curious thing about buying a used boat...

[centerline]

you just never know how bad the owner/previous owner is/was lying to you... or why they're even lying....

the guy I bought our boat from recently, had 5 sails in bags, in addition to what was on the boat... he told me one was a 100% hank on jib, one a 155 genoa, one was supposed to be another main, but kind of ragged, also an asymetrical spinnaker and a racing jib...

i finally got aroung to stripping the sails from the boat and took them all in to the sailmaker to see what we could salvage from the pile....

the main that is on the boat is a full batten main in decent condition, and is stamped with a racing certification number at the headboard... but as i knew when I bought the boat, the fool who installed the track slides used STEEL grommets... so they need to be changed...

the 135 furling jib needs the UV cover restitched, otherwise in excellent shape.

so then we opened up the unknown bags of stuff....

we did find a spinaker, but it is a symetrical... in like new condition but with a patch of mildew at one clew....

the next one was a brand new main... possibly never installed on the boat.... no slides or grommets. and although it is identical to the one that the boat was rigged with, it does NOT have full batten pockets and has a bit less roach. it also has two reef points. I am installing grommets and track slides...

the next bag was a like new 135 furling headsail... it looks like the original that came with the boat as the UV sewn on it is the same color as the boat... no signs of wear, usage or abuse. stitching is still all good on the UV... no work needs done....

the next 2 bags has a #1 and a #2 kevlar racing jib in them, which I have absolutely no use for. one is older than the other.... you will soon see them listed in the gear ads

the PO was a talker and I caught him in a few less than truthful comments that made no difference in all the world, other than he lied when he talked about it...

as for the sails, im sure he had no idea what was in the bags, but was afraid they were rags, so instead of saying he didnt know or that they were rags, he told me whatever came to mind hoping i would take his word for it and wouldnt open them up to see rags... but by not knowing I feel the deal is only sweeter for me....
he owned the boat for 6 years and apparently never looked in the bags.

also, what i did find out from his slip neighbors is that he was disgusted with the boat because it developed a severe engine oil leak and the engine needed to be removed to be repaired, and hes not able to do it... so he sold it cheap... when i bought it I though it was a side cover gasket leaking.
while trying to tighten the side cover bolts, I found the problem to be a broken plastic cap on the mechanical tach connection at the rear of the motor.... replaced it with a metal one and its dry as can be...

lots of little things like this were neglected but nothing major, which is good for me. sometimes you just never know.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I think the problem with most used boats is that the PO's treat them like cars and it just don't work that way.

Due to the harsh environment a boat labours under, ongoing maintenance is a must or someone suffers the consequences.

 

[rgranger]

Ah the mystique of a used boat...

 

[trainmanjess]

hello all

I too recently bought a used sailboat.. I bought a 1971 Morgan 35'.. she is a beauty.. I could not pass up on the deal to buy her... the previous owner it seams didn't sail her... he and his wife lived on the boat with their young son (infant).. they bought it as a live aboard, and motored it to the slip and it stayed there.. he got a new job and was transferred out west and couldn't afford to take the boat... he had it for sale for several months, and no takers... he kept lowering the price.. I offered a low ball offer figuring we could dicker back and forth for a reasonable price for both of us... he took my low ball offer...

in our talking, he said the man was blown out, the hank on jibs were old, the motor was new and needed instruments, all the halyards needed replaced, there were no leaks, and the bottom had been painted in '13....

in realty when I met with his friend and talked, this friend knew the boat condition and told me everything... the main sail is missing, the jibs were like new and furler set up, there is a good furler on the bow, the motor was litely used but in great condition, the motor does need the instrument panel, the halyards are good, the main sheets need to be replaced, there is one port lite that needs resealed, and the bottom needs cleaned.. otherwise I got a wonderful deal on the boat...

sincerely
Jess

 

[sd1953]

Centerline, it almost sounds like the PO was not lying, but just didn't know enough about boats to enjoy it. He had probably been told what was in the bags but never looked. He clearly wasn't a mechanic, the oil leak was too easily fixed. Sounds like he was little overwhelmed by the boat and all the new systems he needed to learn. Sailors are a special bunch. They love being on the water and are willing to learn about the boat, how she handles, what she is made of, how the systems work. The average sailor is half diesel mechanic, half fiberglass repairman, half carpenter, half electrician (AC systems), half electrician (DC systems), half plumber, half... okay, half crazy. And don't even get me started on the head...
Oh, yeah, and he sweeps out the joint. And scrubs the decks...
Having a new (to me) boat that I am learning all about, I take my hat off to sailors. There is a wealth of knowledge in most cockpits that is nothing short of amazing.

