wow!

Point Bay Marina! I trailered 600 miles to Vermont last summer and launched there, spent a week. Great people, great sailing! I bought a PBM hat, proudly wear it still. The smell of pine forest blowing across Champlain was a memorable thing for this Chesapeake region sailor.

Learned that after 600 highway miles, EVERY SINGLE nut on the boat had to be re-tightened. Some of them were gone, lying in the cockpit or on the side of I-95 somewhere.

Glad no one was hurt in this situation. Good, cautionary tale on the importance of maintanence and making sure she's rigged right.

Michael, as always, you've got it nailed down!

 

[soling42]

Drew,
Road vikings/trailer sailors need to check their nuts and bolts because they have loose screws

Vermont sounds fantastic. Glad you use your boat in new spots. I'm overdue for a road trip with ours but maybe not Vermont, it'd be 1600mi for me.......but, maybe that's not such a bad idea. The heat index is 105 again today.

Take care, M&K

 

[Drew13440]

God Almighty 105 is WAY too much. Go find Lake Erie, or something! Maybe stay indoors, until it cools off some? You all are troupers down there....

 

[fleetswell]

Does anyone know the actual oringal length of the foresay for a H23? I like the idea of adding a toggle at the mast end of the forestay, and need to find the Tball (or whatever ) connector that inserts into the mast of the H23. Also, my H23 has a CDI furler and the drum interferes with opening the anchor locker. So, I need to shorten that end of the forestay as well and add chainplates to get the drum further off the deck. It would be handy to know the actual lenght of the original forestay so that I can subtract the chainplate and toggle lengths when we make the new forestay. Any help appreciated. Thanks
Chuck

 

[DJN51]

Chuck,unless you have right tools to swage fittings wouldnt advise .Had my forestay done as sesmith at vermont sailing ,everything new $130.00.Couldnt been happier with work and service.Call Bill Fastiggi 802 6557245.He will help with any reconfigure.I have CDI ,no problem with install.

 

[fleetswell]

Thanks for the contact info.
I'll give Bill a call after the holidays
thank you again
Chuck