Cunningham Rigging Trade-off Question

[Dan_Y]

All -
Don’s book and other’s in this forum convinced me that I need a Cunningham so I’m working through the details of installing a 4:1 Cunningham and need advice that I can’t find in the archives or Google (yet). What’s the operational trade-off between using a Cunningham hook through the downhaul eye to a 4:1 block system versus a line that passes through the downhaul eye and with one end secured to the mast somewhere below the boom, with the other end going to a 2:1 block system? I believe you get 2:1 purchase with the line through the eye (might be wrong there).

The hook approach would allow me to easily stowe the Cunningham when not in use, but I’m thinking that leading the Cunningham control to the cockpit through a clutch is the better way to go and would be a more “permanent” mount. Do most of you lead the Cunningham control line to the cockpit and cleat or clutch it there or control it at the mast? I have one mainsail, so I don’t change it for racing like others here do. TIA, Dan

 

[Chief RA]

On my CM26 I used no pullys and just drew down on the line at the mast with line through the eye. Worked fine. Chief

 

[Jackdaw]

Where you adjust the cunningham is a question of your boat type and sailing.

For a cruising H30 a 2:1 cunningham running back to a clutch and winch will be fine. Most of the time it will be a hand load, and you can winch it on if needed.

A 4:1 at the mast is more powerful of course, but you have to go to the mast to adjust it.

You are correct, If you start the line at the boom, go up to the eye and down you create a 2:1.

 

[Don Guillette]

Dan: You can run it either way but I think running the line to the cockpit is best because "sailors (humans) will do what's easy and won't do what's hard". It's a pain going to the mast to make an adjustment. That's one of the reason I rarely adjusted the main or jib halyard -- I also had a jib cunningham. The cunningham rig I used was one of Garhauer's soft vang's.

 

[shemandr]

Arrrrrr! Put those Tars out on the rail where they belong and they can adjust the cunningham from the deck.

 

[Stu Jackson]

2:1 is more than enough. I had 4:1, one block didn't resist UV and I ditched the blocks. Works just as well. This is on a 34 foot boat. Make sure your mainsail luff slides properly in the groove (we have Harken BattCars). Run it aft, save the $$ on tars, they drink too much rum.

 

[woodster]

here is how i have mine

 

[Chief RA]

Stu: I do wish you would speak nicer of us Tars. I served in the USS Kidd DD661(Pirate of the Pacific) We flew the Jolly Roger just below the American flag on any excuse we could conjure up! She is on display at Baton Rouge La.. Chief

 

[Stu Jackson]

Stu: I do wish you would speak nicer of us Tars. Chief

A true case of "it takes one to know one!" Yo Ho Ho.

 

[Stu Jackson]

here is how i have mine

That's how mine was before the top block died.

A clutch is overkill $$, too. A cam cleat works just fine.

 

[Jackdaw]

A clutch is overkill $$, too. A cam cleat works just fine.

Its also the PERFECT application for a Spinlock PXR powerclutch. They were born for this job.

 

[woodster]

That's how mine was before the top block died.

Garhauer Garhauer my good man

 

[Dan_Y]

Thanks Guys!
Everyone has made just about the same recommendation - which is really helpful. So it looks like l'll do the upper 2:1 in Wooster diagram (line through the downhaul eye) and lead it back to the cockpit through a turning block at the mast base and use a cam cleat. Simple is reliable and way good.

That spinlock PXR cam cleat is one of the coolest mechanisms I have ever seen. Didn't know they existed. I'm adding a topping lift for my whisker pole and a foreguy as well and this looks like the PXR would be great for those applications too. They look exceptionally easy to operate from the video on the spinlock website, meaning the Admiral would be willing to operate it.

I'm beginning to figure out why Jackdaw's boats have so many clutches and cam cleats, and why my mast base has room for so many turning blocks. I'll have outhaul, jib and main halyard, reefing line, Cunningham, main and WP topping lifts and jib car leads in the cockpit. I love trimming sails... hmmm I need that on a bumper sticker.

Thanks again All!

PS What's a Tar and why would I want them on my deck if they drank all of my rum???

 

[Jackdaw]

PXRs are great. And they come in a range of sizes and mounts. All good.

One of the first things to teach your crew about them is YOU NEVER TOUCH THEM. To trim a line, just pull it in. To ease it, pull the line UP then let it ease, then push the line down to trip the PXR back to a locked position. Super easy once known.

As Don says, a line accessible is a line adjusted. Sail trim is a full time job. Its a great feeling rolling over other boats simply because you pay more attention to trim. Our little boat has 16 lines come back to the pit area. The big one, more. Depending on the job the line is held in clutches, PXRs, line locks, or camcleats with cages. Optimal sail control is FAST.

 

[Don Guillette]

Right now I'm in the mountains of NM in my land yacht at 6500' and Jackdaw made me remember something when he mentioned the fun of overtaking boats. One of my young dock neighbors was always trying to pull that stunt on me.

Here's how it would go. We'd be casually sailing along enjoying the day. My wife would be catching rays on the cockpit seat with her back to the cabin wall and she'd tell me "here he comes!!". It was 2 guys and their girlfriends who were going to give the old guy a sailing lesson. I'd both ease the jib sheet and drop the traveler slightly and head up a very small bit - I wanted him passing me on the inside and in my dirty air (which he never seemed to figure out). My wife knew the drill and would tell me when he was about 200' back. When he picked the passing side I wanted I'd come down a bit to force him lower. Then I'd trim in the jib and move the traveler up and head up and take off.

He never passed me when I saw him coming and he never mentioned anything when I saw him later at Shoreline YC in Long Beach, Ca. When he caught me napping he always told me about it!!

I always like messing with the sail trim controls, even when we had guests I had one eye
on the folks and the other eye on the sails. Once a mate figures out how to work their sail trim controls it's amazing how much fun they can have with their boats -- just my opinion.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I count 7 lines on each side

I agree that lines need to be led to where they can be handled conveniently or they won't be useful. If you have full time crew, then the options are more varied ... but for most of us, lines to the cockpit make the most sense.

I also like woodster's diagram and would do the same thing.

So my question ... how do you fit enough turning blocks at the base of the mast and deck organizers to run all those lines? I have 4 halyard turning blocks, and 3 other (smaller) blocks mounted to the base of my mast and don't have any more room. The line from the vang comes directly off the vang. I don't want really want to drill more holes at the base of the mast.

To handle these 8 lines, I have 2 sets of stacked double organizers. I'd have to expand the base to mount stacked triples. I think I would also have to relocate the hand hold to make more room.

I've looked for one of those rings with attachment points that can be mounted at the base of the mast, except they seem to be made for masts that run through the roof. Also, I'm not sure how they fit my mast section. I suppose the other option is to mount stand-up blocks on the roof itself. What are the best options at the base of the mast and for deck organizers?

 

[justsomeguy]

I like my Garhauer mast plate.

http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=68

 

[Jackdaw]

I like my Garhauer mast plate.

http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=68

That's a nice plate. How did you mount it to your mast? The aft attach points are awesome but are usually in the way on a mast that pivots up to be raised.

 

[justsomeguy]

That's a nice plate. How did you mount it to your mast? The forward attach points are awesome but are usually in the way on a mast that pivots up to be raised.

The older style Mac tabernacle allows enough room. In my case, the aft attachment points have suffered slightly during the stepping/unstepping process.

 

[PSR]

With downhaul and halyard both available to adjust luff tension, is a cunningham ever useful?