During the winter haul out, my boat incurred some damage to the keel and potentially to the hull - the interior cabin sole has been damaged by upward pressure from the trailer pads. The hull is undergoing tests now. First time I used the local hauler who has a good reputation, and good references. We pulled in the dark in less than ideal conditions. BUT the damage to the cabin sole and potential to the hull is directly associated with the upward hydraulic force of the pad on the hull when the wing on the keel was trapped in the trailer. Has anyone suffered a costly problem during the winter haul out, and if yes have they held the haulage contractor liable, or carried the loss on their own insurance??
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Start with Your Insurance
Start by putting your insurance carrier on notice that an incident has occured. If they are a good carrier, they will advise you what to do next, and may even assist you in making the claim with the hauler's carrier. If the claim is significant, your carrier should cheerfully (right!) pay for the repairs and go after the hauler for subrogation. Some would say to avoid your carrier in order to avoid an increase in premiums due to an "incident" having occured. It is always best to be totally up front with your carrier because failure to do so could compromise your claim. If you don't have a good experience with them, you probably should look for another insurer. Be wary of statutes of limitations to file suits. If in doubt, or if you feel you are being jerked around, don't be shy about soliciting the help of an attorney!
Start by putting your insurance carrier on notice that an incident has occured. If they are a good carrier, they will advise you what to do next, and may even assist you in making the claim with the hauler's carrier. If the claim is significant, your carrier should cheerfully (right!) pay for the repairs and go after the hauler for subrogation. Some would say to avoid your carrier in order to avoid an increase in premiums due to an "incident" having occured. It is always best to be totally up front with your carrier because failure to do so could compromise your claim. If you don't have a good experience with them, you probably should look for another insurer. Be wary of statutes of limitations to file suits. If in doubt, or if you feel you are being jerked around, don't be shy about soliciting the help of an attorney!
Subrogation?
Andrew, Generally you have two options: 1) Go directly to the carrier who handles the haulers insurance. The insurance company will make the decision if their insured was negligent and if so should pay the claim assuming he has general liability insurance. This assumes he will give you their name (you can always look up their phone number). If you go this route and they assume responsibility one advantage is you don't pay a deductible. They will assume 100% of the loss. If you chose this route do not deal with the business owner or his insurance agent. Deal directly with the insurance company. 2) A second option is to go directly to your own company. Besides paying the claim (less your deductible) they will also determine whether or not in their opinion the hauler was negligent. If they believe he was then they have the option of going thru "subrogation". This is a common practice where one insurance company pays a claim on their insureds behalf but then presents their findings of negligence to the other partys insurance company with a request for full reimbursement including your deductible. As I said it's a common practice between insurance companies though there's no guarantee the other company will agree with your company. Then there's always arbitrarion if your company feels strongly enough about the case. I would go the first route if you can. This keeps your own company out of it and there is no reference to a claim in your file, at fault or not. Whatever you do it is usually not in your best intrest to allow the hauler to pay direct. The reason is that if they get an estimate from you and agree to that figure, but then the "estimate" goes higher as the work progresses due to unseen problems, they could balk at the additional costs. Once that happens you could be S.O.L. Always best IMO to deal directly with an insurance company. Good Luck!
Andrew, Generally you have two options: 1) Go directly to the carrier who handles the haulers insurance. The insurance company will make the decision if their insured was negligent and if so should pay the claim assuming he has general liability insurance. This assumes he will give you their name (you can always look up their phone number). If you go this route and they assume responsibility one advantage is you don't pay a deductible. They will assume 100% of the loss. If you chose this route do not deal with the business owner or his insurance agent. Deal directly with the insurance company. 2) A second option is to go directly to your own company. Besides paying the claim (less your deductible) they will also determine whether or not in their opinion the hauler was negligent. If they believe he was then they have the option of going thru "subrogation". This is a common practice where one insurance company pays a claim on their insureds behalf but then presents their findings of negligence to the other partys insurance company with a request for full reimbursement including your deductible. As I said it's a common practice between insurance companies though there's no guarantee the other company will agree with your company. Then there's always arbitrarion if your company feels strongly enough about the case. I would go the first route if you can. This keeps your own company out of it and there is no reference to a claim in your file, at fault or not. Whatever you do it is usually not in your best intrest to allow the hauler to pay direct. The reason is that if they get an estimate from you and agree to that figure, but then the "estimate" goes higher as the work progresses due to unseen problems, they could balk at the additional costs. Once that happens you could be S.O.L. Always best IMO to deal directly with an insurance company. Good Luck!
good advice?
