I am looking for thoughts on the relative merits of having the dealer or an independent electronics guy install some electronics on a new boat. Or is this something for an intrepid do-it-yourselfer. I am talking about a VHF w/RAM mic, a GPS/Chartplotter and a stereo. Seems to me that the dealer prices are way out of line. On the VHF, they're asking $1200 on a unit that sells for $400 or so with antenea and about $4000 on a chart plotter that goes for $2000. Any thoughts?
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WOW
If you are handy with tools, can run wire and make all electrical connections yourself, just do it yourself. If the mast is up, you will need help running the antenna wire for the VHF and placing the antenna at the top of the mast. Be prepared to do some drilling and placing of fittings. This is not difficut, just do it right to avoid leaks. Save the money and gain the satisfaction of doing a good job yourself along with knowing how it was done.
If you are handy with tools, can run wire and make all electrical connections yourself, just do it yourself. If the mast is up, you will need help running the antenna wire for the VHF and placing the antenna at the top of the mast. Be prepared to do some drilling and placing of fittings. This is not difficut, just do it right to avoid leaks. Save the money and gain the satisfaction of doing a good job yourself along with knowing how it was done.
Choices
Eric, On our first boat we did it ourselves. I agree with the other posts regarding necessary skill level, it does help to understand the basics of boat wiring. A few good books on the subject would help a lot. We found a good local supplier and bought the equipment through them. We also had them come up after the install and help with calibration and just to look things over. We installed radar, dual chart plotters, all ST60 instruments, two additional batteries and associated switches, and a Link 20. We had the dealer do the install of the mast equipment. On our second boat we had the same equipment supplier do the work. Frankly, I would have liked to do it myself but the time constraints just did not allow it at the time. The nice part was that I really trusted the pricing and good service from the previous experience and I knew exactly what I wanted and how I wanted it installed. I agree that the factory direct pricing is just too high. It's too bad too, becuase they could sell a lot more equipment than they do if they got a little competitive about it. Doing the install at the factory should be as inexpensive as anybody can get because the access to drop in the cables is the best it will ever be. I also like the local shop because I don't think most of the commissioning crew know an awful lot about the electronics, and that would be your first stop in a warrantee issue. I get very good service from my local guy if I have a problem. Even to the point of walking me through a preliminary checklist on the phone to figure out what is going on. And, they do understand the electronics. It took us a little effort to find the right shop. We visitied all the main local ones at the first boat show we attended after purchase but before delivery. The shops nearest our home port did not make much effort to introduce us to the variety of equipment and features, even after we told them we were getting a new boat and shopping for a list of gear. We finally visited a booth were the business location was actually several hours drive from our home. They welcomed us, spent several hours explaing the features of every component, and basically walked us though much that we needed to know right then. They aren't very convenient from a locational standpoint, but we would go no where else now. There's a lesson there for the suppliers out there. They got two boats from us in 18 months. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Eric, On our first boat we did it ourselves. I agree with the other posts regarding necessary skill level, it does help to understand the basics of boat wiring. A few good books on the subject would help a lot. We found a good local supplier and bought the equipment through them. We also had them come up after the install and help with calibration and just to look things over. We installed radar, dual chart plotters, all ST60 instruments, two additional batteries and associated switches, and a Link 20. We had the dealer do the install of the mast equipment. On our second boat we had the same equipment supplier do the work. Frankly, I would have liked to do it myself but the time constraints just did not allow it at the time. The nice part was that I really trusted the pricing and good service from the previous experience and I knew exactly what I wanted and how I wanted it installed. I agree that the factory direct pricing is just too high. It's too bad too, becuase they could sell a lot more equipment than they do if they got a little competitive about it. Doing the install at the factory should be as inexpensive as anybody can get because the access to drop in the cables is the best it will ever be. I also like the local shop because I don't think most of the commissioning crew know an awful lot about the electronics, and that would be your first stop in a warrantee issue. I get very good service from my local guy if I have a problem. Even to the point of walking me through a preliminary checklist on the phone to figure out what is going on. And, they do understand the electronics. It took us a little effort to find the right shop. We visitied all the main local ones at the first boat show we attended after purchase but before delivery. The shops nearest our home port did not make much effort to introduce us to the variety of equipment and features, even after we told them we were getting a new boat and shopping for a list of gear. We finally visited a booth were the business location was actually several hours drive from our home. They welcomed us, spent several hours explaing the features of every component, and basically walked us though much that we needed to know right then. They aren't very convenient from a locational standpoint, but we would go no where else now. There's a lesson there for the suppliers out there. They got two boats from us in 18 months. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
NEW Boat?
