Dead Down Wind

[Manny]

Hi All,When your sailing dead down wind, is it normal for the boat to rock side to side (port/starboard)?Thursday I was sailing ddw wing on wing and the boat was rocking somewhat, today I had just the jib open and it was doing the same thing only more pronounced. It was actually disturbing the admiral a little bit and the oscillations were definitely affecting the sail shape. I don't have a pole to hold out the jib and I'm not sure if that would have helped/hurt.Anybody else experience the same thing? Is there a way to counteract it?Thanks,Manny

 

[Bob V]

not unusual

If the wind is coming over the side the heel of the boat makes for a more comfortable ride. When going downwind the boat goes faster and gives a more comfortable ride if you do not go directly downwind. Try about 20 degrees off to either side and see if the Admirals disposition doesn't improve.

 

[r.w.landau]

Ditto Bob V

r.w.landaups, you will sail faster unless you are already at hull speed.

 

[Anchor Down]

To Answer the Question

Yes, it's quite normal.DDW, there is no constant pressure trying to heel the boat that is counterbalanced by the weight of the keel, so no equilibrium between the two is achieved. A swell easily rolls the boat, and then the weight of the keel quickly pulls it upright again. It's a very rolly point of sail.

 

[Alan]

DDW

All good advice(except William, no comment). But you are going to need a pole for sure. Heading up 20 degrees or so will cure your problem but it will require a pole to hold the headsail open. Sailing DDW is boring slow and the apparent wind drops dramatically. Heading up will 'feel' better as well as have a more comfortable ride with the added benefit of reaching your destination sooner.I would recommend a line adjustable whisker pole that can be easily adjusted dependent on the point of sail. The lighter the breeze the more you will need to head up and the longer the pole will need to be.

 

[higgs]

Wing in wing

The death roll is not uncommen in rough conditions. I love wing in wing sailing especially in heavier air - 20 knts or more.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

I love wing and wing

I love wing and wing sailing but it is the only time I see the admiral turn green. She is not normally prone to sea sickness, but the death roll of wing and wing gets to her and she has to lay down. I like the fell of everything so eerily still and what seems like total silence. Cant even hear the water against the hull. Its great in cold weather because there is little to no apparent wind. Not so good in the summer though, you cant feel the breeze. Tony B

 

[KathyL]

Glad I'm not the only one

Now I don't feel so bad... I thought it was just me that was uncomfortable with the wing on wing sailing. Tell all your admirals that I'm with them.

 

[Alan]

But....

...whatever you do DON'T lay down, that will only make things worse. Stay on deck and keep your eyes on the shore or the horizon. Best of all, head-up and keep the boat on a steady heel, make better speed and have a more comfortable ride. DDW is the pits!

 

[Ross]

I feel sorry for those that suffer Mal de mare

I can sleep through a twenty knot anchorage.

 

[Boat Babe]

DDW is HOT

I find that sailing DDW when it's over 85 degrees so very hot without any apparent wind. I find I have to change course often just to stay cool! I don't have a whisker pole... but from what I've read it really helps, right? Might invest in one.

 

[Ross]

Steph, You can make a pretty good whisker

pole with a piece of bamboo and some line. Find a canebrake with large canes and cut one that is showing some yellow color and make yourself a seasonal whisker pole. Did it last year, didn't get to use it enough and it split out in the weather so I threw it back into the canebrake where I cut it and when I expect to need one again I shall cut a new one.

 

[Manny]

The death roll...

What a great name! Thanks all, I thought maybe I had the boat trimmed wrong. I know that ddw is not the best point of sail, but the river I sail in is narrow, and being able to stay at one point of sail for an extended period of time is a rare treat. Factor in the bouys, moorings, people fishing in the middle of the channel!!?!??!?? and all the other traffic, on certain days sailing out there is like playing the old video game "Frogger". Tacking a 27 foot 7000 pound boat every four to five minutes gets tiring after a while. On Sunday I had an almost 45 minute run without tacking (or technically gybing), it was a real joy!!!!! I even managed to come close to hull speed on just the Jib!MannyP.S. Is it possible to use my expandable boat hook as a whisker pole?

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

YES you can

I used my expandable boat hook for a whisker pole on my Catalina 25 and on my catalina 30. I used the straight part of the hook and put it the clew. On the handle part, I drilled a hole and mounted a snatch hook with an eye bolt through the handle. The snatch hook clipped on my shrouds. It worked pretty good. Tony B

 

[NautiDuck]

Whisker pole

The boat hook may work but I would advise you get a real whisker pole. The pressure on the pole can be very great and you may end up with a bent pole or worse. Personally, I don't skimp on important gear and the whisker pole counts as important gear. Also, according to the WM Advisor a boat the size of yours should have a whisker pole that can expand to at least 14'. My two cents.

 

[tom]

Asymetrical spinnaker

I've only done this once but I set up my asymetrical spinnaker on one side and my genoa on the other with the main down. It worked pretty well until the wind died completely. It is a lot of work setting up the spinnaker by myself so it's not worth the effort for a short sail. The one time I did it we were sailing about 20 miles in light breezes. About 30 minutes after I did the work of setting it up the wind died and we had to motor most of the trip. As usual once we got near our destination the wind came up..bummer.

 

[Alan]

I have never understood...

...how flying an akite is a lot of work. Plug in the halyard and tack line, attach the sheets and hoist. The akite is way lighter than any other sail so halyard hoist is quick and easy. Then just sit back and trim the sheet. Am I missing something?? *o

 

[tom]

Work is Getting it Set up

Getting the thing out of the locker and up on the fordeck is work. Then getting the sheets right and then hauling it up on the halyard. It's not like cleaning bricks but it is a lot harder than unrolling the jib. Granted if I used it more it would get easier. I guess the hardest part is getting everything where nothing is tangled. It seems like something always is wrong the first couple of times I haul it up the mast..either the snuffer gets tangled or a sheet isn't right. Practice makes perfect but again I prefer not to go dead downwind. With the two headsails I can head off 20-30 degrees either side. It's definately easier than trying to run wing and wing..once it's up.

 

[Alan]

tom

Try launching from the V berth. Run your lines on deck as you normally would and drop them into the V berth hatch. Then go below and hook in everything. When you're ready you can hoist at the mast and watch it all coming out.You are correct about practice. Once you've done it a few times and made your mistakes you will learn the right way to do it and will feel much more comfortable with it. These are skills that once learned pay big dividends.

 

[Ken Palmer]

Duh, *o why didn't I think of that?

Launching from the V-berth makes perfect sense. Maybe I will fly my spinnaker more often now. Thanks Alan.