Chuck my sympathy to you and your wife. I'm sorry if my post has made you relive that tragic day. God bless
Death warning
- Thread starter Roger Long
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Appoligy not neccisary
TAke care and FAir winds my friend. look forward to seeing you on the sounds.
Chuck
No apoligy neccisary,, Just a reminder to everyone to live each days as it may be the last. Jacob was a very loving child aand would have been a great sailor. I had taken him sailing a few times prior and like most kids ,, wanted to buy our own boat. So I named the boat Jacob's Dream and have a nice photo of the 2 of us sailing.
TAke care and FAir winds my friend. look forward to seeing you on the sounds.
Chuck
i certainly do not wish to brush off the tragedies that some of you have related. I am a father and the idea of my son coming to a premature end is abhorrent.
That said, I think we need to understand that life is dangerous. I will not criticize those who I feel are too cautious, but I will weigh in with my opinion.
I do believe that being too concerned about one's personal safety can promote a sort of self fulfilling prophecy. Great athletes use imagery to succeed. If one's imagery is of disaster, I think that can be the problem.
I certainly do not wear a helmet aboard and rarely don a pfd unless I am single handing. 35 years and thousands of miles and I am still here as is all of my crew. I thinks you can be too careful. Enjoy life while you are here - take reasonable precautions - and realize that you may be gone tomorrow. It is not the length of a book that makes it good.
That said, I think we need to understand that life is dangerous. I will not criticize those who I feel are too cautious, but I will weigh in with my opinion.
I do believe that being too concerned about one's personal safety can promote a sort of self fulfilling prophecy. Great athletes use imagery to succeed. If one's imagery is of disaster, I think that can be the problem.
I certainly do not wear a helmet aboard and rarely don a pfd unless I am single handing. 35 years and thousands of miles and I am still here as is all of my crew. I thinks you can be too careful. Enjoy life while you are here - take reasonable precautions - and realize that you may be gone tomorrow. It is not the length of a book that makes it good.
Chuck, I'm sorry to hear that, I can still hear your pain. It's something that every parent fears.
Three years ago we were skiing at Mt. Ste. Anne, Quebec, I was first up and headed out to catch the first runs on fresh snow. Flying down the slopes all by myself, I felt very exposed without a helmet. When I got to the bottom, I went straight intot he ski shop, bought a helmet and have worn one since.
Years ago, we drove cars without seatbelts and air bags, rode motorbikes, bicycles, and skied without helmets. PFD's were minimal. VHF, EIPRB, flares did not exist. Now we do most or all. Safety is developed and sometimes mandated. You can't go out in life in bubble wrap every day, but taking precautions and using safety equipment that is available to you when required or when you feel safer using is a wise decision.
Three years ago we were skiing at Mt. Ste. Anne, Quebec, I was first up and headed out to catch the first runs on fresh snow. Flying down the slopes all by myself, I felt very exposed without a helmet. When I got to the bottom, I went straight intot he ski shop, bought a helmet and have worn one since.
Years ago, we drove cars without seatbelts and air bags, rode motorbikes, bicycles, and skied without helmets. PFD's were minimal. VHF, EIPRB, flares did not exist. Now we do most or all. Safety is developed and sometimes mandated. You can't go out in life in bubble wrap every day, but taking precautions and using safety equipment that is available to you when required or when you feel safer using is a wise decision.
In case it happens
As an RN at a level 1 trauma center I have a few suggestions. If you have a crew member that takes a blow to the head you need to watch them very closely. Look at their pupils, they should be the same size and react briskly to changes in light. Watch for confusion, agitation, or becoming combative. Complaints of "The worst headache ever", projectile vomiting or not being able to wake them up should all be red flags. Any one with these symptoms needs immediate medical care. Call for help, now! Being an hour away form dock could be to long!
Chuck my heart goes out to you. I have had way to many parents ask me "Why? Why my child." and there is never anything you can say to easy there pain.
Should we all stay home to avoid all risks? No way. I have seen people die from anything from plane crashes to tripping on a rug in their living room. Just try to be careful no matter what you are doing.
As an RN at a level 1 trauma center I have a few suggestions. If you have a crew member that takes a blow to the head you need to watch them very closely. Look at their pupils, they should be the same size and react briskly to changes in light. Watch for confusion, agitation, or becoming combative. Complaints of "The worst headache ever", projectile vomiting or not being able to wake them up should all be red flags. Any one with these symptoms needs immediate medical care. Call for help, now! Being an hour away form dock could be to long!
Chuck my heart goes out to you. I have had way to many parents ask me "Why? Why my child." and there is never anything you can say to easy there pain.
Should we all stay home to avoid all risks? No way. I have seen people die from anything from plane crashes to tripping on a rug in their living room. Just try to be careful no matter what you are doing.
