I currently have a 22 swing keel that works out well for 2-3 day trips with my family. That includes my wife and two kids. We're thinking of doing some longer trips, perhaps as far as Connecticut to Florida. I'd like to stay with as small a boat as possible because I like the flexibility of close in manuevers (like buzzing through mooring fields) without using a motor, getting in close to land for anchoring, and the overall "sporty" feel. A Catalina 25 seems like a great size to me, but I always hear things like "It's way to small", "..not made for that type of crusing..", etc. My ideal would probably be either a swing or wing keel. Aside from the living space issue (which is a non-issue for us), what else should I be concerned about? Are there structural or performance issues that would preclude fairly extended cruising? What type of upgrades should I make to handle this type of cruising?
Crusing
- Thread starter Dan8926
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My 2 cents
I'm kinda in the same boat as you (actually I am in the same boat as you - I too have a C22). When, note I said when not if, I start doing the kind of coastal cruising you are talking about I'm probably going to go for a C27. Not that much bigger, same sailing characteristics, motoring characteristics, etc. I know the usual response is always something like "You really need to get a 45 foot steel ketch to do the type sailing you're talking about!!" But from everything I have read on the Cat 27 I think it is exactly the right size for something like that. Now, if I were going to cross the jet stream and go island hopping I would go for a 30. But that's just me. John
I'm kinda in the same boat as you (actually I am in the same boat as you - I too have a C22). When, note I said when not if, I start doing the kind of coastal cruising you are talking about I'm probably going to go for a C27. Not that much bigger, same sailing characteristics, motoring characteristics, etc. I know the usual response is always something like "You really need to get a 45 foot steel ketch to do the type sailing you're talking about!!" But from everything I have read on the Cat 27 I think it is exactly the right size for something like that. Now, if I were going to cross the jet stream and go island hopping I would go for a 30. But that's just me. John
Catalina 25 is a slow boat
While one person circumnavigated with a shoal keel Catalina 27, this was but one person, not four. Realistically, any thing less than thirty feet for four people will prove very small. Another important consideration is that speed really counts on a long passage. Generally the bigger the boat, the faster it goes. This also is important for motoring in which a large vessel with a diesel will have much greater range than a gasoline powered outboard, not to mention being far safer. A Catalina 25 is a slow boat. Catalina 22's can almost sail circles around them. Further, for serious extended cruising, while coastal only, I would most definitely have a full keel version. The wing keel will not point well and the swing keel at 1,500 pounds hanging in the fashion that it does is a bit too precarious for extended cruising, albeit that someone sailed one from Florida to the Bahamas. Granted that the Merlier’s have sailed a wing keel Catalina 22 great distances even from Florida to the Bahamas, but they are two adults, not two adults with two children. So I do not think that drawing too many conclusions from their experiences to your own is wise. Nevertheless, as it seems you desire a trailerable vessel, you might want to look into a trailerable trimaran. These, I think, can be almost twenty-eight feet and they go like a rocket ship that will be extremely pleasing to your crew.
While one person circumnavigated with a shoal keel Catalina 27, this was but one person, not four. Realistically, any thing less than thirty feet for four people will prove very small. Another important consideration is that speed really counts on a long passage. Generally the bigger the boat, the faster it goes. This also is important for motoring in which a large vessel with a diesel will have much greater range than a gasoline powered outboard, not to mention being far safer. A Catalina 25 is a slow boat. Catalina 22's can almost sail circles around them. Further, for serious extended cruising, while coastal only, I would most definitely have a full keel version. The wing keel will not point well and the swing keel at 1,500 pounds hanging in the fashion that it does is a bit too precarious for extended cruising, albeit that someone sailed one from Florida to the Bahamas. Granted that the Merlier’s have sailed a wing keel Catalina 22 great distances even from Florida to the Bahamas, but they are two adults, not two adults with two children. So I do not think that drawing too many conclusions from their experiences to your own is wise. Nevertheless, as it seems you desire a trailerable vessel, you might want to look into a trailerable trimaran. These, I think, can be almost twenty-eight feet and they go like a rocket ship that will be extremely pleasing to your crew.
Do you really think that they are that Slow?
