Have some delamination on both sides of deck near chain plates. I understand the repair procedure, but would like to know what, If any, laminate is between the deck. I have read many, many of the repair procedures on this model boat. Has anyone completed this repair? What products and what procedure was followed? I have had advice from many, but none that repaired a H-31. I was told you can access from beneath or through the deck. I must travel several hundred miles to do this repair and I would appreciate a heads up on any techniques or expertise that is out there. I don't know what to expect...balsa? marine plywood? fiberglass? I am going to repair this on 4/5/02, so I need any and all ideas quickly, please! Also the hull has some damage, but that is a little clearer. Thanks in advance for your input.....
- Status
Where did the water come from?
Winters: Do you know where the water entered this area. I do not remember anyone ever having THIS problem with a H'31. These chain plates USUALLY do not leak. I would find out where the leak is comming from before you attempt the repair. If you do not have any cracks in the deck, I would start looking at the mast step area. I think that I would cut the NON-SKID area out with a dremmel tool. This way you can replace the entire piece of fiberglass in one piece. The other option is to drill holes in the non-skid area and inject epoxy into the area. To answer your real question, I have no idea if this is plywood or balsa core, I'd guess plywood (probably wrong).
Winters: Do you know where the water entered this area. I do not remember anyone ever having THIS problem with a H'31. These chain plates USUALLY do not leak. I would find out where the leak is comming from before you attempt the repair. If you do not have any cracks in the deck, I would start looking at the mast step area. I think that I would cut the NON-SKID area out with a dremmel tool. This way you can replace the entire piece of fiberglass in one piece. The other option is to drill holes in the non-skid area and inject epoxy into the area. To answer your real question, I have no idea if this is plywood or balsa core, I'd guess plywood (probably wrong).
Follow up
Steve, I do not know where the leak is, but the surveyor indicated that there was moisture in the chain plate areas. From reading the reviews, I might agree that the leak may be higher in the cabin area, maybe near the mast...I don't know...It is finally getting warm enough here, for me to locate the leak. With some effort, I'm sure that I will track it down. For about one foot on either side of the deck in front of the chain plates, the deck seems to have some delamination. There were solar vents installed and also there are ports in the same area...these may also be part of the problem. With the distance that I am traveling, I have to stay overnight to work at the boat and I wanted to have an idea of what laminate I would be facing....I appreciate your input and any additional thoughts that you might have. There appears to be no soft spots or delamination at the mast step or under the mast. Thanks again...
Steve, I do not know where the leak is, but the surveyor indicated that there was moisture in the chain plate areas. From reading the reviews, I might agree that the leak may be higher in the cabin area, maybe near the mast...I don't know...It is finally getting warm enough here, for me to locate the leak. With some effort, I'm sure that I will track it down. For about one foot on either side of the deck in front of the chain plates, the deck seems to have some delamination. There were solar vents installed and also there are ports in the same area...these may also be part of the problem. With the distance that I am traveling, I have to stay overnight to work at the boat and I wanted to have an idea of what laminate I would be facing....I appreciate your input and any additional thoughts that you might have. There appears to be no soft spots or delamination at the mast step or under the mast. Thanks again...
I can tell you this!
Winter: I can tell you this. The crossmember that runs from one side of the boat to the other has a piece of pine/fir in it. When our compress post was leaking we sometimes noticed some water on the small spot light that is in the crossmember on the starboard side. This indicates to me that water was entering the mast and leaking down the cross member. Ours leaked out of the light fixture but there is no reason to believe that water would stop there. If I where you, I would take the wrap off the compression post too. This is just a piece of veener that covers the fir post. You may see that there is mold and/or rot in the compression post too. The water had entered the bulkhead on our H'31 and the bulkhead that seperates the head from the salon was also discolored. I would be interested in knowing what you find.
Winter: I can tell you this. The crossmember that runs from one side of the boat to the other has a piece of pine/fir in it. When our compress post was leaking we sometimes noticed some water on the small spot light that is in the crossmember on the starboard side. This indicates to me that water was entering the mast and leaking down the cross member. Ours leaked out of the light fixture but there is no reason to believe that water would stop there. If I where you, I would take the wrap off the compression post too. This is just a piece of veener that covers the fir post. You may see that there is mold and/or rot in the compression post too. The water had entered the bulkhead on our H'31 and the bulkhead that seperates the head from the salon was also discolored. I would be interested in knowing what you find.
