DC Electrics puzzle

[SpencerW]

Looking for thoughts and strategies.

Our sail on Sunday never left the dock. I have multiple electrical issues and being an uneducated in electrics but still fairly proficient DIY I need some help.

Current indicators.
1. Smoke coming out of my stereo - (may be H2O or Lightening?)
turned off my meter shows 0.00 Ohms at hot lead to ground. (Lead disconected)

2. Raymarine ST60 Wind instrument stuck at 20 degrees apparent needle bouncing with an alarm. (one second cycle / 2 quick beeps, pause)

3. Alternator not charging. I may have done this to myself. I may have turned the battery selector through off when engine was on. (Bad, Bad owner))

Here is why I was checking the battery switch.

Ground Fault Check
Starting battery (Brand new) .20 volts
House battery (Real old) 3.28 volts (probably dead batteries)

Voltage at panel at different battery positions - engine off
off 2.0 volts
#1 2.0 volts
Both 12.7 volts
#2 0.0 volts

Voltage at the batteries
#1 New battery 12.7 volts
#2 Dead Battery 12.1 volts

I have calls into Hunter, Raymarine, Xantrax and have spoken with West Marine. WM is who said I may have been hit with lightning. I spoke with the Marina and they weren't aware of anyone else having an issue. I was thinking that it was moisture before I started.

1989 Hunter Vision 32
Yanmar 3gm
Yanmar alernator converted to P-Type with Xantrax regulator

Any thoughts

 

[Ross]

Starting at the batteries examine each connection both the positive and the negative from the batteries to the electrical panel and from the electrical panel to each appliance. You may need to buy some replacement smoke for your stereo.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Stray Lightning

Perhaps you have not had a direct hit from a lightning bolt, but you could have experienced some stray lighting that has more subtle adverse effects to your boat's electrical system. You probably should contact a boat yard that has a confident marine electrician on staff that can come in and trouble shoot your problems. Since it appears to be a systemic problem, I would expect it would be from a surge of some sort. Sometimes the compass will lose its polarity and light bulbs in places like the cabin lights will blow and often you will see traces of black soot at various electrical connections. I wouldn't call the manufacture for help. If it is a water problem and all the components that you mention are victims, you must have one wet boat inside. I would look for a surge problem.

 

[Bill Roosa]

corrosion on a connection

You can't get 12 volts at the battery and 2 volts at the panel due to lightning. It is a corrosion issue. Try the following to confirm, turn off everything and test between the 12 volt supply at the panel and the ground terminal of the battery. Should be 0 volts with 3-way "off" and battery volts in any other setting.
If there is some device running the voltage drop at the panel feed will be measurable if there is corrosion between the point where you test and the battery + terminal. Could be the 3-way switch connections or a cable.

Until you get proper volts to the panel don't worry about your instruments, they don't work so well at 2 volts.

Do you have a reason to believe you where struck by lightning?

As for the stereo, you must never let the magic blue smoke out of electrinical devices. They don't work without the magic blue smoke. you will need a new one as I've never seen anybody get all the MBS back into the case. They don't sell it a WM either. ;-)

 

[SpencerW]

I just came back from the boat again.

The stereo is out.

The alternator is working correctly, but only charging the #1 battery. Corrosion may be the secret to start. I will check my battery cables.

I find it interesting that I have the variety of voltages at the board.

Voltage at panel at different battery positions - engine off
off 2.0 volts
#1 2.0 volts
Both 12.7 volts
#2 0.0 volts

Why the 12.7 at both?

The previous owner did extend the battery cables 4 feet or so by adding lengths of 4 guage and the connector studs are very low in the boat. I have to remove the current battery shelf to get into the area. Not convienient. I will probably replace the cable with 2 guage at least with direct runs.

 

[RAD]

Two solutions, one is get a qualified marine electrician and two, replace the stereo after electrician fixes all

 

[Deadline2]

Magic Blue Smoke

Who knew!
The things you learn from boating.

 

[Richard19068]

smoke

Some folks have, apparently, figured out how to reinstall the smoke. Now if they could just come up with something for the Japanese models.


http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm

 

[SpencerW]

Smoke on the water... Deep Purple was always one of my favorites.

What I like most about these forums is the learning that is available as we watch one of our own struggle to understand.

So, I have taken your advice and come back a little more confused. Unfortunately I ran out of time after work and will do some more testing tomorrow. But here is what I found so far.

Wire test suggested by Bill Roosa - Thanks Bill

Battery #1,

ground removed - seperate ground runner wire used
Battery switch position - volts at the board
off 0.00 volts
#1 12.28
Both 12.69 (actually battery volts)
#2 .06 volts

Volts at the battery Switch

Switch Position Off #1 Both #2
#1 post 12.69 12.69 12.69 12.69
#2 Post .06* .1* 12.69 12.29*
Common Post .06* .1* 12.69 12.69

Battery #2,

ground removed - seperate ground runner wire used
Battery switch position - volts at the board
off 12.09 volts
#1 12.09
Both 12.09 (actually battery volts
#2 12.09 volts
Battery #2 is hard wired directly to the board I guess to provide power to the Bilge pump. (a good thing)

Volts at the battery Switch

Switch Position Off #1 Both #2
#1 post 5.02** 5.36* 12.09 24.25
#2 Post 12.09 12.09 12.09 12.09
Common Post 1.36** 0.00 12.09 12.09

Yes that is a 24.25 volt reading at post #1 in the #2 switch position.

One other thing that I discovered is that when I installed the new starter battery I did not reconnect the Heart Battery monitor ground cable correctly. The monitor keeps a track on the house #2 battery. Therefore the only ground for the house battery was through the shunt. Currently the batteries are not installed. I will reinstall and retest with a proper ground.

Thanks for your thoughts on all of this. And no more smoke on the water, unless it's a good cigar.

 

[Ron20324]

at 24. volts, it seems your batteries are wired in series at some unknown point.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Why not simplify your detective work?

Instead of measuring voltages and all that stuff, trace the wires and make a wiring diagram and you'll quickly find out just how snafu'ed it really is and will have a clear record to be able to start making the corrections that are necessary.

 

[SpencerW]

Thank you all for your input. I spent a few hours this afternoon tracing and testing everything to the battery switch.

The only significant issue is the Heart link 10 battery monitor. Once I isolated the shunt everything elase came into normal values. I have not spoken with xantrex yet, but my current feeling is that by having the ground cable from the shunt to battery #1 - post the only ground was through the shunt and it's sensor wires. Therefore the really strange readings. It also seems that this configuration, when the battery switch was at position 1 set the batteries in series, therefore the 24.5 volts. My St60 wind is fried and on it's way to Raymarine. I am not sure yet about my ancient Stowe Depth instrument, but that's another story.

I really like Richard19068's link above. Very, very funny. It reminds me af a bery sexy red Fiat I bought for my ex wife a long time ago.

 

[SpencerW]

Edit - By not having the #2 ground wire connected to #1

 

[Ron20324]

Still, we hope you made a wiring diagram of everything.

 

[SpencerW]

I do have a wiring diagram that I did when I first purchased the boat. Has not been much help this episode and I did not refer to it when replacing the starting battery (doh).

I spoke with xantrax and they did not see any way that what I observed could have been caused by the arrangement I described.

I now have normal and expected values and I am going to try to recreate the abnormal readings. (I won't turn anything else on.) I am aware that one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different resuts... But in this situation, it seems that I am getting different results while doing the same thing over and over. There has got to be a reason for these strange values.

I have a surveyor coming on board on July 2. It will be interesting to hear his opinion.