San Francisco
I never wear a helmet while riding my bicycle, wore one on my motorcycle only when it was cold and I doubt I would ever wear one on a sailboat unless I was to ride out a storm like Franklin did. Of course I will probably die sooner than most because of it.
rardi-I just flew into San Antonio last night from San Francisco. My wife had never been there. She liked it so much that she agreed to live on the boat so long as we were somewhere near pier 39. I bet there is a long waiting list there.
I have never been on vacation and not missed home. However neither one of us wanted to come home after being there a week.
One of those pics is the view from the restaurant at the top of the grnad hyatt where we stayed. The picture does not do it justice. It was the most breathtaking view of scenery I have ever seen. The other is a pic of a vacant slip I would like our boat to occupy at pier 39.
I never wear a helmet while riding my bicycle, wore one on my motorcycle only when it was cold and I doubt I would ever wear one on a sailboat unless I was to ride out a storm like Franklin did. Of course I will probably die sooner than most because of it.
rardi-I just flew into San Antonio last night from San Francisco. My wife had never been there. She liked it so much that she agreed to live on the boat so long as we were somewhere near pier 39. I bet there is a long waiting list there.
I have never been on vacation and not missed home. However neither one of us wanted to come home after being there a week.
One of those pics is the view from the restaurant at the top of the grnad hyatt where we stayed. The picture does not do it justice. It was the most breathtaking view of scenery I have ever seen. The other is a pic of a vacant slip I would like our boat to occupy at pier 39.
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Hermit, you came all the way here and didn't
see rardi, all the others of us here and me! How dare you!
Sorry we missed you.
You would get tired of Pier 39 very quickly. Their slips are for purchase, not rental. The smell and noise from the sealions on the west side of the pier would get to you very quickly. The commercial traffic is noisy and horrible. The surge is worse. It's not the most boater friendly marina and is a tremendous hike to get from your car to the boat. The east side, where the recreational boats are kept, gets in the shade after lunchtime, everyday, and is cold, cold, cold. All of the slips are sideways to the prevailing summer winds. Your picture caught what could be the best moment it's ever had!
Other than that, it's a nice place to visit occasionally, not too bad.
We have lotsa better, more user friendly marinas. When you and your wife and your boat ocme here, we'll all be glad to show you around. Have a great season.
see rardi, all the others of us here and me! How dare you!
Sorry we missed you.You would get tired of Pier 39 very quickly. Their slips are for purchase, not rental. The smell and noise from the sealions on the west side of the pier would get to you very quickly. The commercial traffic is noisy and horrible. The surge is worse. It's not the most boater friendly marina and is a tremendous hike to get from your car to the boat. The east side, where the recreational boats are kept, gets in the shade after lunchtime, everyday, and is cold, cold, cold. All of the slips are sideways to the prevailing summer winds. Your picture caught what could be the best moment it's ever had!
Other than that, it's a nice place to visit occasionally, not too bad.
We have lotsa better, more user friendly marinas. When you and your wife and your boat ocme here, we'll all be glad to show you around. Have a great season.
So, why not pad the boom?
I do wear a hard hat at work, where required. Anywhere falling objects are possible or some places where there are head bump hazards. However, we also pad (generally with pipe insulation) many low pipes that are known head-knockers.
I have a bicycle helmet. You can engineer the effectiveness of a bike helmet, since a fall is always from the same height. The same is true of motorcycle helmets, though the challenge is greater.
I do have a climbing helmet. I have climbed for 25 years, helped with a number of rescues, including 2 stiffs. Both stiffs were wearing helmets in areas where helmet use is rare, and I believe both of the stiffs thought that gear would protect them and pressed further than if they had been less armored. I do wear the helmet in areas where ice or rockfall are prevalent. That is what climbing helmets can protect against - small rocks and icicles. If the climber falls any considerable distance - much over 10 feet - and hits his head, the helmet will do little.
If I were concerned enough about the boom to wear a helmet - and on many boats that is a valid concern because it is at a nasty height - I would pad the boom with some closed cell foam. Easily done. I padded the end of the mast on my last boat, to protect the deck when I dropped sail (no lift).
And of course up the mast under-way, the helmet, life jacket (ribs), and knee pads all seem smart.
Depending on the boat and the weather, I sometimes wear knee pads. 2 past surgeries from bicycle racing.
I do wear a hard hat at work, where required. Anywhere falling objects are possible or some places where there are head bump hazards. However, we also pad (generally with pipe insulation) many low pipes that are known head-knockers.
I have a bicycle helmet. You can engineer the effectiveness of a bike helmet, since a fall is always from the same height. The same is true of motorcycle helmets, though the challenge is greater.
