Greetings friends, I known this subject has been hashed many times, But I'd like some live feed back from any that are willing. I'm considering trying house paint as I've heard several success stories. I know there will be those that say don't do it, use the "good stuff" like I did. I'm sure if I use the "good stuff" typically a two part type paint, I will get wonderful results, but what about this house paint thing I keep hearing about? does it hold up? does it look good? has any one used house paint with the nonskid stuff mixed in? Thanks, Don Bodemann
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Consider Kirby's
Joe, I don't know the answer to your question and - given the small paint cost when repainting a boat vs. the overall cost and hassle - am not sure why you'd want to opt away from at least a 1-part polyurethane paint in preference to a softer, oil based paint not designed for such use. Given that, you might want to visit kirbypaint.com. They've been making paint for over a hundred years 'the old fashioned way' for boats...but again, what suits a guy with a lobster boat may not suit the guy who wants to buy your boat some day. Good luck! Jack
Joe, I don't know the answer to your question and - given the small paint cost when repainting a boat vs. the overall cost and hassle - am not sure why you'd want to opt away from at least a 1-part polyurethane paint in preference to a softer, oil based paint not designed for such use. Given that, you might want to visit kirbypaint.com. They've been making paint for over a hundred years 'the old fashioned way' for boats...but again, what suits a guy with a lobster boat may not suit the guy who wants to buy your boat some day. Good luck! Jack
Your about to make a HUGE investment
Painting a boat is a Huge investment of time and effort. And if it's done right is very rewarding. Consider using at least a one part polyurethane, runs about $80/gallon vs $20 for the housepaint. We used Interlux's Brightside, it's easy to apply and using the roll and tip method we got great results. I'd consider it a $60 dollar insurance policy that will keep you from having to do it all over again IF the house paint doesn't hold up.
Painting a boat is a Huge investment of time and effort. And if it's done right is very rewarding. Consider using at least a one part polyurethane, runs about $80/gallon vs $20 for the housepaint. We used Interlux's Brightside, it's easy to apply and using the roll and tip method we got great results. I'd consider it a $60 dollar insurance policy that will keep you from having to do it all over again IF the house paint doesn't hold up.
Have you considered Gel Coat?
Don: Have you considered Gelcoat. That is what was originally on your boat. The stuff is about $45 per gallon. They provide a thickener and color tint. You can start with the cockpit sole and work your way up to the more visible areas. This leave your non-skid capable of use all of the traditional cleaners. We have several boats in our harbor that have used house paint or a single part poly. It looks great if you want to sell the boat, but if you are really using the boat it needs to be touched up all the time. The next best option would be a two part poly. This wears and has the ability to be cleaned with chemicals.
Don: Have you considered Gelcoat. That is what was originally on your boat. The stuff is about $45 per gallon. They provide a thickener and color tint. You can start with the cockpit sole and work your way up to the more visible areas. This leave your non-skid capable of use all of the traditional cleaners. We have several boats in our harbor that have used house paint or a single part poly. It looks great if you want to sell the boat, but if you are really using the boat it needs to be touched up all the time. The next best option would be a two part poly. This wears and has the ability to be cleaned with chemicals.
Wanna' do it twice?
Like you Don I have heard that porch enamel is as good as anything. But the non-skid on the cabin is so much work that I do not think I would take the chance. There is so much removal and masking that I would not want to do it again. I used Brightside for the non-skid and Toplac for the gelcoat. Mixed white with one-third offwhite for the gelcoat and straight offwhite for the non-skid. If I didn't always work alone I would have paid the extra for two-part but it just sets up too quickly and you can't keep the edges flowing. Steve has always promoted covering gelcoat with gelcoat. And I have seen excellent results with that. But I like the fact that my cabin trunk is no longer porous, everything cleans up with the touch of a rag. It's amazing what a roll and tip job looks like with some practice. The best tip anyone can give you is to concentrate on the preparation. Every inch needs cleaned, well sanded, and cleaned again. It was a big problem getting a windless and dust free day. I practiced during the winter on locker covers that I took home. With at least eighteen bolts per cover to get off the hinges and hasps.