On a truly NEW boat, you might find that some of the basic provisioning for things like a VHF and stereo have been done by the manufacturer. Most every boat will get a vhf, it sort of becomes an issue of just which one, and where it gets mounted. The antenna will most probably be at the masthead, and the builder just may have pre-run the coax up the mast for the person that eventually installs the antenna! The difference between just mounting an antenna and plugging into a pigtail at the top of the mast vs. running the wire can be dramatic - and all it cost the builder was about $10 in coax and a few minutes to thread it through the mast. Same with some speaker wiring. My C350 came with speaker wiring prerun to the probable location for speakers within both the cabin, and out to the stern rails (where I installed speakers under the stern rail seats). No big deal to install $2 of wire during the build, big headache to install after the boat is complete. Long story short - check out what provisions your builder might have included to make your installations easier - and make your choices according to your skills (and access to appropriate tools), the time you have available, and how much disposable income you feel like parting with. Good Luck! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle, WA
On a truly NEW boat, you might find that some of the basic provisioning for things like a VHF and stereo have been done by the manufacturer. Most every boat will get a vhf, it sort of becomes an issue of just which one, and where it gets mounted. The antenna will most probably be at the masthead, and the builder just may have pre-run the coax up the mast for the person that eventually installs the antenna! The difference between just mounting an antenna and plugging into a pigtail at the top of the mast vs. running the wire can be dramatic - and all it cost the builder was about $10 in coax and a few minutes to thread it through the mast. Same with some speaker wiring. My C350 came with speaker wiring prerun to the probable location for speakers within both the cabin, and out to the stern rails (where I installed speakers under the stern rail seats). No big deal to install $2 of wire during the build, big headache to install after the boat is complete. Long story short - check out what provisions your builder might have included to make your installations easier - and make your choices according to your skills (and access to appropriate tools), the time you have available, and how much disposable income you feel like parting with. Good Luck! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle, WA
Consensus
The boat is new. Sounds like the consensus is that this install is a do it yourself possibility. Perhaps I'll see if the dealer wants to run the VHF cable up the mast and install the anntenea. The RAM mic I'll probably live without since I carry a handheld VHF anyway (and use it on my current boat about 90% of the time. Eric
The boat is new. Sounds like the consensus is that this install is a do it yourself possibility. Perhaps I'll see if the dealer wants to run the VHF cable up the mast and install the anntenea. The RAM mic I'll probably live without since I carry a handheld VHF anyway (and use it on my current boat about 90% of the time. Eric
Eric, I'd encourage you to reconsider re: RAM
I'll admit this is a bit of a 'thing' with me...but IMO any boat taken on the water should have a fully functional VHF radio available at the helm...and that means in snotty weather, with the companionway buttoned up, and with zero dependence on batteries that will, of course, die when you most need them. By 'fully functional' I mean a full 25W with that masthead mounted antenna for max line of sight, and with all those memory & scanning features working. I honestly don't see how you can beat the RAM mike approach for cockpit functionality (or perhaps the Icom unit that was quickly introduced to compete with the popular RAM product line)...and the install of this component simply couldn't be easier. Jack
I'll admit this is a bit of a 'thing' with me...but IMO any boat taken on the water should have a fully functional VHF radio available at the helm...and that means in snotty weather, with the companionway buttoned up, and with zero dependence on batteries that will, of course, die when you most need them. By 'fully functional' I mean a full 25W with that masthead mounted antenna for max line of sight, and with all those memory & scanning features working. I honestly don't see how you can beat the RAM mike approach for cockpit functionality (or perhaps the Icom unit that was quickly introduced to compete with the popular RAM product line)...and the install of this component simply couldn't be easier. Jack
Who will maintain it ?