 

[oldragbaggers]

Does he have any more boats for sale???

 

[centerline]

Centerline, it almost sounds like the PO was not lying, but just didn't know enough about boats to enjoy it. He had probably been told what was in the bags but never looked. He clearly wasn't a mechanic, the oil leak was too easily fixed. Sounds like he was little overwhelmed by the boat and all the new systems he needed to learn. Sailors are a special bunch. They love being on the water and are willing to learn about the boat, how she handles, what she is made of, how the systems work. The average sailor is half diesel mechanic, half fiberglass repairman, half carpenter, half electrician (AC systems), half electrician (DC systems), half plumber, half... okay, half crazy. And don't even get me started on the head...
Oh, yeah, and he sweeps out the joint. And scrubs the decks...
Having a new (to me) boat that I am learning all about, I take my hat off to sailors. There is a wealth of knowledge in most cockpits that is nothing short of amazing.

well.... by him not looking in the sail bags, or the oil leak, or the tubs of new gear and hardware that was included with the boat, he undersold it. I knew I was getting a decent deal or I would never have bought it. but then all the extras i find after the purchase just sweeting the deal... im definitely not complaining, as it could have easily gone the other way instead... but i made my decision to purchase the boat at that price based on the condition the hull and interior was in.... it alone was worth the price i paid.
the boat has been well set up for offshore racing (transpac and pacific cup), he told me about all the stuff he added to make it that way, and he did all the welding, manufacturing and installs himself, but forespar had their own guy do the new mast, boom and rigging refit....
I found photos from past sales in all the paperwork that came with it... it shows the stuff was added during a refit in '92... when someone else owned the boat..
some of the items were purchased a year or more before the actual refit took place

there is too much he said that has been PROVEN otherwise.... but its to my benefit in the end. he just didnt know what he had.
I am the 5th owner of it... all purchases, sales invoices and receipts have been kept in the book by the previous owners, so it is chronicled pretty well.... EXCEPT whatever the PO did. OR, what i think, that lack of information in the book since he bought it is indicative of what he actually did during his ownership of it... at the first sign of what he thought was a "major problem" , he sold it quick... so he wouldnt have to file a parts or repair receipt in the book

and you have a pretty good grasp of what a real sailors life is like....it only gets worse as you go along. and thats either good or bad depending on who's point of view...

 

[justsomeguy]

you just never know how bad the owner/previous owner is/was lying to you... or why they're even lying....



also, what i did find out from his slip neighbors is that he was disgusted with the boat because it developed a severe engine oil leak and the engine needed to be removed to be repaired, and hes not able to do it... so he sold it cheap... when i bought it I though it was a side cover gasket leaking.
while trying to tighten the side cover bolts, I found the problem to be a broken plastic cap on the mechanical tach connection at the rear of the motor.... replaced it with a metal one and its dry as can be...

Could be the PO was lied to by a mechanic, also. A chain of events.

Congratulations.

 

[Ward H]

I was expecting the typical ending where the deal sours but was glad that yours was sweetened.

 

[Ron20324]

Reminds me of when Boaters World had their clearance sale. There was a tub that anchor chain comes in. The sign said 5/16, HT ACCO, 133 feet. $1.00 a foot. Yes, ONE dollar a foot for $3.62 chain. I wasn’t going to buy but 75 feet, so I asked if I could lay about that much on the floor. I just wanted to make sure it was not a bunch of short pieces. A salesman nearby snapped, “it’s 133- they just measure it last night”. I bought it all, but they didn’t even help me roll the tub to the car. Back at the slip, I laid it out to measure and mark it. It was not 133 feet. I went back to the store and told them I had measured it, but the guy interrupted that all sales were final. I said, “that’s okay. I just wanted to tell you it was 177 feet, not 133.”