I do have a climbing helmet. I have climbed for 25 years, helped with a number of rescues, including 2 stiffs. Both stiffs were wearing helmets in areas where helmet use is rare, and I believe both of the stiffs thought that gear would protect them and pressed further than if they had been less armored. I do wear the helmet in areas where ice or rockfall are prevalent. That is what climbing helmets can protect against - small rocks and icicles. If the climber falls any considerable distance - much over 10 feet - and hits his head, the helmet will do little.
If I were concerned enough about the boom to wear a helmet - and on many boats that is a valid concern because it is at a nasty height - I would pad the boom with some closed cell foam. Easily done. I padded the end of the mast on my last boat, to protect the deck when I dropped sail (no lift).
And of course up the mast under-way, the helmet, life jacket (ribs), and knee pads all seem smart.
Depending on the boat and the weather, I sometimes wear knee pads. 2 past surgeries from bicycle racing.
Stu-I intended to take your advice and take the ferry to Sausalito and I wanted to drink a beer on the floating barge-homemade island thing, but there just wasn't enough time. I even stayed an extra half day but we only accomplished a breakfast at this exsclusive San Francisco breakfast house, I think it was called "Denny's" and then walked to China town for some affordable gifts for our friends.
I wanted to go out on the bay so bad, I was close to abandoning all etiquet and trying to invite myself aboard one of your boats for a day sail but I wouldn't have had the time this trip anyway.
I think you already talked me out of pier 39. What does a slip cost there. I saw one for sale in Corpus for $8,900. I was excited about spending the summer on my boat because the Corpus Christi marina is downtown like the one's in San Francisco but now I know how much Corpus falls short of there.
I wanted to go out on the bay so bad, I was close to abandoning all etiquet and trying to invite myself aboard one of your boats for a day sail but I wouldn't have had the time this trip anyway.
I think you already talked me out of pier 39. What does a slip cost there. I saw one for sale in Corpus for $8,900. I was excited about spending the summer on my boat because the Corpus Christi marina is downtown like the one's in San Francisco but now I know how much Corpus falls short of there.
Hi Roger
Ive been deeply involved in EMS since its inception - EMT, EMT Instr., Paramedic and Paramed Instr., Ski Patroller, etc. etc. etc.
Truly, Head trauma is the most devastating injury, responsible for much more than half of all trauma fatalities.
The most interesting thing about heqad trauma is that its not always evident immediately after 'impact', sometimes taking a very long time to 'develop', sometimes as long as days or sometimes very rarely weeks after the impact.
The KEY to early assessment is the 'changing/declining level of consciousness, followed by a SLOWING pulse rate.
For adults, anyone who VOMITS shortly after head impact is usually in BIG trouble. Kids commonly vomit after a head smack ... and that may be normal BUT when an adult vomits after a head hit it 99% of the time spells BIG trouble.
The key for any possibility for recovery is DO SOMETHING / GO TO A HOSPITAL if you or those with you experience:
Blurry vision / double vision
Personality changes / irritability
slowing pulse rate (less than 60 per minute is a REAL bad sign)
Unconsciousness for more than 20 seconds.
Repeated or sequential sessions of 'unconsciouness'.
Unequal pupils, one sided weakness are usually 'late state' sign .... the changing level of consciousness usually 'comes first'.
Most of these symptoms and signs may be transient BUT one really needs to be evaluated at an EMERGENCY ROOM to differentiate between a 'concussion' and a true (life threatening) head (brain) injury.
..... and yes, both my wife and I wore helmets when we campaigned our M20 scow ... with dam good reason (besides the boom being held lower than ones head). I wouldnt think of skiing / ski-patrolling as I do without a helmet. Ive seen too damn many fatalities and forever destroyed lives - mostly due to 'head trauma'.
Previously the treatment for head trauma was always 'so-so' ... a big gamble. Ive been associated with several of the leading trauma centers due to my avocation; the 'modern' / new treatments (and understanding) is radically changing the rate of suceessful recovery .... but, you, as a patient, need to be evaluated promptly and not 'waiting around' until you become 'irreversible'.
Hit your head enough to experience any 'changes' or momentary loss of soncsiousness - GET YOUR ASS TO A HOSPITAL.
regards
RichH
Ive been deeply involved in EMS since its inception - EMT, EMT Instr., Paramedic and Paramed Instr., Ski Patroller, etc. etc. etc.
Truly, Head trauma is the most devastating injury, responsible for much more than half of all trauma fatalities.
The most interesting thing about heqad trauma is that its not always evident immediately after 'impact', sometimes taking a very long time to 'develop', sometimes as long as days or sometimes very rarely weeks after the impact.
The KEY to early assessment is the 'changing/declining level of consciousness, followed by a SLOWING pulse rate.