Like you Don I have heard that porch enamel is as good as anything. But the non-skid on the cabin is so much work that I do not think I would take the chance. There is so much removal and masking that I would not want to do it again. I used Brightside for the non-skid and Toplac for the gelcoat. Mixed white with one-third offwhite for the gelcoat and straight offwhite for the non-skid. If I didn't always work alone I would have paid the extra for two-part but it just sets up too quickly and you can't keep the edges flowing. Steve has always promoted covering gelcoat with gelcoat. And I have seen excellent results with that. But I like the fact that my cabin trunk is no longer porous, everything cleans up with the touch of a rag. It's amazing what a roll and tip job looks like with some practice. The best tip anyone can give you is to concentrate on the preparation. Every inch needs cleaned, well sanded, and cleaned again. It was a big problem getting a windless and dust free day. I practiced during the winter on locker covers that I took home. With at least eighteen bolts per cover to get off the hinges and hasps.
easy application?
I guess the real concern for me is ease of application. 2 part epoxy type paints sound like tricky stuff to work with (gel coat too?). Appearence would be the second most important criteria. I feel my deck does not get that much traffic compared to the floor of....anything where people walk and I don't allow shoes on my boat so the durability issue is low on the priority list. I realize we're talking about quite a bit of prep work so I would not mind spending a few extra $$ to get a better job. Steve, I should get some gel coat and try playing with it. It comes down to working with a product I'm comfortable with. Thanks to all for the input. Don
I guess the real concern for me is ease of application. 2 part epoxy type paints sound like tricky stuff to work with (gel coat too?). Appearence would be the second most important criteria. I feel my deck does not get that much traffic compared to the floor of....anything where people walk and I don't allow shoes on my boat so the durability issue is low on the priority list. I realize we're talking about quite a bit of prep work so I would not mind spending a few extra $$ to get a better job. Steve, I should get some gel coat and try playing with it. It comes down to working with a product I'm comfortable with. Thanks to all for the input. Don
I'll try to get you the name of the Co.
Don: I'll try to get you the name of the company that my friend got his from. It came as a kit with the wax mixed in. All you do is add the color & catalyst apply it. It appears to me that a roller is going to be the ticket. One big advantage of the gelcoat is that it is a one step procedure. The wax is in the gelcoat, when it dries you are done (except of the cleanup)
Don: I'll try to get you the name of the company that my friend got his from. It came as a kit with the wax mixed in. All you do is add the color & catalyst apply it. It appears to me that a roller is going to be the ticket. One big advantage of the gelcoat is that it is a one step procedure. The wax is in the gelcoat, when it dries you are done (except of the cleanup)
Don't know about house paint
I can't, with any authority, say that house paint would be a bad idea but house paint would be a bad idea! Seriously, depending on how much area you're painting, you might only need a quart of Brightsides (one part), maybe two. Add the nonskid material and you're looking at a whopping $50 for something you KNOW is quality. Pretty cheap peace of mind, if you ask me! LaDonna
I can't, with any authority, say that house paint would be a bad idea but house paint would be a bad idea!
Seriously, depending on how much area you're painting, you might only need a quart of Brightsides (one part), maybe two. Add the nonskid material and you're looking at a whopping $50 for something you KNOW is quality. Pretty cheap peace of mind, if you ask me! LaDonnaHome Depot Exterior Latex
Don, I heard may people praise a straightforward latex exterior housepaint from Home Depot. Usually with the recommendation that "all the commercial work-boat guys" in their marine or yard use it. What's left out of the equation is that those same commercial types also re-do everything at the beginning of each season! I have a feeling that's not what you have in mind <g>.
