dare I say it......outhaul?

Joe · Sep 4, 2009

Alan......it's always the guys who don't pay alot of attention to sail trim that squawk the loudest when the subject is brought up.

Fellas... whether you constantly make adjustments... or just set it, and forget it.. is irrelevant to a sail trim question. Understanding its purpose and how it affects boat performance is the issue. Why do you need to preface your comments with: "I'm a cruiser,not a racer" or "I sail to relax, not compete."

The outhaul could have been a great discussion... related mainsail ideas on loose foot, shelf foot, full battens, flattening reefs and so on could have enlightened alot of folks... except to the guys that don't care... who, for some reason, feel compelled to voice their justifications for not caring. AS IF WE CARED WHAT THEY THOUGHT!

Dave D · Sep 5, 2009

Seems to me to be a lot of "us vs. them" on both sides. Can't say I'm innocent, but it sure would be nice if we could simply allow each other to share our knowledge and experience without getting out knickers in a twist over being right or wrong.

"AS IF WE CARED WHAT THEY THOUGHT"? nice.

Stu Jackson · Sep 5, 2009

Comaraderie or Bust!

Yes, the outhaul issue/question did have some interesting ideas. I think, however, if you go back and re-read them, you'll find that most folks who said they rarely used theirs indicated that they understood it was an important and useful tool. Remember the original question, sometimes lost in the "fog of war": Hermit needed to know if he had to worry about it as a high or first priority for his maiden sail, and he doesn't yet have a jib. I thought there was actually quite a bit of consensus as to the importance of the outhaul once other sail trim devices were eventually installed.

When I sail with folks who have working outhauls, I love watching "them old fussbudgets" trim away, because I learn an awful lot. I must also admit to not having come in behind many folks in races who have a lot more trimming devices than I do (in a strict C34 one-design class).

Guess it's all in your point of view.

Rick · Sep 5, 2009

Re: Comaraderie or Bust!

Hey Stu et all,
I have a rigid vang, and a slotted foot (bolt rope to boom) rigged main with full horizontal battens. How much affect does outhaul adjustment really have on my draft position/depth?

I CARE! nice

Cheers

ChuckThomas · Sep 5, 2009

During the Gulfport to Pensacola race this past summer, I helped trim on a Tartan 33 setup for spin. By playing the outhaul and cunningham, we were actually able to keep up with the class ahead of us for a long time. Those and other small adjustments we contribute to two plus knots of speed out of seven. We came in third but our competition was fierce. 100 miles and 20 hours had less than an hour difference for the first four places. It was cool to see how much we could squeeze out by making minuscule adjustments. After reading Mr. Don's sailtrim guide I started playing with controls I did not even realize I had. They really do make a difference. I also learned that very small adjustments sometimes could add a lot of speed when put together. Don't forget leech line, and traveler, and cunningham. One thing I have learned that has helped is to make very small adjustments after you get it close. One of the mistakes that I used to make was to make a two inch adjustment and not see any difference. If I had made only an inch I would have seen a marked improvement. I went too far by going two inches. The only time I really put this much attention is when racing or needing to get somewhere quickly.

That is one side of the coin. The other is I just get it close and set it and forget it. If the boat is moving I am happy. Here on the lake we have the luxury of being able to set a beam reach out for a few hours then beam reach back. I can spend all day long on just two tacks. That kind of sailing is very relaxing and great when you want a lazy day.

Don Guillette · Sep 5, 2009

Alan: I rarely go to the “ask all sailors” section because 99% of the posts involve maintenance issues but I just finished reading the various opinions sailors have on the outhaul.

It doesn’t matter what sail trim control you bring up (traveler, fairlead etc) you’d get the same response from a specific segment of the sailing public and it is a big segment. It used to bug me because I felt a sailor could get so much more fun out of his boat if he just spent a little bit of time learning how to sail it. Same goes for golf, tennis, hitting a baseball and so on. Some people are content to never hit a golf ball to the same place twice and call it golfing. Same goes for sailing. Many are content to raise the main and roll out the jib (some even get that backwards) and call it sailing. Whatever floats your boat.

I’ve just given up on it but I think I know part of the reason why some sailors feel as they do –“a man doesn’t know what he doesn’t know” and most guys are too proud to admit it and they just fall back to not adjusting anything. Same with golf - they tell you they are just out to have fun. What fun is it shooting 75 for 9 holes and losing 5 balls in the process!! It only takes a few minutes in talking with some sailors to know they don’t know. That goes for anything. If I was trying to BS to an electrician he’d know immediately I had no idea what I was talking about.

Personally, I think a lack of basic sail trim knowledge is dangerous. Suppose you need to power up to get through chop? You then might wish you knew how to adjust your outhaul or you need to kill the power because your overpowered and unfortunately you have no idea what controls to use.

