Decisions, decisions

[SailboatOwners.com]

Final results

Final results for the Quick quiz ending 8/11/2002:On our boat important decisions are made:52% By the skipper, but crew is comfortable making suggestions28% By the skipper after actively soliciting input15% Solely by the skipper05% After reaching consensus

 

[Brad Newell]

knowledge and responsiblity

Concensus is a generally happy way to operate, but, remember that the camel was a horse designed by a committee. I have found that there is usually only one person on board who has the knowledge to make key decisions. Comfort is one thing, safety of the vessel is another. I usually give an explanation to crew and guests but the depth of the explanation varies. And, for that matter, it is usually obvious when "something" must be done immediately and there is rarely an argument.There are times when the boat is moving fast and making a lot of noise. Those not used to that fact may well vote to shorten sail when it might not be appropriate. Having said that, I have changed destinations when the weather changed and the going got rough. I could have endured it but, it was a family outing, not a survival contest. You don't want family or guests to only remember the day they puked for ten hours.

 

[B Collier]

Responsibility

Decisions mean taking responsibility. In Ontario the skipper is 100% responsible for his/her vessel. Whether the decisions are based on consensus or a crew member takes it upon himself/herself to initiate a particular action, the skipper is ultimately responsible for the outcome. Only the foolhardy and the arrogant will ignore the input from their crew, but only the irresponsible will abdicate the decision making to "just anyone". A well trained, experienced skipper can make the voyage pleasant for everyone and make everyone feel a part of the decision making. In return everyone must recognize the skipper's final authority/responsibility and his competence to make the hard decisions. When those difficult moments arise there can be no hesitation to follow instructions. There can only be one person in charge!

 

[bentropy2YAHOO.COM]

so honest

I always look at the list for your response , very entertaining

 

[Stu Jackson]

Whose Boat is It Anyway?

Oddly enough, in all the very interesting replies to this question, I do not recollect reading anyone saying: "Heck, it's MY boat!"Usually the crew have no investment in something that can cost from $5,000 or less to ten or more times that amount. Seems to me that one way to deal with the issue is "You don't agree, buy me out, right here and now, it's all yours, kiddo!"

 

[Daniel Jonas]

Ownership

It's really not about ownership. The decision about who is in charge, particularly in an emergency situation, should be made in advance of leaving the dock. Crew would be allowed to decide who is going to be responsible for keeping them alive, and if they don't like the choice, they can stay at the dock. Frankly, I don't give a frig about ownership. If the "Captain" has the clear edge on experience, he can be in charge of my boat, and should be. Keep in mind, if it is not injury or life threatening, or dangerous to the boat or others, anyone can make the decisions. Who do you want making the decision when it counts...the guy with enough money to buy a boat or the guy with years of experience? In this activity, as in many, in charge has to do with safety. If you think it is about money, or the investment in the boat, you are not qualified to be captain already, in my opinion.I relate it back to my flying days. Early on, I flew with many people with much more experience than I, and much of that was in my aircraft. As the years went by, I had many opportunities to fly with others with much less experience and ratings than I. There was always a discussion about who had the aircraft if an emergency occurred, and that discussion occurred prior to starting the engine, and the decision had nothing to do with who owned the aircraft. I can't imagine that boats should be any different.Dan Jonas (S.V Feije II)

 

[Lysle]

Interesting Daniel...

that you should equate this question to flying. I too was a pilot for about twelve years and there were a regulation that covered who was in charge. It was simple it was the "pilot in command" (PIC.) But here's the catch... in certain aircraft it was possible for three different people to log PIC time. If you had a "Standards" instructor pilot (IP) in the jump seat, checking a Unit IP in the co-pilots seat, checking a regular pilot in the pilots seat, all three could log PIC time (technically.) But, if something happened that caused an incident/accident, the one who would ultimately be held responsible would be the guy in the jump seat due to the fact, that by virtue of his title, he was the most experienced and should have been able to prevent/avoid the accident/incident even though he wasn't at the controls.This brings me around to my point... I may be the captain of "my" boat but if my friend Jim is onboard, who has about 30 more years experience than I and we get into a sticky situation I will certainly defer to his "better judgment" and willingly turn over the "captains" title to him if the situation warrants. Isn't it common sense to defer to the one with the most experience in any situation where life and limb may be in peril?Just a thought...Regards,Lysle

 

[Daniel Jonas]

Agree

Lyle,I fully agree. You confirmed my point when you indicated that the higher check pilot would be responsible. My point is that the decision is made in advance, as you indicated in an acknowledged chain of command or responsibility. Also being "Captain" in the boating sense does not mean the person at the controls. Heck, the captain may never touch the controls.I don't think that the time of an emergency is a good time to "turn over" command. I still think that an acknowledged chain of command should exist on the boat prior to departure. If the real "Captain" wants to assign a crew person control of the boat then he may, but he may also take it back by saying "I've got command", better that, than misunderstanding when things get rough. Also the crew understands the chain better if the real Captain assigns control duties as part of his basic responsibility. Its difficult to follow if we do not know who is leading.And flying is always a good command analogy. In sailing, we often have some time to figure out the situation, which is good. In flying, often times, the command response needs to be immediate, and if there is an emergency you generally have confirmation that you handled it correctly is a very short period of time....or not.Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)

 

[George B.]

