Hello, This last December we purchased a 1988 Hunter 31' beauty. She was purchased from the original owner who rigged and kept her well. Very nice boat! Lot's of questions but probably most important is a couple of comments apperaring on the survey of Oct. 18th 2000. While the boat was surveyed @ above what we paid for it, the following direct comment from the surveyor got my attention. B-1 "2 areas of delamination were located on the deck. Both areas are located just forward of the chain plates, 1 area on the port and 1 on the starboard. The port area is approximately 12-14" in diameter (roughly) and the starboard area is approximately 30-36" long X 10-12" wide. Note: Only slightly elevated moisture meter readings were noted in both areas (8-12%). * Reccomend both areas be repaired in accordance to standard marine practices to prevent further delamination, further water intrusion into the core, or more costly repairs if left unattended" I was wondering if anyone out there can help me understand what I need to do. Is it something I can repair/correct or should I have it looked at? Any thoughts, comments, experience would be greatly appreciated. Regards------Dana
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G
Guest
Dana, stop the water
Dana, What the surveyer said was, water is getting into the core material. Your deck has a sandwich of fiberglass. Layers of fiberglass then a core then more fiberglass. Since chainplates are notorious leak points this is probably the problem. What he is saying is to find the leak (I would just rebed everything that may cause a leak in the area chainplates, lifeline bases,etc.) dry the core and repair the delamination. I think it would be much better if you read a brochure on this. Diagrams help alot. West system puts out brochures on different areas of fiberglass repair. I would buy the "Fiberglass Boat repair and maintenence" brochure. It is available at just about any major boat store. I do believe they have a web site that you could look at things. I do not have that site address. They explain delamination and repair much better than I can and they have diagrams! r.w.landau
Dana, What the surveyer said was, water is getting into the core material. Your deck has a sandwich of fiberglass. Layers of fiberglass then a core then more fiberglass. Since chainplates are notorious leak points this is probably the problem. What he is saying is to find the leak (I would just rebed everything that may cause a leak in the area chainplates, lifeline bases,etc.) dry the core and repair the delamination. I think it would be much better if you read a brochure on this. Diagrams help alot. West system puts out brochures on different areas of fiberglass repair. I would buy the "Fiberglass Boat repair and maintenence" brochure. It is available at just about any major boat store. I do believe they have a web site that you could look at things. I do not have that site address. They explain delamination and repair much better than I can and they have diagrams! r.w.landau
I seen a procedure that is pretty slick.
Dana: I have seen a procedure that looks pretty slick. You remove the fiberglass with a cutting tool to just remove the fiberglass and gel coat in the smooth area. Then they either remove or treat the area that is infected. When this area being treated is done you replace the panel that was cut out and glue it and re-glass it in place. Touch up the gelcoat and you are done. The other common procedure is to drill holes in the area and inject epoxy in the area. Then you need to touch up the non-skid and the smooth gel coat. I would have an experienced person look at this and see what they think. The first thing that needs to be resolved is where is the moisture comming from. The first thing I would check is the mast/compress post. If water is comming down the mast it can find it's way into the cross member and into the deck area. I was lucky enough that the cross member was not a problem area when we had to replace our compression post but this is a common problem. Look at Allan Hadads (sp? sorry Allan) procedure in the photo forum for repairing the cross member. Good luck. Let us know what the cause and fix is.
Dana: I have seen a procedure that looks pretty slick. You remove the fiberglass with a cutting tool to just remove the fiberglass and gel coat in the smooth area. Then they either remove or treat the area that is infected. When this area being treated is done you replace the panel that was cut out and glue it and re-glass it in place. Touch up the gelcoat and you are done. The other common procedure is to drill holes in the area and inject epoxy in the area. Then you need to touch up the non-skid and the smooth gel coat. I would have an experienced person look at this and see what they think. The first thing that needs to be resolved is where is the moisture comming from. The first thing I would check is the mast/compress post. If water is comming down the mast it can find it's way into the cross member and into the deck area. I was lucky enough that the cross member was not a problem area when we had to replace our compression post but this is a common problem. Look at Allan Hadads (sp? sorry Allan) procedure in the photo forum for repairing the cross member. Good luck. Let us know what the cause and fix is.
T
Tim
You need to have this looked at.
36"x12" is a substantial area of delamination and it sounds like its in a load bearing area (near the chainplates and the hull to deck joint.) You need to question the surveyor closely and get a repair estimate from a few boatyards. The boat is probably not insurable until the repairs are made since the report requires it. If this is as extensive as the report says, expect the repair to be at least a few thousand dollars, maybe more. This is not a candidate for injecting epoxy. The repair involves opening the deck, digging out the rotten balsa, drying out the whole area, putting in new balsa, building in a new section of deck, sealing it all up including the source of the water intrusion, and matching th gel coat. I'd get started now to avoid missing much of the sailing season. Sorry to be such a downer.
36"x12" is a substantial area of delamination and it sounds like its in a load bearing area (near the chainplates and the hull to deck joint.) You need to question the surveyor closely and get a repair estimate from a few boatyards. The boat is probably not insurable until the repairs are made since the report requires it. If this is as extensive as the report says, expect the repair to be at least a few thousand dollars, maybe more. This is not a candidate for injecting epoxy. The repair involves opening the deck, digging out the rotten balsa, drying out the whole area, putting in new balsa, building in a new section of deck, sealing it all up including the source of the water intrusion, and matching th gel coat. I'd get started now to avoid missing much of the sailing season. Sorry to be such a downer.