Don, I heard may people praise a straightforward latex exterior housepaint from Home Depot. Usually with the recommendation that "all the commercial work-boat guys" in their marine or yard use it. What's left out of the equation is that those same commercial types also re-do everything at the beginning of each season! I have a feeling that's not what you have in mind <g>.
I hate to paint
I'm amazed this debate always comes up. Speaking strictly for myself and myself only, I would NEVER consider painting a boat with house paint. It escapes me how this could even be considered. Better to sell the boat than paint it with latex paint, I say. If this debate focused on using something like Imron on boats, then, ok, I've done that with some pretty good results. I've got to assume this issue comes up because of costs related to marine coatings. However, latex paints like house paint require certain levels of humidity in order to dry properly. The new precatalyzed marine coatings that are essentially epoxy based are just as easy to use, even themselves out so you can't tell the method of application with reasonable care and cure all on their own as a chemical process and not because solvents evaporate. And, they become hard as nails and take years of punishment. Sure, boating can be more expensive than it needs to be at times, but it just seems to me that lathering on relatively inexpensive latex house paint is just one method ensuring propogation of that truism.
I'm amazed this debate always comes up. Speaking strictly for myself and myself only, I would NEVER consider painting a boat with house paint. It escapes me how this could even be considered. Better to sell the boat than paint it with latex paint, I say. If this debate focused on using something like Imron on boats, then, ok, I've done that with some pretty good results. I've got to assume this issue comes up because of costs related to marine coatings. However, latex paints like house paint require certain levels of humidity in order to dry properly. The new precatalyzed marine coatings that are essentially epoxy based are just as easy to use, even themselves out so you can't tell the method of application with reasonable care and cure all on their own as a chemical process and not because solvents evaporate. And, they become hard as nails and take years of punishment. Sure, boating can be more expensive than it needs to be at times, but it just seems to me that lathering on relatively inexpensive latex house paint is just one method ensuring propogation of that truism.
Gee...
...wonder why they call one thing HOUSE paint and the other BOAT paint? Would you use diesel fuel in a gasoline engine, or vice versa?
...wonder why they call one thing HOUSE paint and the other BOAT paint? Would you use diesel fuel in a gasoline engine, or vice versa?
color outside the lines
Well, no advocates in this croud. I will probably use Brightsides as Ladonna suggested. Might play with Steves Gel coat to get a feel for the product. Folks, understand it is the type of people that try things different that bring us many great ideas for our boats. Those that aren't afraid to color outside the lines! Because it doesn't say "for marine use" doesn't mean a given product wont do a great job on our boats! I, on the other hand prefer to let some other brave soles do the experimentation. If I hear of a tecnique or product that works well, then I might give it a try. Don B.
Well, no advocates in this croud. I will probably use Brightsides as Ladonna suggested. Might play with Steves Gel coat to get a feel for the product. Folks, understand it is the type of people that try things different that bring us many great ideas for our boats. Those that aren't afraid to color outside the lines! Because it doesn't say "for marine use" doesn't mean a given product wont do a great job on our boats! I, on the other hand prefer to let some other brave soles do the experimentation. If I hear of a tecnique or product that works well, then I might give it a try. Don B.
Don... been there, sorry to say....
it seemed like a good idea at the time, but the paint was oil based enamel for decks, walkways, etc. One problem.. selection of colors. Limited, too dark. Second problem, too glossy. Third... not compatible with what was used by Hunter when new. I lifted in places and peeled continuosly. Finally, I sanded evey speck of paint off my decks including the texture of the non skid, and started fresh. Used the primer, sprinkled sand, then color coat method simular to Don Casey's book "This Old Boat" except I used Interlux one part paint with teflon and used the same makers primer for that paint. Used also a flatener that worked great. Applied several color coats to lock the sand in good and smooth it out some. Turned out real nice... very pleased. I have some post on that.. boat name "Freebird" Hunter 33, 1982 model.