what both Steve and Joe said is true. however, I have been a property and casualty insurance agent for 20 yrs and here my take on it. first I would deal directly with the owner. during the first conversation with him you should be able to determine if he is willing to accept respondibility or not. if he is willing, agree on a surveyor and get him to determine the damage. agree only to have the boat "fixed" according to the surveyor reccommendations not a fixed amount, sign off only after you are happy everything is as it should be. if the business owners wiggles and you dont feel comfortable with talking with him and he doesnt accept respondibility, call you agent and turn it over to him and your insurance company. that is what you pay your premium $$$s for. your deductiable will be refunded when your insurance company recovers thru the business owners general liability as mentioned before thru subrogation. couple things to check or watch out for, some yards ask you to sign a hold harmless agreement that is sometimes hidden in the work order before they touch your boat. check for this. also remember that in order to recover from his liability carrier he has to be "legally liable" for the damage. if he or his carrier claims they or not liable then only a judge decides who is legally liable when the suit is brought. this is why I suggest work it out with the owner and if you cant turn it over to your agent and let your carrier handle it!
what both Steve and Joe said is true. however, I have been a property and casualty insurance agent for 20 yrs and here my take on it. first I would deal directly with the owner. during the first conversation with him you should be able to determine if he is willing to accept respondibility or not. if he is willing, agree on a surveyor and get him to determine the damage. agree only to have the boat "fixed" according to the surveyor reccommendations not a fixed amount, sign off only after you are happy everything is as it should be. if the business owners wiggles and you dont feel comfortable with talking with him and he doesnt accept respondibility, call you agent and turn it over to him and your insurance company. that is what you pay your premium $$$s for. your deductiable will be refunded when your insurance company recovers thru the business owners general liability as mentioned before thru subrogation. couple things to check or watch out for, some yards ask you to sign a hold harmless agreement that is sometimes hidden in the work order before they touch your boat. check for this. also remember that in order to recover from his liability carrier he has to be "legally liable" for the damage. if he or his carrier claims they or not liable then only a judge decides who is legally liable when the suit is brought. this is why I suggest work it out with the owner and if you cant turn it over to your agent and let your carrier handle it!
Better Advice - but too late 
You are the fourth person this year that I have heard has had problems with the Hunter fitting on the hauling trailer. It seems that many trailers don't have the horizontal clearance for the winged keel to fit on the trailer. The trailer is designed so that it typically hauls fin-keelded boats. My friend refused to be hauled when he found out that the trailer only had 32" of open space (side-to-side). He required at least 36" for the bulb wing. It was a tough way to learn, but all boat owners should inquire with the hauler about the available width-clearance for a keelboat. Good Luck, I hope things work out for you. *box
You are the fourth person this year that I have heard has had problems with the Hunter fitting on the hauling trailer. It seems that many trailers don't have the horizontal clearance for the winged keel to fit on the trailer. The trailer is designed so that it typically hauls fin-keelded boats. My friend refused to be hauled when he found out that the trailer only had 32" of open space (side-to-side). He required at least 36" for the bulb wing. It was a tough way to learn, but all boat owners should inquire with the hauler about the available width-clearance for a keelboat. Good Luck, I hope things work out for you. *box
Gentlemen - thank you
Gentlemen, thanks for your time and expertise. I have had a surveyor make a quick assessment, and there some damage that needs repair. I will be approaching the hauler/storage yard tomorrow - they have just sent me the bill!!! If not satisfied, then I'll use my agent. Great advice, thanks again.
Gentlemen, thanks for your time and expertise. I have had a surveyor make a quick assessment, and there some damage that needs repair. I will be approaching the hauler/storage yard tomorrow - they have just sent me the bill!!! If not satisfied, then I'll use my agent. Great advice, thanks again.
Droped boat ooops
My yard droped my boat two years ago and they where sorry and said they wood make all repears ASAP then after a few weeks they decided to fix my boat in the spring when spring came they gave me a rush job and droped me in the water with out me seeing the work. When the water became warm enought to swim in I went under the boat to take a look and they did a poor repear and when the boat came out In the fall I had a catalina smile the lenth of the keel that was not there the year before.My floor tabing was also loose from the hull and made aloude crunching noise when I stood on it and walkedaround inside Im in a real mess so I just stared fixing things my self since they droped my boat my dock slip was sold and I was told that there was no other dock space available for me. So again nice guys finish last.But next time I would get a survay then let my Insurance talk to there Insurance and that way I would be covered . John Olson Good luck
My yard droped my boat two years ago and they where sorry and said they wood make all repears ASAP then after a few weeks they decided to fix my boat in the spring when spring came they gave me a rush job and droped me in the water with out me seeing the work. When the water became warm enought to swim in I went under the boat to take a look and they did a poor repear and when the boat came out In the fall I had a catalina smile the lenth of the keel that was not there the year before.My floor tabing was also loose from the hull and made aloude crunching noise when I stood on it and walkedaround inside Im in a real mess so I just stared fixing things my self since they droped my boat my dock slip was sold and I was told that there was no other dock space available for me. So again nice guys finish last.But next time I would get a survay then let my Insurance talk to there Insurance and that way I would be covered . John Olson Good luck
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