Assuming you have the time and have or are willing to acquire the needed skills, then if you installed it yourself, you know how it works and how to troubleshoot it - anytime, anywhere. Could be a big plus if you are planning any extended trips, because if its going to happen, its going to happen out there
. It also means you don't have to pay the next guy for his time to figure out what the first guy did. At least have the factory run all required cables for now and the future (search: 'Crystal Ball' on EBay). It makes little sense to have to undo and redo cable bundles. I always feel better about knowing how each piece of equipment is installed on my boat and what factors make it work or fail. On the other hand, I have seen equipment installations done by a 'handyman' (and I use the term loosely) that were just plain unsafe. Take the time to study the right way of doing things and ask experienced people lots of questions. Note: Don't look for marine electrical installation advice from the kid at Home Depot. Good luck
Assuming you have the time and have or are willing to acquire the needed skills, then if you installed it yourself, you know how it works and how to troubleshoot it - anytime, anywhere. Could be a big plus if you are planning any extended trips, because if its going to happen, its going to happen out there
. It also means you don't have to pay the next guy for his time to figure out what the first guy did. At least have the factory run all required cables for now and the future (search: 'Crystal Ball' on EBay). It makes little sense to have to undo and redo cable bundles. I always feel better about knowing how each piece of equipment is installed on my boat and what factors make it work or fail. On the other hand, I have seen equipment installations done by a 'handyman' (and I use the term loosely) that were just plain unsafe. Take the time to study the right way of doing things and ask experienced people lots of questions. Note: Don't look for marine electrical installation advice from the kid at Home Depot. Good lucknew hunter 36 owner
I had many x-tras installed by the dealer. I visited the boat twice a week to see how they did it in case things broke down in the future. My reasoning for having them do it was that if anything broke or malfunctioned then they are the party responsible to fix it. Although I am handy, I also did not have the time to do it myself.
I had many x-tras installed by the dealer. I visited the boat twice a week to see how they did it in case things broke down in the future. My reasoning for having them do it was that if anything broke or malfunctioned then they are the party responsible to fix it. Although I am handy, I also did not have the time to do it myself.
DIY if possible
Just a quick thought on your dilemma. I worked installing electronics for about 5 years and believe that If you are handy with a drill and screwdriver the job you have talked about is quite doable. If you take the time to read the manufactur recomendations (antenna locations etc) and you H2O-proof everything you'll be fine. Get the antennas up and in the clear and do not put them in the path of a radar. For interfacing the gps/radio/anything else, just connect the NMEA+ to + and - to -. the dealers and indie guys are paying (and charging for) whacked insurance rates and overhead. They have to charge $60/hr just to leave the office. For more complex installations (autopilots, ssb etc.) it is a must but youll basically be mounting things. good luck. feel free to email me patrick@mcmahonadu.com
Just a quick thought on your dilemma. I worked installing electronics for about 5 years and believe that If you are handy with a drill and screwdriver the job you have talked about is quite doable. If you take the time to read the manufactur recomendations (antenna locations etc) and you H2O-proof everything you'll be fine. Get the antennas up and in the clear and do not put them in the path of a radar. For interfacing the gps/radio/anything else, just connect the NMEA+ to + and - to -. the dealers and indie guys are paying (and charging for) whacked insurance rates and overhead. They have to charge $60/hr just to leave the office. For more complex installations (autopilots, ssb etc.) it is a must but youll basically be mounting things. good luck. feel free to email me patrick@mcmahonadu.com
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