G
Guest
But don't over do it either
I had a similar problem on my 31 when i bought it. Differece was I knew the leak was undernether the mast becuase the compression post was rotten. The surveyor, however, reported moisture reading on both side decks, similar to yours. After rebedding the mast step (required taking the mast down) the leak stopped. On a recent survey the moisture readings were negligable. There is probably some slight moisture problem still in the decks, but I noticed water seeping down the liner over the galley, quarter berth etc. for some time afterwards. With the leak fixed, I will wait a good while before I do any extensive repairs. This might be your problem too. There are lots of postings in the archives about the compression post problem. Be sure to read them and check yours out. The $ to take the mast down is way less than the cost of repairing further damage.
I had a similar problem on my 31 when i bought it. Differece was I knew the leak was undernether the mast becuase the compression post was rotten. The surveyor, however, reported moisture reading on both side decks, similar to yours. After rebedding the mast step (required taking the mast down) the leak stopped. On a recent survey the moisture readings were negligable. There is probably some slight moisture problem still in the decks, but I noticed water seeping down the liner over the galley, quarter berth etc. for some time afterwards. With the leak fixed, I will wait a good while before I do any extensive repairs. This might be your problem too. There are lots of postings in the archives about the compression post problem. Be sure to read them and check yours out. The $ to take the mast down is way less than the cost of repairing further damage.
T
Tim Schaaf
Rotten?
The fact that the balsa is wet doesn't mean it is rotten, YET. But you should give it a chance to dry out. Drilling holes and filling with epoxy can work on this size of area..depends to some extent on the condition of the balsa. By the way, make sure you drill the holes through the balsa (very little resistance) until you reach the inner skin. That way, the epoxy can get to the inner skin/balsa interface and take care of delamination there, as well. People often only take care of the outer skin. I can't imagine spending thousands on this, and, if you are handy, you won't spend very much at all. But, you do need to know the source of the water.
The fact that the balsa is wet doesn't mean it is rotten, YET. But you should give it a chance to dry out. Drilling holes and filling with epoxy can work on this size of area..depends to some extent on the condition of the balsa. By the way, make sure you drill the holes through the balsa (very little resistance) until you reach the inner skin. That way, the epoxy can get to the inner skin/balsa interface and take care of delamination there, as well. People often only take care of the outer skin. I can't imagine spending thousands on this, and, if you are handy, you won't spend very much at all. But, you do need to know the source of the water.
R
R.W. Landau
more info
Dana, I would again suggest that you read that repair manual. With the other responses, I would check out the mast/compression post for the leak. If you drill the holes for epoxy injection, you must first let the core dry out Epoxy does not bond well to moist surfaces. That area is not to big to do injections if it is done correctly, provided the core is not rotten. I inquired at Catalina once about a soft cockpit floor and they felt that the 1 1/2" grid of holes would be fine even if the core was bad. Their thought was that a bridge would be made between the inner and outer fiberglass and the voids would be filled with the injected epoxy. They did make the suggestion to remove the core and replace it also. You can do it yourself, injections are not that hard. Just make sure you have a complete understanding of it before you do it. r.w.landau
Dana, I would again suggest that you read that repair manual. With the other responses, I would check out the mast/compression post for the leak. If you drill the holes for epoxy injection, you must first let the core dry out Epoxy does not bond well to moist surfaces. That area is not to big to do injections if it is done correctly, provided the core is not rotten. I inquired at Catalina once about a soft cockpit floor and they felt that the 1 1/2" grid of holes would be fine even if the core was bad. Their thought was that a bridge would be made between the inner and outer fiberglass and the voids would be filled with the injected epoxy. They did make the suggestion to remove the core and replace it also. You can do it yourself, injections are not that hard. Just make sure you have a complete understanding of it before you do it. r.w.landau
D
Dana Smith
Thanks gentlemen
Thanks guy's, I knew this was a great site. All of your input will be considered, mostly when the weather breaks here. I was @ the boat yesterday along with 20 + steady winds with an actual temp of about 18 deg. F.to say nothing of the side-way's snow. Try as I may, I could not force myself to be there more than a couple of minutes-brutal! I can't see or feel anything. And Tim, the insurance and bank loan hinged on the survey and they both saw no need for concern regarding sound worthiness, that makes me a little more relaxed as both deal with alot of boat business. Glad all that was done before I read your comments-scarry! I will be back on her as soon as the weather breaks but until than, I will have to wait. I printed off all of your thoughts and will look into all of them. May be a month or so before I have any news but bet you will hear how it is going. Again thanks a million and regards---Dana
Thanks guy's, I knew this was a great site. All of your input will be considered, mostly when the weather breaks here. I was @ the boat yesterday along with 20 + steady winds with an actual temp of about 18 deg. F.to say nothing of the side-way's snow. Try as I may, I could not force myself to be there more than a couple of minutes-brutal! I can't see or feel anything. And Tim, the insurance and bank loan hinged on the survey and they both saw no need for concern regarding sound worthiness, that makes me a little more relaxed as both deal with alot of boat business. Glad all that was done before I read your comments-scarry! I will be back on her as soon as the weather breaks but until than, I will have to wait. I printed off all of your thoughts and will look into all of them. May be a month or so before I have any news but bet you will hear how it is going. Again thanks a million and regards---Dana
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