Bayard: Do you really think that Catalina 25s are that much slower than Catalina 22s? We sailed with one on our summer cruise this past summer on the Chesapeake, and our boats sailed together very well. Our C-22 is competitive with other 22s, usually doing better against the >86 ones. We have also been looking for a Catalina 25 for about a year now, and have since increased the intensity of our search. We need a little more room, but still want to be able to trailer the boat home in the winter. We plan on keeping our C-22 and letting our sons sail that boat. I think that either boat is fine for protected areas like the Chesapeake, or lakes. I had mine to the Florida Keys twice, but I know that I wouldn't take my C-22 to the Bahamas. I do know that C-25s have been taken to the Bahamas. We have looked at at least one of them so far. Dan: We have sailed with our 2 sons on our Catalina 22 since they were born, and I often wonder if I shouldn't have gotten a bigger boat sooner. Aldo
Bayard: Do you really think that Catalina 25s are that much slower than Catalina 22s? We sailed with one on our summer cruise this past summer on the Chesapeake, and our boats sailed together very well. Our C-22 is competitive with other 22s, usually doing better against the >86 ones. We have also been looking for a Catalina 25 for about a year now, and have since increased the intensity of our search. We need a little more room, but still want to be able to trailer the boat home in the winter. We plan on keeping our C-22 and letting our sons sail that boat. I think that either boat is fine for protected areas like the Chesapeake, or lakes. I had mine to the Florida Keys twice, but I know that I wouldn't take my C-22 to the Bahamas. I do know that C-25s have been taken to the Bahamas. We have looked at at least one of them so far. Dan: We have sailed with our 2 sons on our Catalina 22 since they were born, and I often wonder if I shouldn't have gotten a bigger boat sooner. Aldo
C-22 vs C-25
Datum point: I was out lake sailing yesterday with my C-22 mkII and easily sailed through the lee of an older C-25 going to weather in 10-15 kt winds. However, I could see his sail trim could have been improved.
Datum point: I was out lake sailing yesterday with my C-22 mkII and easily sailed through the lee of an older C-25 going to weather in 10-15 kt winds. However, I could see his sail trim could have been improved.
C-25 speed
Aldo, I think your statement about sailing with a C-25 “our boats sailed together very well” well shows that a C-22 does do well against a C-25 that is three feet longer and has a much larger sail area. By all accounts, for a 25 foot boat, it is slow. However, that does not mean it is not competitive. With a PHRF rating of about 240 to 250, a C-25 properly skippered can do well in PHRF races. I know because I raced on one this summer. It helped that I was familiar with the boat as I have a C-22, and knew enough to get my fat butt forward on the downwind legs. Nevertheless, we took first place on corrected time against some far faster vessels.
Aldo, I think your statement about sailing with a C-25 “our boats sailed together very well” well shows that a C-22 does do well against a C-25 that is three feet longer and has a much larger sail area. By all accounts, for a 25 foot boat, it is slow. However, that does not mean it is not competitive. With a PHRF rating of about 240 to 250, a C-25 properly skippered can do well in PHRF races. I know because I raced on one this summer. It helped that I was familiar with the boat as I have a C-22, and knew enough to get my fat butt forward on the downwind legs. Nevertheless, we took first place on corrected time against some far faster vessels.
Many factors to consider!
My Wife and I raised our 2 kids on our Catalina 22. We Raced and did alot of daysailing. Kids grew up and out We bought our 87 Catalina 25 tr/sk "Leprechaun" and have not regretted it. We race this boat but long term plans are for ICW/Great Lakes-. You have to decide what you want to do with it. Buying the boat is a lot cheaper than maintaining it-The bigger the boat the higher the maintaince costs. The C25 is the biggest trailerable boat-Lots of room,marine head,shore power,shoal draft,STABLE,SAFE. They are also sail differently than a 22-Both are nice boats. If money were no object, I would look at Catalina 30-34-36,Valiant 40,Beneteau 40. Budget/destinations have alot to do with it. Alan
My Wife and I raised our 2 kids on our Catalina 22. We Raced and did alot of daysailing. Kids grew up and out We bought our 87 Catalina 25 tr/sk "Leprechaun" and have not regretted it. We race this boat but long term plans are for ICW/Great Lakes-. You have to decide what you want to do with it. Buying the boat is a lot cheaper than maintaining it-The bigger the boat the higher the maintaince costs. The C25 is the biggest trailerable boat-Lots of room,marine head,shore power,shoal draft,STABLE,SAFE. They are also sail differently than a 22-Both are nice boats. If money were no object, I would look at Catalina 30-34-36,Valiant 40,Beneteau 40. Budget/destinations have alot to do with it. Alan
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