Decision Time

May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
KappyKaplan: You're powered up for the winds you're sailing in but not for the scenario you're about to encounter -- I wish I'd never suggested 12 knots. I only used that number because I didn't want mates to consider reefing as an option. Let's use a wind speed a sailor would be comfortable sailing in just before reefing and that number is different for each person. Sorry about the confusion.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Know yourself, know your boat. Always sail smart and safe. If you are not racing, add 'comfortable' to that list.


As you approach, estimate the wind increase and it's effect on your apparent wind speed. If you think it will put you into a totally different band, ready reefing controls. If you want to take it real easy, reef before you get to it.

Knowing your boat means knowing how it best handles the new (choppy) conditions. If it has the power to 'power up' and punch through, do as joe says and add some fullness to the sails. If the boat is lighter, often footing slightly off works better.

Our First 36.7 likes to blow thru. Our First 260 likes to crack off, and use her long waterline to make better speed.
 
May 1, 2011
4,248
Pearson 37 Lusby MD
Know yourself, know your boat. Always sail smart and safe. If you are not racing, add 'comfortable' to that list.


As you approach, estimate the wind increase and it's effect on your apparent wind speed. If you think it will put you into a totally different band, ready reefing controls. If you want to take it real easy, reef before you get to it.

Knowing your boat means knowing how it best handles the new (choppy) conditions. If it has the power to 'power up' and punch through, do as joe says and add some fullness to the sails. If the boat is lighter, often footing slightly off works better.

Our First 36.7 likes to blow thru. Our First 260 likes to crack off, and use her long waterline to make better speed.
Well-stated, Jackdaw!
 

marian

.
May 21, 2010
47
beneteau beneteau 351 Penetanguishene
12 knots, full sails, have fun. Power up head sail to have less bounce if choppy.

Marian
 

BayMan

.
Sep 12, 2012
203
Hunter 450 Unspecified
12 knots? That's just getting into the fun zone. I would turn my hat around and power up the sails and grab me a barley pop.

Or maybe I would try to flatten my main and jib to keep the same headway in heavier wind and let out the main to reduce heel to keep the wifey happy.
 
Jun 2, 2013
37
Catalina 27 Vancouver
Good thread. Fun comments.

Go big or go home is definitely netting the choice to go big. After all, we wouldn't have earned the right to own the boat in the first place (and have that pretty thing w tan lines lying on the bow) if we were the kind to go big. So here goes....

Here's my take, based on a few patterns in the suggestions so far:

1) "Power up the sails to punch through chop". Here some folks have recommended "loosening" sails. Seems to really be saying increase in draft to create more drive. Common at lower speed and winds with chop, this is equivalent to using low gear in the mud: Loosen outhaul, move jib car forward, loosen backstay. This is the wrong strategy with mounting winds. We are going to power through that chop w speed and momentum, not drive. Using low gear will reduce hull speed and increase heel. Wife will be decidedly unhappy! If you chose this you should have gone home and bought a 4x4.

2) Reduce heel to improve performance (and comfort. Here we seem to be debating reefing and/furling or switching to smaller sail. Ie: reducing sail area. Some folks have also suggested falling off to a reach. All good here. Any more than 20 deg heel and we are spinning our wheels, and if we can tackle the route w a more favorable point of sail (more speed for same deg of heel), we're winning. We can even make a show of reducing sail and changing course as a response to the conditions to prove to the wife we have her comfort and safety at heart. Brownie points earned. Unless of course we make her help with/do the sail change or reef. Some guys just never learn.

3) Flatten sails to increase speed. A different version of "powering up to punch through chop", but using speed instead of drive. Good move. Recommendations here focus on blading out the sails: Moving jib car back, tightening outhaul, halyard and backstay. Can use these tactics in combination w #2 above. By she won't notice these, just see us grunting as we haul on ropes while she holds our beer. Maybe our manly grunts will impress her. Downside is we are going faster, which she may or may not like. Would be a shame to waste all that grunting. Course it's the right thing to do (a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do) and helps reduce heel (more brownie points).