it seemed like a good idea at the time, but the paint was oil based enamel for decks, walkways, etc. One problem.. selection of colors. Limited, too dark. Second problem, too glossy. Third... not compatible with what was used by Hunter when new. I lifted in places and peeled continuosly. Finally, I sanded evey speck of paint off my decks including the texture of the non skid, and started fresh. Used the primer, sprinkled sand, then color coat method simular to Don Casey's book "This Old Boat" except I used Interlux one part paint with teflon and used the same makers primer for that paint. Used also a flatener that worked great. Applied several color coats to lock the sand in good and smooth it out some. Turned out real nice... very pleased. I have some post on that.. boat name "Freebird" Hunter 33, 1982 model.
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slippin and sliden
Don; make sure you use the antiskid additive when you apply the "Brightsides" i used it on the deck of my boat and the next mornings dew almost put me on my butt. as far as wear, as long as you leave yor golf shoes at home and keep blocks from banging the surface,i'm sure you'll be pleased with it
Don; make sure you use the antiskid additive when you apply the "Brightsides" i used it on the deck of my boat and the next mornings dew almost put me on my butt. as far as wear, as long as you leave yor golf shoes at home and keep blocks from banging the surface,i'm sure you'll be pleased with it
Outside the lines, Don...
Hey, Don, you're right about going outside the lines and sometimes using products not necessarily deemed "marine" with great success...and the fact that sometimes going outside the box leads to new discoveries with the case in point being how about that guy that slurped that FIRST raw oyster!!! But, when it comes to major modifications -- and I consider painting a boat just that -- I think that's the time to drop back and take the advice of the folks like Interlux who done what been there before me and stick with tried-and-true, time-tested systems. I think the money you save by going the very viable route you so correctly just outlined is much better spent on major productions like painting the boat. And, speaking of Don Casey, I think he just pulled a goof in the current issue of Sail magazine; maybe the folks at Treadmaster are one of his sponsors, I don't know. But, I would strongly discourage anyone from laying down Treadmaster across the entire deck as a means of anti-skid. I think Treadmaster is absolutely great in some applications and I don't think there's a product out there that can beat it. But, I have seen the stuff after a few years of being ravaged by UV and it's not a pretty sight. It's not something that is easily laid down and it's not something easily taken up. Others may do what they think best, but as for me, I'll not be laying that stuff on my deck. Hey, good luck to you there, Don. Let us know how things turn out.
Hey, Don, you're right about going outside the lines and sometimes using products not necessarily deemed "marine" with great success...and the fact that sometimes going outside the box leads to new discoveries with the case in point being how about that guy that slurped that FIRST raw oyster!!! But, when it comes to major modifications -- and I consider painting a boat just that -- I think that's the time to drop back and take the advice of the folks like Interlux who done what been there before me and stick with tried-and-true, time-tested systems. I think the money you save by going the very viable route you so correctly just outlined is much better spent on major productions like painting the boat. And, speaking of Don Casey, I think he just pulled a goof in the current issue of Sail magazine; maybe the folks at Treadmaster are one of his sponsors, I don't know. But, I would strongly discourage anyone from laying down Treadmaster across the entire deck as a means of anti-skid. I think Treadmaster is absolutely great in some applications and I don't think there's a product out there that can beat it. But, I have seen the stuff after a few years of being ravaged by UV and it's not a pretty sight. It's not something that is easily laid down and it's not something easily taken up. Others may do what they think best, but as for me, I'll not be laying that stuff on my deck. Hey, good luck to you there, Don. Let us know how things turn out.