Delamination wet, or dry?
Delaminated areas do not necessarily have to be wet. Delamination can occur from age, heat, impact, or accumulated movement, in addition to the causes associated with water saturation. For example, it has always seemed to me that the Cherubinis are particularly susceptible to core delamination, but, at least on my boat, the delaminations have never included water intrusion. A "dry" delamination is an excellent candidate for repair by epoxy injection. Add a little water to the equation, however, and the job can get much nastier, requiring drying (at the very optimistic least) or even re-coring. And, in that case, I am not sure that I would assume that the repair would be completed in one day! The fact that "hull damage" is mentioned, and that Steve notes that this is an unusual problem on the H31 prompts the question whether an impact was involved?
Delaminated areas do not necessarily have to be wet. Delamination can occur from age, heat, impact, or accumulated movement, in addition to the causes associated with water saturation. For example, it has always seemed to me that the Cherubinis are particularly susceptible to core delamination, but, at least on my boat, the delaminations have never included water intrusion. A "dry" delamination is an excellent candidate for repair by epoxy injection. Add a little water to the equation, however, and the job can get much nastier, requiring drying (at the very optimistic least) or even re-coring. And, in that case, I am not sure that I would assume that the repair would be completed in one day! The fact that "hull damage" is mentioned, and that Steve notes that this is an unusual problem on the H31 prompts the question whether an impact was involved?
Deck Delamination
Chainplates are a very common area for water intrusion. Did the surveyor use a moisture meter as well as sounding the deck and mast step area? On my boat the meter detected no moisture at the mast step but I did find moisture in the chainplate area. I also found a small area of delamination when the chainplate area was sounded. Since the delamination was not yet critical I rebed the chainplate deck covers and used a hole saw to remove a small area of the inside fiberglass deck liner. I then let it dry for a few months before the delamination repair. This repair was not a one day job. My boat is a 1981 and is cored with plywood.
Chainplates are a very common area for water intrusion. Did the surveyor use a moisture meter as well as sounding the deck and mast step area? On my boat the meter detected no moisture at the mast step but I did find moisture in the chainplate area. I also found a small area of delamination when the chainplate area was sounded. Since the delamination was not yet critical I rebed the chainplate deck covers and used a hole saw to remove a small area of the inside fiberglass deck liner. I then let it dry for a few months before the delamination repair. This repair was not a one day job. My boat is a 1981 and is cored with plywood.
Different than the Cherub's
This is one "improvement" that Hunter made after the Cherubini's. The chain plate bed and the pedestal bed is a raised area. We know that this is NOT going to prevent water intrusion but it definetly helps. The place where the chain plate penetrates the deck is raised about 1/4-3/8" or so. When water is on the decks it makes it a little more difficult for water to leak into this area. On the pedestal they raised the area about 2-3" which even makes the probably of a leak in the cockpit area that much more difficult. We all know that regardless of what they do, there is ALWAYS way for water to find it way in.
This is one "improvement" that Hunter made after the Cherubini's. The chain plate bed and the pedestal bed is a raised area. We know that this is NOT going to prevent water intrusion but it definetly helps. The place where the chain plate penetrates the deck is raised about 1/4-3/8" or so. When water is on the decks it makes it a little more difficult for water to leak into this area. On the pedestal they raised the area about 2-3" which even makes the probably of a leak in the cockpit area that much more difficult. We all know that regardless of what they do, there is ALWAYS way for water to find it way in.