 

[justsomeguy]

 

[Scott T-Bird]

sd1953, nice comments, I agree.

Centerline, I'm not sure what the point of your thread is. You seem to be going to great lengths to denigrate the guy , yet you didn't bother to check out the inventory before purchasing. Also you seem to be gloating that he was such an idiot that you were able to take advantage of such a great deal. If you think that you got the better of the guy, wouldn't the gentlemanly thing to do, be to write a check to him for the amount you feel you gained through ignorance of the seller? Taking advantage and then gloating is kind of offensive. But then maybe I'm misinterpreting. Did he lie and take advantage of you? Or maybe you feel that he lied and tried to take advantage but you were too slick for him.

Since his side of the story isn't presented, I would tend to keep my mouth shut ... just saying.

 

[Joe]

Like Scott said....... "caveat emptor" A bag full of racing sails is not a bad thing. Why would you not inventory everything on the boat at the beginning... rather than take the word of someone you don't know who's desperate to sell a boat.

 

[Apex]

We bought the Catalina 25 without seeing the sails and motor. the PO told us they were good, and simply took their word for it. WHY? Like Centerline we were willing to take a certain amount of risk at that price point.

I didn't read the original post as gloating, rather pleasantly surprised in light of having several not-so-accurate descriptions. the seller sounds like was overwhelmed. and never got around to inventory,which i won't understand. Once I purchased my new boat, I spent several weekends going over every inch to learn/inventory. I know of another fellow at our marina that had electrical problems he couldn't figure out. Several years later, while someone else was helping him, they found a battery in a compartment he never opened....huh! Electrical problems fixed AND new stowage space...

 

[centerline]

sd1953, nice comments, I agree.

Centerline, I'm not sure what the point of your thread is. You seem to be going to great lengths to denigrate the guy , yet you didn't bother to check out the inventory before purchasing. Also you seem to be gloating that he was such an idiot that you were able to take advantage of such a great deal. If you think that you got the better of the guy, wouldn't the gentlemanly thing to do, be to write a check to him for the amount you feel you gained through ignorance of the seller? Taking advantage and then gloating is kind of offensive. But then maybe I'm misinterpreting. Did he lie and take advantage of you? Or maybe you feel that he lied and tried to take advantage but you were too slick for him.

Since his side of the story isn't presented, I would tend to keep my mouth shut ... just saying.

Scott,....
Respectfully, my point is nothing more than a comment about why some people feel they have to lie when they dont know the answer.... even when the truth would be better....I could understand why a person would lie to hide something, but he had absolutely nothing to lie about.
even though I gained here, I have very little respect for blatantly dishonest people...

I havent, and wont, mention his name... karma has its ways....

so, you can view it as me gloating at his ignorance, or making fun of his incompetence, or just making a comment about how much better the deal i got has actually turned out to be... I suppose either way its all the same. a lot of people do it, but some just disguise it better than I do...

and NO...im not as slick as I wish I was.
neither do I feel bad that he had a severe lapse in judgment, so im not going to give him some more money to ease my mind.
a sale, and getting a good deal is all about negotiating and getting the advantage of the opponent. he should have done his homework on the boat he owned for 6 years and used the knowledge to leverage me for more money... his asking price was 22G.

and you are correct, I did not open the sail bags, or all boxes of gear that I didnt even know existed, before purchase. I took his word for it that the sails were as described.
and as I said, the deal could have very easily went the other way.

for the most part, Im glad I didnt open the bags, as if he would have known, im sure he would not have been as willing to dicker on the selling price. IF he would have told me he didnt know what kind of sails were in them, or if they were even for this boat, I definitely would have opened the bags to check them out. and we both would have seen.

one other side to the story is, and why I took his word, and why i put more trust in him than I should have, is the man passes himself of as a "coast guard certified" delivery captain in this area, and claimed to be so busy he didnt have time for his boat anymore.
this has also proved to be a false story....
the only real truth is he had a boat that he dumped as quickly as he could... I bought it.

after re-reading this, I suppose my point is a personal one... his dishonesty backfired on him and I gained.... I guess when I feel the desire to tell the world about it, that is gloating... under the circumstances, im good with that.