Experimenter by necessity (Jury still out)
West Marine not stocking paint made me color out of the lines even though I wanted to be a good boy. Still too soon to see long term results. In painting the non skid on my 79 H33 recently, I like David Underwood, basically followed (or tried to follow) the recommendations of Don Casey. My intention was to sand the old non skid, lay down Interlux epoxy primer, cover with sand, and after vacuuming up the loose sand, encapsulate the sand in a couple coats of Interlux Brightside one part marine paint with a flattener added. Couple of things went wrong. First, I misfigured quantities grossly. Brightside is listed I believe at about 400 sq ft/gal so I figured a couple of quarts were plenty. Turns out when putting on over sand, paint probably covers less than 100 sq ft/gal. In working out procedures, I go through the entire sequence with all the hinged hatch covers on the boat. Color is a light gray made by mixing a quart of Brightside white and a quart of one of their Brightside grays. So they serve as a baseline of comparison with everything done by the book. With a deadline for splashing staring me in the face, West Marine doesn't have the additional Interlux 404 primer or Interlux Brightside and I can't locate another source and I can't wait for the delivery schedule inherent with the labeled "hazardous material". Brightside is billed as a single part polyurethane paint so after searching around I end up with two gallons of Sherwin Williams very best Polyurethane Floor enamel, one of white and one of gray which with a little experimentation, I mix to the same color as the original brightside mixture. I chose the Sherwin Williams because: 1.It is a floor enamel and like Don Bodeman, it seemed to me that the environment of a boat deck is not that different from the environment of any outdoor painted floor surface. 2. It is labeled as a polyurethane enamel, same term used with the brightside paint so I hoped for no compatibility issues with the 404 primer. Now I ran out of the epoxy 404 primer before I could finish the starboard side deck and again in searching around, I locate at Lowes a two part Rustoleum Epoxy-shield coating labeled as a multipurpose coating for outdoor surfaces. I used this in stead of the 404 epoxy primer for part of the starboard side deck. So on my newly painted deck I have the following combinations: 1. Deck hatches primed with Interlux 404 with sand sprinkled in then vacuumed off, painted two coats with Interlux Brightside. (completely within the lines) 2. About half of starboard side deck primed with Rustoleum Epoxy-Shield with sand sprinkled into this material and then painted two coats Sherwin Williams Polyurethane floor enamel. (completely out of the lines) 3. All the rest of the non skid: Primed with Interlux 404, sprinkled with sand, Painted with two coats Sherwin Williams Polyurethane. (half in the lines) Right now you can't tell the difference. I'll monitor it and report in about a year. A couple of comments on the experience. The sand makes a great non skid surface. It is truly non skid and looks good too. I ended up using a play sand. I believe that Don Casey recommends a foundry sand with a numerical grading but I didn't have access to foundy sand. Play sand is everywhere and is dry, an essential characteristic. A fine even graded (most grains the same size) sand is what's needed. The old bugaboo of keeping a wet edge is very important in laying the sand down. The 404 epoxy has a very short open time. About two square feet of the primer followed by putting the sand down immediately leaving a two inch border of the primer unsanded to serve as a bridge to the next two square foot section seemed to work best for me. any more than 2 sq feet and there will be a marked edge between the sanded sections in the finished non skid. Very helpful if two can work together, one putting down primer, other putting down sand. I was disappointed with the uv absorbtion that the light gray paint exhibits. The new gray surface gets hot in the sun. On this score though, there is no "bare foot feelable" difference between the marine paint and the Sherwin Williams floor paint.