For adults, anyone who VOMITS shortly after head impact is usually in BIG trouble. Kids commonly vomit after a head smack ... and that may be normal BUT when an adult vomits after a head hit it 99% of the time spells BIG trouble.
The key for any possibility for recovery is DO SOMETHING / GO TO A HOSPITAL if you or those with you experience:
Blurry vision / double vision
Personality changes / irritability
slowing pulse rate (less than 60 per minute is a REAL bad sign)
Unconsciousness for more than 20 seconds.
Repeated or sequential sessions of 'unconsciouness'.
Unequal pupils, one sided weakness are usually 'late state' sign .... the changing level of consciousness usually 'comes first'.
Most of these symptoms and signs may be transient BUT one really needs to be evaluated at an EMERGENCY ROOM to differentiate between a 'concussion' and a true (life threatening) head (brain) injury.
..... and yes, both my wife and I wore helmets when we campaigned our M20 scow ... with dam good reason (besides the boom being held lower than ones head). I wouldnt think of skiing / ski-patrolling as I do without a helmet. Ive seen too damn many fatalities and forever destroyed lives - mostly due to 'head trauma'.
Previously the treatment for head trauma was always 'so-so' ... a big gamble. Ive been associated with several of the leading trauma centers due to my avocation; the 'modern' / new treatments (and understanding) is radically changing the rate of suceessful recovery .... but, you, as a patient, need to be evaluated promptly and not 'waiting around' until you become 'irreversible'.
Hit your head enough to experience any 'changes' or momentary loss of soncsiousness - GET YOUR ASS TO A HOSPITAL.
regards
RichH
Hermit's short SF visit
Good. Prices are usually listed in ads in Latitude 38. Good for you on your summer plans. I just talked to a fellow C34IA member in Corpus Christi, don't know where he keeps his boat. It was damaged in a lightning strike a year and a half ago and he's just getting back to it, due to family health issues. If you see Bob Harper, say hello for me (C34 #1283) - it'll knock his socks off -- small world!
The only time I ever ran aground
...was in the marina at Pier 39.
And Stu's right, it was cold. But it sure is a great city. As I recall there's a huge marina at the north end of the Embarcadero that always looked pretty good to me.
...was in the marina at Pier 39.
And Stu's right, it was cold. But it sure is a great city. As I recall there's a huge marina at the north end of the Embarcadero that always looked pretty good to me.
Geography esson?
Can someone else from here give Phil a geography lesson on SF marinas and their locations???
Pier 39
I worked on Pier 39 when they (re)built it to make it what it is now. It as one of the coldest jobs I ever worked on - not because of the temperature, but because of the wind and dampness.
Also a note to Rich: I hope you don't mind if I take what you wrote on head injuries and send it around to some people I know, including the parents of my grandchildren.
I worked on Pier 39 when they (re)built it to make it what it is now. It as one of the coldest jobs I ever worked on - not because of the temperature, but because of the wind and dampness.
Also a note to Rich: I hope you don't mind if I take what you wrote on head injuries and send it around to some people I know, including the parents of my grandchildren.
One of the coldest times I ever spent was across a little bay from the old Candlestick Park...like John said, not temperature cold...damp and windy!
Jack
Jack
Oh, yeah? San Francisco cold?
1. How about Duluth in January - ya want cold???
2. John, why scare them? I trust they read newspapers. Not only will they start worrying about the grandkids, they'll start worrying about you!
1. How about Duluth in January - ya want cold???
2. John, why scare them? I trust they read newspapers. Not only will they start worrying about the grandkids, they'll start worrying about you!
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Padded dashboards in car greatly reduced head injuries startin the 70's.
Padded gloves greatly reduced ring brain injuries. The floor is also padded. The bare knuckle result is not at all the same. Give Mike Tyson and aluminum fist an I predict a depressed skull fracture every time.
Padding the aft half of the boom is no cure-all, very true, but if the hazard is important, it can't be dismissed, though I predict we will dismiss it as unfashionable.
Padded dash boards in car were met with some derision in the 70's, but in combination with seat belts, they save a lot of teeth and head injuries. A forehead fracture was common when I was a kid. Now it is far less common.
Padded gloves greatly reduced ring brain injuries. The floor is also padded. The bare knuckle result is not at all the same. Give Mike Tyson and aluminum fist an I predict a depressed skull fracture every time.
Padding the aft half of the boom is no cure-all, very true, but if the hazard is important, it can't be dismissed, though I predict we will dismiss it as unfashionable.
Re: Padded dashboards in car greatly reduced head injuries startin the 70's.
Padded dash boards were accompanied with seat belts. The lady concerned at the start of this thread fell on snow. She probably didn't even have a bump to show for her fall.
Padded dash boards were accompanied with seat belts. The lady concerned at the start of this thread fell on snow. She probably didn't even have a bump to show for her fall.
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