4) Spill wind. "If in doubt let it out" is a great rule, except when deployed in pursuit of a lubberly outcome. Flapping anything never impressed the wife.

5) Twist (not directly mentioned). Someone incorrectly suggested moving the traveller to windward. You zigged when you should have zagged and caught a bullet there sailor (but don't worry, she won't notice your mistake). Leward if you please Mr. Zag in mounting winds. Unless... You are trying to increase twist, by also sheeting out, which can be helpful in spilling wind off the top of the main, but only if you keep the vang loose, otherwise your just luffing the main since if the boom can't rise, you won't get twist. Same goes for the jib: jib car full back, slight ease of the sheet, loosens the upper leech. Course you'll be impressing yourself with fancy sail trim, and she won't notice at all, just that your geeking out on your "other girl", instead of keeping her happy cracking jokes and telling her how hot she looks w sea spray on her as you bury the rail.

Bottom line gentlemen: If you go big, with high value passengers on board, just remember: If she feels sexy you score. If she feels comfortable you win. If she feels safe you're home free. Adjust your sails accordingly.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,085
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Oh yeah ...

Good thread. Fun comments.


Bottom line gentlemen: If you go big, with high value passengers on board, just remember: If she feels sexy you score. If she feels comfortable you win. If she feels safe you're home free. Adjust your sails accordingly.
I don't recall all of what you just said but the conclusion sounds good to me! :D
 

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
Great Post Jua da Jour! Points to you for understanding relationships: Now if she was more consistent, we would have better luck understanding what is the right answer.

Don: was going for no tan lines = good views for you. ;O)
 
May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Apex: Here's what I was getting at -- "there's a situation developing that a mate is going to have to react to and that probably he can't sail through it with his present set up". It is not reefing conditions, but could develop to that stage, and my mistake was picking a low wind speed, but too low, to prevent reefing to enter into the discussion. Putting that aside, my thought process is the increased wind speed and conditions will make my present sail trim ineffective so what will I need to do? The bottom line is I'm going to have to "power up" the boat".

The correct answer is a combination of thoughts from our old stand bye's Stu J, and Joe from San Diego and also Jackdaw (I just finished a book with that title), Joidevivre, Scott & Weinie -- RichH must be on vacation somewhere!!

No tan lines are tough to find in So Ca, especially Long Beach harbor -- too many boats around!!
 
Jul 28, 2010
914
Boston Whaler Montauk New Orleans
Now if she was more consistent, we would have better luck understanding what is the right answer.
Dream on, Apex!! There are some things beyond man's comprehension. Understanding women is one of them. ;)
 
Oct 27, 2012
35
Hunter / Pearson H19 & 1987 Pearson 31-2 Tarpon Springs
Really... 12 kts & light chop.... that's perfect sailing weather for me, unless you are on a Laser or Sunfish... Get your wife in the cockpit (or not) and let out a little on the sheets and maybe (probably) set a preventer on the main, and have fun!

If that is not to your liking maybe you should sell your boat and go on a cruise ship!
 
May 21, 2009
360
Hunter 30 Smithfield, VA
12 kts of wind is delightful with my 30 under full sail, but chop should be considered. Ease the outhaul a bit to get a little belly in the main (like dropping the flaps) and get more power for the waves. Consider moving the genoa fairlead 1 notch forward to power the jib (not sure the jib answer is right)
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
I'd tend to agree with Stu and Joe. Increasing wind will power up the sails. Probably have a wind shift but will make that call when that happens.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,006
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
What really happens!

Interesting scenario that Don has put out.

I've actually made that sail many times; both in my former boat, a Pearson 30, and in the Bavaria 38 we have now. The winds are typically light around Newport Harbor; they increase toward Long Beach and especially more so toward afternoon (sea breeze). It's about a 16 n. mi. sail from the channel entrance at Newport Harbor to inside the Long Beach breakwater.