West Marine not stocking paint made me color out of the lines even though I wanted to be a good boy. Still too soon to see long term results. In painting the non skid on my 79 H33 recently, I like David Underwood, basically followed (or tried to follow) the recommendations of Don Casey. My intention was to sand the old non skid, lay down Interlux epoxy primer, cover with sand, and after vacuuming up the loose sand, encapsulate the sand in a couple coats of Interlux Brightside one part marine paint with a flattener added. Couple of things went wrong. First, I misfigured quantities grossly. Brightside is listed I believe at about 400 sq ft/gal so I figured a couple of quarts were plenty. Turns out when putting on over sand, paint probably covers less than 100 sq ft/gal. In working out procedures, I go through the entire sequence with all the hinged hatch covers on the boat. Color is a light gray made by mixing a quart of Brightside white and a quart of one of their Brightside grays. So they serve as a baseline of comparison with everything done by the book. With a deadline for splashing staring me in the face, West Marine doesn't have the additional Interlux 404 primer or Interlux Brightside and I can't locate another source and I can't wait for the delivery schedule inherent with the labeled "hazardous material". Brightside is billed as a single part polyurethane paint so after searching around I end up with two gallons of Sherwin Williams very best Polyurethane Floor enamel, one of white and one of gray which with a little experimentation, I mix to the same color as the original brightside mixture. I chose the Sherwin Williams because: 1.It is a floor enamel and like Don Bodeman, it seemed to me that the environment of a boat deck is not that different from the environment of any outdoor painted floor surface. 2. It is labeled as a polyurethane enamel, same term used with the brightside paint so I hoped for no compatibility issues with the 404 primer. Now I ran out of the epoxy 404 primer before I could finish the starboard side deck and again in searching around, I locate at Lowes a two part Rustoleum Epoxy-shield coating labeled as a multipurpose coating for outdoor surfaces. I used this in stead of the 404 epoxy primer for part of the starboard side deck. So on my newly painted deck I have the following combinations: 1. Deck hatches primed with Interlux 404 with sand sprinkled in then vacuumed off, painted two coats with Interlux Brightside. (completely within the lines) 2. About half of starboard side deck primed with Rustoleum Epoxy-Shield with sand sprinkled into this material and then painted two coats Sherwin Williams Polyurethane floor enamel. (completely out of the lines) 3. All the rest of the non skid: Primed with Interlux 404, sprinkled with sand, Painted with two coats Sherwin Williams Polyurethane. (half in the lines) Right now you can't tell the difference. I'll monitor it and report in about a year. A couple of comments on the experience. The sand makes a great non skid surface. It is truly non skid and looks good too. I ended up using a play sand. I believe that Don Casey recommends a foundry sand with a numerical grading but I didn't have access to foundy sand. Play sand is everywhere and is dry, an essential characteristic. A fine even graded (most grains the same size) sand is what's needed. The old bugaboo of keeping a wet edge is very important in laying the sand down. The 404 epoxy has a very short open time. About two square feet of the primer followed by putting the sand down immediately leaving a two inch border of the primer unsanded to serve as a bridge to the next two square foot section seemed to work best for me. any more than 2 sq feet and there will be a marked edge between the sanded sections in the finished non skid. Very helpful if two can work together, one putting down primer, other putting down sand. I was disappointed with the uv absorbtion that the light gray paint exhibits. The new gray surface gets hot in the sun. On this score though, there is no "bare foot feelable" difference between the marine paint and the Sherwin Williams floor paint.
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I think I would rather.....
I think I would rather use the polymeric beads that Interlux makes for use in their paints. I would also use the Brightsides primer without any beads in it, adding the beads to the final paint layers. I would also not use a "flattener" as mixing half a can of the beads into the Brightsides will cause a bit of flattening anyway. Flattening gets tricky and it can come up uneven as well. A neighbor on the dock painted his decks in that fashion and it turned out great. He followed all the conventional instructions for dewaxing, sanding, and all the rest. One important note....Brightsides, while being a one part polyurethane, it is a linear polyurethane so paint in one direction to avoid shadowing and bad results.
I think I would rather use the polymeric beads that Interlux makes for use in their paints. I would also use the Brightsides primer without any beads in it, adding the beads to the final paint layers. I would also not use a "flattener" as mixing half a can of the beads into the Brightsides will cause a bit of flattening anyway. Flattening gets tricky and it can come up uneven as well. A neighbor on the dock painted his decks in that fashion and it turned out great. He followed all the conventional instructions for dewaxing, sanding, and all the rest. One important note....Brightsides, while being a one part polyurethane, it is a linear polyurethane so paint in one direction to avoid shadowing and bad results.
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