I'm looking at a Columbia 30 which has a normal draft of 5'9". It was cut down to 4'9". How much will this ft. change the sailing performance of this boat or should I just walk away from this boat? Thank You Henry
cutting of the keel
- Thread starter henry9372
- Start date
- Status
Was it simply cut...
...or was it cut and then modified to have a bulb or somethign like that? or Cut and modified with additional / different ballast / material?
...or was it cut and then modified to have a bulb or somethign like that? or Cut and modified with additional / different ballast / material?
Cutting the keel
If you change the underwater foil (keel) it WILL change the interaction between the keel and the sails. Sailboats are designed so that the boat will just "turn into the wind" (weather helm) when the sails are properly set. By changing the keel, and not the sails also, the boat will no doubt now have less "going to wind" ability and more lee way and a massive case of weather helm. All fine if you don't do any beating or close reaching! Bill Roosa
If you change the underwater foil (keel) it WILL change the interaction between the keel and the sails. Sailboats are designed so that the boat will just "turn into the wind" (weather helm) when the sails are properly set. By changing the keel, and not the sails also, the boat will no doubt now have less "going to wind" ability and more lee way and a massive case of weather helm. All fine if you don't do any beating or close reaching! Bill Roosa
Excessive Helm?
I don't think that you will experience less weather helm with the shorter keel. The center of effort of the hull and the center of effort provided by the sail plan are generally still the same. You may likely see a little excessive leeway while sailing to windward because the keel provides less lateral resistance. It would be interesting to understand why the keel was modified.
I don't think that you will experience less weather helm with the shorter keel. The center of effort of the hull and the center of effort provided by the sail plan are generally still the same. You may likely see a little excessive leeway while sailing to windward because the keel provides less lateral resistance. It would be interesting to understand why the keel was modified.
I may know the boat.
Or at least one like it. The one I know was in florida. The owner liked it when it was shortend for florida the draft was a pain it the butt. as for sailing the boat was really very stiff before and still quite acceptable after. We all questioned it when he did it but he felt the boat was no speedster anyway and he did not really notice too much change in performance. Either to lack of concern or whatever but he cruised the boat around florida and it worked out fine. If this is the same boat they cut it off with a rented chain saw. Keep in mind the old columbia 30 was a heavy stiff boat to start with. and in the light florida winds the change was not a big deal. If your in San Francisco and the average winds are in the 25 knot range i may be different. This was a nice boat to sail and cruise on.
Or at least one like it. The one I know was in florida. The owner liked it when it was shortend for florida the draft was a pain it the butt. as for sailing the boat was really very stiff before and still quite acceptable after. We all questioned it when he did it but he felt the boat was no speedster anyway and he did not really notice too much change in performance. Either to lack of concern or whatever but he cruised the boat around florida and it worked out fine. If this is the same boat they cut it off with a rented chain saw. Keep in mind the old columbia 30 was a heavy stiff boat to start with. and in the light florida winds the change was not a big deal. If your in San Francisco and the average winds are in the 25 knot range i may be different. This was a nice boat to sail and cruise on.
Another
The seller has seriously tampered with the basic design of the boat in total ignorance of the possible impact on its performance and sailing characteristics. (If the seller had advice from the designer, ask to see it in writing.) Even if you could somehow understand (from the boat's designer or builder) the consequences of the shortened keel, and live with them yourself, anybody who understands the issues would "walk away" when you try to sell the boat. So its resale value is permanently reduced, IMHO. David Lady Lillie
The seller has seriously tampered with the basic design of the boat in total ignorance of the possible impact on its performance and sailing characteristics. (If the seller had advice from the designer, ask to see it in writing.) Even if you could somehow understand (from the boat's designer or builder) the consequences of the shortened keel, and live with them yourself, anybody who understands the issues would "walk away" when you try to sell the boat. So its resale value is permanently reduced, IMHO. David Lady Lillie
It all comes down to ... how well does
it appear to sail now... and how much weight was cut off ... it really may only mean you have lost a couple of degrees up wind ... and just may have to reef a bit earlier. And of course someone will have to reconfigure your PHRF . Half the boat designs out there are compromise city anyway. Vic "Seven"
it appear to sail now... and how much weight was cut off ... it really may only mean you have lost a couple of degrees up wind ... and just may have to reef a bit earlier. And of course someone will have to reconfigure your PHRF . Half the boat designs out there are compromise city anyway. Vic "Seven"
Properly done and engineered.
Henry: If it is properly done AND engineered it may be fine. Normally when you cut off a portion of the keel you need to replace the ballast with a counter weight (like bulbs or a wing). Now on the other hand if you are paying $1500 for the boat, you can afford to spend another 2000 for some ballast, you will be fine. Contact Mars Metals and get an exact quote. You may be surprised on what is costs to replace 300-400 lbs of keel. If you like the boat and are willing to pay the definite, it may be worth a look.
Henry: If it is properly done AND engineered it may be fine. Normally when you cut off a portion of the keel you need to replace the ballast with a counter weight (like bulbs or a wing). Now on the other hand if you are paying $1500 for the boat, you can afford to spend another 2000 for some ballast, you will be fine. Contact Mars Metals and get an exact quote. You may be surprised on what is costs to replace 300-400 lbs of keel. If you like the boat and are willing to pay the definite, it may be worth a look.
Like Steve D said, it all depends on who did it
Did a certified marine architect go over the design and changes? Was the change impelemented by a qualified. Does the seller have immediate and verifiable answers to these questions? If so I might investigate further by putting it through some extensive sea trials to see how she feels under different conditions. Cutting the keel doesn't automatically discount a boat, but I would be very, very wary and have to really really love the boat for other reasons. Here are a few links from Mars Metals on stories on lowering ones keels. http://www.marsmetal.com/html/sail_article.htm http://www.marsmetal.com/html/volume7b.htm
Did a certified marine architect go over the design and changes? Was the change impelemented by a qualified. Does the seller have immediate and verifiable answers to these questions? If so I might investigate further by putting it through some extensive sea trials to see how she feels under different conditions. Cutting the keel doesn't automatically discount a boat, but I would be very, very wary and have to really really love the boat for other reasons. Here are a few links from Mars Metals on stories on lowering ones keels. http://www.marsmetal.com/html/sail_article.htm http://www.marsmetal.com/html/volume7b.htm
- Status