Owner's Responsibility

The owner is ultimately responsible for his vessel irregardless of his relative experience level. I don't think that he can execute a legal bailment by merely saying "you're in charge". He will always be financially and legally liable for the physical and medical damages caused by his vessel. He should be making decisions based on his own best self interest and obligation. Nobody else can make these decisions for him. I agree with Stu, if a crew is throwing his weight around enough to break the "chain of command", I say, "Write me a check for a hundred grand and you can be in charge."We will always be sailing with crews/skippers with skills different than our own. As a skipper, we have an obligation to our crews to not place them in harm's way or otherwise make them uncomfortable (with the possible exception of mother's in law ;-) ). After all, good crew is hard to come by and we want them to come out again. We also want to profit from the experience of others. As crew, we also have an obligation to help out our skippers. They can't grow unless they have an opportunity to exercise their leadership and seamanship skills. I think that sensory overload is a problem for inexperienced skippers. As crew, I try to help out by doing my job well which will help offload part of the burden, so the skipper can concentrate on the problem at hand. Arguing and "discussing" can compound a problem and I'm there to help, not hinder. In twenty-five years of sailing, I can't think of a time when a skipper behaved in such a wantonly negligent manner where a crew member was forced to step in and take over for the safety of the boat and crew (Cane Mutiny anybody?).In regards to decision making, we all have different management styles. My personal style is to be inclusive and to welcome input. However, the cockpit is a poor place for a debating society. In racing, I discuss strategy before hand with my crew. When the warning gun goes off, no more debate, we execute. We're a lot more relaxed when cruising and I'm there to be a good host and show everyone a good time. I find that talking through maneuvers before hand as well as during it, helps out inexperienced crew a lot. And if someone wants to drive the boat? Here's the wheel, I want to relax too.An interesting note on the Coast Guard's opinion on the subject. A couple of months ago the Coast Guard did a safety inspection on a sailboat in the Oakland Estuary. They performed an on board sobriety test which the owner failed. The owner informed the Coasties that he assigned "skipper" duties to a non-drinking member of the crew who was in fact, driving the boat at the time of the boarding. The Coast Guard was unimpressed, and the owner was promptly arrested by the Oakland P.D. for operating a vessel under the influence. I'll let you know how the trial comes out.

 

[Dan]

I agree

George,We agree more than disagree. There is no question that the owner carries liability for his boat, even if he isn't on it at all. But I suspect that having a more qualified Captain in charge would not do his or her defense any harm if it came to that (might not do any good either).My initial response to this thread stemmed from my perception that Stu was saying my way or the highway, after the boat left the dock. Stu did not say anything about someone throwing their weight around, just that they disagreed with a decision. I just think that should be decided before you leave the dock.I'm no lawyer but regarding the Coast Guard arrest, if the guy really wasn't at the helm, I bet the outcome will be charges dropped. Otherwise, we all better make sure no one on the boat drinks at all. I'm not saying he is innocent, and I do think the owner of the boat should be sober as well as the Captain, but come-on, they need to do better than that.Dan Jonas (S/V Feijee II)

 

[Ron]

The Captain is in charge

On a recent coastal passage from Mass. to Maine, I had a crew of 3 besides myself. Prior to the start, I made out a trip plan, discussed it with them as a group, & gave a copy to each "crew dog." This plan included the "sailing orders."The sailing orders spelled out my rules for a safe & efficient passage. Included were clear rules regarding "unity of command": who was my designated "second in command" in case I wasn't aboard or became incapacitated, the watch schedule (it was a long 23 hour passage), who was "in charge of things on-deck" during each watch, when to call me (or the #2) on deck for a decision, log entries, plotting position, etc. Also, no alchohol consumption within 6 hours of being on watch (which precluded any drinking on the long passages since everyone pulled a watch every four hours.)Also included were my personal rules about safety & sanitation issues: inflatable lifejackets & shoes worn on deck, ascending/descending the ladder facing the stern, nobody goes forward of the cockpit without permission of the helmsman, "real gentlemen sit whilst using the head", washing dishes, wiping up spills, etc.This might sound a bit excessive, but it worked out well. People knew what I expected & why, and we didn't need to resolve these issues under way. They felt empowered -- we got consensus before leaving my living room at home, not on a rain/wave swept tossing deck. I was able to balance crew personaliies, skills, & experience, and I got some rest underway knowing things were under control in spite of some rough weather.....On day sails, many of these rules still apply but I verbally brief passengers/crew who haven't sailed with me to ensure they understand. That includes a hands-on walkthrough of where the thru-hull valves are, where the safety gear is & how to use it, how to pump the head, etc.....PS: If anyone is interested in a copy of this trip plan (in MS Word ".doc" format), contact me via email.--Ron

 

[Dan]

email?

Ron,Could not find you in the owner directory under Westford MA. I would not mind a copy of what you put together. Email is dan.jonas@starband.net.Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)

 

[Walter Jones]

Who ever is at the helm....

Makes the choices about when to tack, when to reef and what course to steer. Other than that we usually ask each other for their input. My wife and I are fairly new at this sailing stuff and she does as well as I do driving and trimming the sails, maybe better sometimes. She is very into the whole thing and when the boat heels over she grins and giggles like a schoolgirl on her first date. In fact when she is driving and the wind is high I sometimes hold the mainsheet so I can spill some wind if our passangers start to cringe. She won't head up untill water is going past the windows. But when we are anchored and its time to cook I try to stay out of the way and hand her stuff. She is a way better at cooking than either of us are at being captins.