 

[centerline]

We bought the Catalina 25 without seeing the sails and motor. the PO told us they were good, and simply took their word for it. WHY? Like Centerline we were willing to take a certain amount of risk at that price point.

I didn't read the original post as gloating, rather pleasantly surprised in light of having several not-so-accurate descriptions. the seller sounds like was overwhelmed. and never got around to inventory,which i won't understand. Once I purchased my new boat, I spent several weekends going over every inch to learn/inventory. I know of another fellow at our marina that had electrical problems he couldn't figure out. Several years later, while someone else was helping him, they found a battery in a compartment he never opened....huh! Electrical problems fixed AND new stowage space...

yea, this is more what I meant... i was surprised and excited to see the sails like that... in addition to the boxes of stuff.
I have went thru and took inventory of all the gear in the boxes, but when i open up approximately $4-5000 dollars worth of new sails, I may have been a bit over excited about it.
maybe some windfalls like this shouldnt be shared with the world???

or maybe it was my unabashed delivery of the news.... I did not mean to be offensive.... sorry!

or, maybe this is the karma the man gets for his "stories" during the negotiation process...

 

[Indysailor]

I have come to believe most of the things the previous owner did not tell me were the result of ignorance rather than malice. All things considered, she sold the boat at a bargain price, so I don't have too many complaints. It would have been nice, had she kept up with the maintenance, but then I probably would not have been able to afford the boat. Necertheless, sometimes I do wonder how a person could have owned a boat for fifteen years and not learned more about how to keep it in good order.

 

[shemandr]

Scott,....
for the most part, Im glad I didnt open the bags, as if he would have known, im sure he would not have been as willing to dicker on the selling price.

Unless you don't have a single poker tell you probably did better by not opening the sail bags. Although I would generally Rx that buyers inspect he sails throughly. It is a PITA. And brokers and sellers generally make it seem like you're killing them. But it is a big deal. I've found that the sail inventory usually lists every sail the boat ever had and just as usually most of them are useless. Worse than that they a dead weight which buyers sometimes carry around for years waiting to use that #2 reacher or whatever. Masthead boats from the '70's are probably the worst offenders.
Buyers: Make them bring those sails out and then beat them mercilessly because they represented that those sails were worth something. See if they even fit the boat. The 170 genoa sheeting to the outboard motor prop? Please!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

What I find really offensive is your continued insistence to call the guy a liar in an open forum. You have shed no light on your immature claim. You gloat that you got the better of the person. You must think that we are all impressed with your prowess at denigrating somebody who may or may not participate in this forum. Nobody here has heard the other side of your story. How is anybody to judge whether or not you are the liar?

You're proud of what you bought, that's fine ... why not simply commend the guy for delivering more than you expected? Your attitude toward a guy who sold you a boat that you are now happy to own is very puzzling, given the circumstance.

Don't you know that one-sided stories are rarely believed or trusted, especially when the only person praised is one-self.

 

[rgranger]

I've restored 6 old sailboats over the years and really got burned once. I purchased a Coronado 23 from a guy in South Carolina (eBay). We met in a WalMart parking lot in North Carolina.

The boat was described as (in sail away condition) just needs a cleaning and some TLC. The sail inventory included a main, hanked on jib and spinnaker. The guy claimed the boat was his fathers and he had sailed it through the Panama Canal from California. Anyway, the boat was on a nice trailer, and looked decent enough when I first saw it, new bottom paint etc. The first time I put it in the water it started taking on about 3 gallons of water an hour. Anyway, the boat was a disaster. The new bottom paint was there to hide the fact that this boat had hit some rocks very hard and probably sat there for some time pounded by surf. The keel was a mess... the inside wood was all rotten and had to be removed to bare hull (you can see pics of this restoration in my folder on this site). I had to reglass stringers and ribs... grind out and repair cracks in the hull and rebuild all of the wood from scratch. And there was no spinnaker in the sail inventory... needless to say CHAD (real name) never responded to my emails when I asked about the spinnaker. I got it all put back together and kind of wish I had kept that boat now. This was the boat that taught me how to work fiberglass.... it is also the boat that taught me that the first thing you do when you buy a used boat is to remove all of the bottom paint ... it always amazes me what you learn when you do that.