This is what I found
In reference to the cross member.....I removed the veneer at the compression post and found it to be almost perfect. I did notice three drops of H2O on the wires, so I cut the fiberglass cover over the cross member and found that H2O had been entering via the mast wiring. The original piece of wood was coated with fiberglass and showed very little rot or compression. I'll have to address the H2O leak, but I am not sure of what I will do with the cross member? I am glad that I found the problem and am thinking about my options... I cut an inspection hole on both sides of the deck near the chain plate and found no evidence of any water damage. BUT I removed all of the ports and every one appears to have been leaking! Fortunately any damage is slight. The ports will remain out until I am certain that the plywood between is dry. I plan to inject epoxy between the fiberglass when I am sure all of the leaks in the ports are stopped and the area is completely dry. I found several stress cracks in the gel coat in the hull and I began to repair them according to the West System Manual. The fiberglass below the gelcoat was dry...I am also letting this air out. The leak in the mast wiring has me deep in thought..it is so very slight that I am thinking that there must be an alternative to removing the mast....There was a rivet that I removed in the base of the mast..I wonder if I can find a sealant to inject into that area? I can access the tube from inside the boat and I can seal the tube from inside...I worked with a sealant years ago that was a wax base and poured very readily...I am thinking that this might be an option? Will have to see............Quite a busy weekend, wouldn't you say? We'll update you after next weekend visit....Any thoughts will be appreciated....
In reference to the cross member.....I removed the veneer at the compression post and found it to be almost perfect. I did notice three drops of H2O on the wires, so I cut the fiberglass cover over the cross member and found that H2O had been entering via the mast wiring. The original piece of wood was coated with fiberglass and showed very little rot or compression. I'll have to address the H2O leak, but I am not sure of what I will do with the cross member? I am glad that I found the problem and am thinking about my options... I cut an inspection hole on both sides of the deck near the chain plate and found no evidence of any water damage. BUT I removed all of the ports and every one appears to have been leaking! Fortunately any damage is slight. The ports will remain out until I am certain that the plywood between is dry. I plan to inject epoxy between the fiberglass when I am sure all of the leaks in the ports are stopped and the area is completely dry. I found several stress cracks in the gel coat in the hull and I began to repair them according to the West System Manual. The fiberglass below the gelcoat was dry...I am also letting this air out. The leak in the mast wiring has me deep in thought..it is so very slight that I am thinking that there must be an alternative to removing the mast....There was a rivet that I removed in the base of the mast..I wonder if I can find a sealant to inject into that area? I can access the tube from inside the boat and I can seal the tube from inside...I worked with a sealant years ago that was a wax base and poured very readily...I am thinking that this might be an option? Will have to see............Quite a busy weekend, wouldn't you say? We'll update you after next weekend visit....Any thoughts will be appreciated....
Any input appreciated
Please read the last info that I supplied. If anyone has any thoughts, I would appreciate them. Thank you for your time..
Please read the last info that I supplied. If anyone has any thoughts, I would appreciate them. Thank you for your time..
Looks like you may have found the problem.
Winters: It looks like you may have found the problem with the leaking ports. I think that removing the ports and letting the area dry out is a good move. The next area is the mast leak. Being that you DO NOT have a problem at this time, I would suggest that you have the mast raised and completly seal the wires and the area under the mast. I would also suggest that you loop the wires so any water that MAY run down the wires will drain through the mast step and NOT drip down through the compression post. What has happened on these models 31 & 34 is water follows the wires down from the top of the mast and follows the wires down the wire chase. Depending on the amount of water, some times the water went straight down the compression post and sometimes it followed the wires to the port and/or starboard through the crossmember. If you can completely seal this area now you will eliminate any oppurtunity for this to happen in the future. Our compress post made it for about 11-12 year before we had any signs of a problem. Spend the few bucks now and nip the problem in the bud!
Winters: It looks like you may have found the problem with the leaking ports. I think that removing the ports and letting the area dry out is a good move. The next area is the mast leak. Being that you DO NOT have a problem at this time, I would suggest that you have the mast raised and completly seal the wires and the area under the mast. I would also suggest that you loop the wires so any water that MAY run down the wires will drain through the mast step and NOT drip down through the compression post. What has happened on these models 31 & 34 is water follows the wires down from the top of the mast and follows the wires down the wire chase. Depending on the amount of water, some times the water went straight down the compression post and sometimes it followed the wires to the port and/or starboard through the crossmember. If you can completely seal this area now you will eliminate any oppurtunity for this to happen in the future. Our compress post made it for about 11-12 year before we had any signs of a problem. Spend the few bucks now and nip the problem in the bud!
- Status