The wind typically begins to freshen after passing the Huntington Beach Pier; definitely getting up when about 8 n. mi. distant from LB Harbor. The wind chop gets up & lumpy partly b/c of the so-called Huntington Flats that you're sailing over; a relatively shallow area that extends from the oil platforms northwest of the pier to Long Beach. An important point is where you are sailing relative to the beach. Are you within two miles of the beach, or further out? If able to hold a close-hauled course, the beach tends away from you; thus, making room to leeward as you progress along your course to LB. So if within, say, just 2 n. mi. at the pier you'll get another half mile or so of sea room before reaching Long Beach.

For people who know this, the "Decision" is made upon leaving Newport Harbor. Sail close-hauled on starboard tack until about 3 n. mi. from the beach then close-hauled on port tack heading NW. As the wind starts to strengthen & gust up from the SW or W, you can begin to sail higher. By the time you reach the windy, choppy-sloppy area of the Huntington Flats you're in a position to crack off to a close reach; and reach for the east end of the Long Beach breakwater. You may eventually see 18 - 20 kt true wind, but b/c the beach is tending away there's room to keep bearing off some with the same sail. If you pay attention to what you are doing you can be reaching in under a 155% genoa, main lugging some with traveler down; out-haul tight; with the seas off your port bow- not quite abeam (although I usually do take the headsail in some.)

It's a glorious sail:)!; however, you can get spray:doh:. Upon passing behind the breakwater the seas go nearly flat but the wind is still good. Three more miles to my marina; still making 7+ kt over the ground. No worries;)!
 
May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Re: What really happens!

Years ago on a Catalina 25, which I had owned for about 2 weeks, I got caught in the Huntington Flats (which I'd never heard of or knew about at the time). We were motoring and I was unfamiliar with the motor, which wasn't in the best shape to begin with. Anyway, I got caught in the waves coming in and those going out and the motor swamped and died.

As I was "scraping out my underwear with a stick" and trying to get the motor started and at the same time trying to think of what to do next -- my wife calmly said "why don't we raise the sails and sail out of here??". What a BRILLIANT idea and that's exactly what I did but on future sails I steered well clear of that place. I also bought a new motor!!
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,006
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
The heavy boats cruise the Flats with impunity. On one of the trips my wife and I marveled at a couple of nearly-matched Hans Christians sailing to the weather of us, and on a higher point of sail, heading further up the breakwater to Queen's Gate, in the strong afternoon winds with the steep wind chop. When one sees those lovely big heavies sailing out there in the big stuff, it just makes you want to have one of your own!!!
 
Oct 27, 2012
35
Hunter / Pearson H19 & 1987 Pearson 31-2 Tarpon Springs
What decision, beer or wine...

I guess I am missing something here...

Is there some big bad weather system threatening to ruin your day here???

It sounds like a great sailing day to me.
 
Jun 9, 2013
7
Hunter 33 Oriental nc
I guess I am missing something here...

Is there some big bad weather system threatening to ruin your day here???

It sounds like a great sailing day to me.
Yep sounds like a great day sailing with that being said I may be the captain.:dance:
HOWEVER she is the admiral and iffina I remember correctly she outranks me!:eek:
comfort comfort comfort! if she aint happy aint no one happy. If we are not trying to make time to get to the next port/cold beer.(no drinking and sailing!! Until we are snugged down in our next port of call :dance:) Keep her happy and I win.
BTW here on the east coast where I live them tan lines are far and few between. :D
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,006
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Admirals

My "Admiral" used to drag race as a teenager [likes thrill] so races with me and helms; hates motoring in a sailboat ["I'd rather be sailing."]; does not like sailing in light air [boring]. Says-- "I rather have white knuckles holding onto the wheel than be 'drifting' in 5 knots of wind", etc. So, we can be "happy" at the same time! [But not too fond of cold & wet!]