Some folks have told me I spend all my time tweeking sail trim controls and all they want to do is sail around, socialize and have a good time. Actually, if you know what your doing you can keep one eye on the folks on board and the other eye on the sails – use both eyes if she is an attractive lady and forget the sails!! Fooling around with the sails is how I get my rocks off so I’m at the other end of the spectrum from the guy who wants to do nothing with his sails. He thinks he’s right and I think he’s missing out on the pleasure he could get when your boat gives you 100%.

At the end of this month I’m giving a talk at the Tucson Sailing Club on sail trim. Last month I went to their meeting to check them out to see how receptive they would be. All members were very happy with the idea and eager to learn – except one guy. He told me he was just a cruiser. I was going to ask him what that had to do with it but since I wanted to give the talk I just thought it to myself.

Joe · Sep 5, 2009

Sorry Dave...

Dave D said:
Seems to me to be a lot of "us vs. them" on both sides. Can't say I'm innocent, but it sure would be nice if we could simply allow each other to share our knowledge and experience without getting out knickers in a twist over being right or wrong.

"AS IF WE CARED WHAT THEY THOUGHT"? nice.

Yeah, that wasn't very nice...sorry... maybe I should have toned my rant down a bit. But I hope you got the gist of my point without focusing too much on the delivery. These "I'm a cruiser, not a racer" comments about sail trim finally got to me. I wish you would have included the entire paragraph when you quoted me, though. It might not have sounded so harsh...

Stu Jackson · Sep 5, 2009

We can always go back and read your entire post, but

only having part of it quoted does make a difference, like: taking things out of context.

As I said, most meant well, but it did get disturbing when the impression left by some was it NEVER matters, which is plain wrong.

Your boat, your choice.

Speaking of "your", after six years I still can't get Don to spell "you're" right/correctly!!!

I think he's apostrophe-challenged. Talk about fingernails on a blackboard...

Don Guillette · Sep 7, 2009

Alan/Stu: I'm now keeping a list of the words I can't seem to get right. Wish they had spell check here but I don't mind being wrong with the spelling as long as I'm right on the sail trim and you old time guys know what I'm trying to say.

I know what the problem is. I'm just a common seaman who grew up with a Catholic education in the 40's. Those nuns were brutal!! I do know "why and how God created me" but I was not so good with math, spelling, verbs and nouns. You guys just have to bear, bare or whatever it is with me!!

Stu Jackson · Sep 7, 2009

I am horribly surprised that the nuns didn't assure that your rights weren't trampled upon, and allowed you freedom of speech to assure that you're properly respected wherever you go, even though you were sketching Sail Trim articles when they were doing Bible Classes. Happy you graduated!

Anchor Down · Sep 7, 2009

Stu, I'm afraid you're confusing parochial with public school… lol.

Ron McCoy · Sep 15, 2009

I'm curious Don. Where do the Tucson Sailing Club members sail? My last visit to Arizona gave me the impression it's all desert and no water.

Don Guillette · Sep 16, 2009

The Tucson Sailing Club are a pretty avid bunch of sailors who sail mostly on the Gulf Of Mexico which is about 4 hours drive from Tucson. The trailer sailors also go to the Gulf and a lot of them use the the large lakes in the Phoenix area. Before i moved here I used to think Tucson was on the desert floor but actually it is about 2000'. Where we live, which is about 25 miles north of Tucson, it is at 3500'. We get snow, which doesn't last long, and very cold temps. I have 2 uniforms of the day (or season) - from Dec to the end of Feb it is jeans. The rest of the time it is shorts!!

Stu Jackson · Sep 16, 2009

iespell checker

Alan said:
Go to a website www.iespell.com and download this free spell checker. It will put an icon on your menu bar. When you finish any text you type, just click this icon and it will spell check all your text. Will fix years of spelling stuff they tried teaching you and make you look like a GENIUS!!

Good idea, Alan, I did that years ago.

Still won't help Don with his apostrophe issue though, will it?:naughty:

Maine Sail · Sep 16, 2009

Alan said:
Go to a website www.iespell.com and download this free spell checker. It will put an icon on your menu bar. When you finish any text you type, just click this icon and it will spell check all your text. Will fix years of spelling stuff they tried teaching you and make you look like a GENIUS!!

Better yet download the Mozilla Firefox web browser and get rid of that horrendous Internet Exploder (IE) web browser.

Mozilla is safer, less hackers try to attack it than IE, and offers literally thousands of plug-ins and is FAR more customizable. I have been using it now as my sole browser for over seven years and since using it have not had one single virus. That even included a two year stint with NO anti-virus software.

It also has a BUILT IN spell checker that underlines any misspelled word, in red, AS YOU TYPE! I honestly can't believe anyone still uses IE..

Mozilla Firefox rocks!

Mozilla Firefox Download (LINK)

Stu Jackson · Sep 16, 2009

Re: dare I say it......Firefox & Browser Wars

Yes, Firefox is way better, and the tabs were ahead of their time. How'd we ever live without tabs?