Cruising with Propane

[Jon Bastien]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the midst of preparing my Hunter 290 for some long-range coastal cruising (The Great Loop), and have a question for others who've been there--

Where do you get a non-standard size propane cylinder refilled?

Most places I've seen lately have converted to an exchange-type program- you bring an empty cylinder and exchange it for a full one, rather than have your cylinder refilled on the spot. Unfortunately, they typically only carry the 20-lb bottles that attach to your backyard BBQ grill, and the cylinder on my boat is only a 4-lb bottle.

I'm guessing that there are still hardware stores, marinas, and RV supply places that will refill tanks, but I've only seen two of them in the last 3 years. Further, since I'll be cruising, I won't have ready access to a car to run across town to the one place that fills tanks.

As a backup, I purchased an adapter that will allow me to connect a 1-lb bottle (the green camping bottles) up to the propane solenoid in the locker in case the main tank runs out while I'm cooking dinner; but I'd rather not have to purchase and store a metric ton of disposable bottles if I don't have to.

...So, is this really an issue, or am I over-thinking it? Is it actually pretty easy to find places that sell bulk propane, or should I buy stock in the company that makes the little green bottles before I start my trip?

Thanks,
--Jon

 

[Jimm]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the midst of preparing my Hunter 290 for some long-range coastal cruising (The Great Loop), and have a question for others who've been there--

Where do you get a non-standard size propane cylinder refilled?

Most places I've seen lately have converted to an exchange-type program- you bring an empty cylinder and exchange it for a full one, rather than have your cylinder refilled on the spot. Unfortunately, they typically only carry the 20-lb bottles that attach to your backyard BBQ grill, and the cylinder on my boat is only a 4-lb bottle.
.........

Thanks,
--Jon

Jon - I go to an equipment rental place or a residential supplier of bulk propane.

A related question ---- can you safely carry a larger tank than will fit in the box as an extended supply?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Jon, that's a great trip to be looking forward to. Have fun. Most likely you are aware of the Great Loop Association website. Don't they have supplies and services listed? You would not be the first skipper to be asking this question. There is also www.activecaptain.com which has services listed. From what I've read over the years, you won't need a car since other boaters and local citizens tend to be very helpful along the way.

Safe journey.

 

[Chris Patterson]

Around here, there are several refill stations. This IS the way to go. With the blue rhino exchange bottles, you're only getting 14 lbs. of gas, whereas with a refill, you get thereabouts of 20 lbs. The exchanges are usually about 22, to 26 bucks for that 14 lbs, versus $14.99 for the refilled 20 lbs. Helluva difference. And who cares if the tank has a fresh paint job on it. If the tank gets to looking shabby, a little silver or white paint will fix this all day long for 3 dollars..

 

[med2463]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the midst of preparing my Hunter 290 for some long-range coastal cruising (The Great Loop), and have a question for others who've been there--

Where do you get a non-standard size propane cylinder refilled?

Most places I've seen lately have converted to an exchange-type program- you bring an empty cylinder and exchange it for a full one, rather than have your cylinder refilled on the spot. Unfortunately, they typically only carry the 20-lb bottles that attach to your backyard BBQ grill, and the cylinder on my boat is only a 4-lb bottle.

I'm guessing that there are still hardware stores, marinas, and RV supply places that will refill tanks, but I've only seen two of them in the last 3 years. Further, since I'll be cruising, I won't have ready access to a car to run across town to the one place that fills tanks.

As a backup, I purchased an adapter that will allow me to connect a 1-lb bottle (the green camping bottles) up to the propane solenoid in the locker in case the main tank runs out while I'm cooking dinner; but I'd rather not have to purchase and store a metric ton of disposable bottles if I don't have to.

...So, is this really an issue, or am I over-thinking it? Is it actually pretty easy to find places that sell bulk propane, or should I buy stock in the company that makes the little green bottles before I start my trip?

Thanks,
--Jon

Cruisers net lists propane availability. Go to their website and click on the region on the right of the page. http://cruisersnet.net

 

[Caboteur]

Propane refill

Hi Jon,
I've traveled from the Bahamas to Chicago with five pound cylinders (one for the stove-oven and one for the BBQ) and a one pound replacement. In the last five years I've gone through one one pounder and am on the second one now.
I've only done half of the Great Loop but can say that bulk propane wasn't an issue. My five pounder will usually last about a month on the stove-oven and maybe a year on the BBQ. When the stove-oven runs out I switch the tanks and put the one pounder on the BBQ.
So, about once a month I have to find a bulk propane distributor... there are some just about everywhere: campgrounds and some service stations in remote areas. As was mentioned before someone always offers a lift or even to have it filled as he or she returns home for the night and bring it back the next day.
Enjoy the Great Loop... a fantastic cruise... at least the half i've done.
Pierre

 

[Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi]

U-Haul locations have propane. Check out their locations and you can find a place to refill. It is quick and easy.

 

[Phil Herring]

Jon, you might be running into some tough state regs there. Up here in WA it's just the opposite: the swap programs are rare and everybody does on-the-spot refills.

 

[Ross]

We have swap and refill here in Maryland. I pick up abandoned old style tanks and swap them for the high priced exchange tanks and then have the modern tanks refilled. That way I get a fairly new modern tank for about $10.

 

[tkanzler]

If you have two cylinders, and a proper place to store them, then it's not a big deal, as you can go a long time on one if you're not baking bread every day. I don't see a hatch on the swim platform of the 290's, so I don't know what Hunter did for a propane locker, but presumably there's one (with a direct drain line to the outside from the bottom of the locker). Using one-pound bottles is a good way to tide you over between fills, though. And if you buy another 4 lb bottle, be sure to store it upright, as overpressurization can release liquid propane otherwise.

As to refilling, we have loads of places around here, so I wasn't even aware that it would be a problem. I pay $20 for 20 lb barbeque tank refills, and sometimes I'd get some grief from folks who didn't know what to do with a 4 lb bottle ($20/20 * 4 = $4 - doh!), so a little patience helps there. They're not supposed to rely on the OPD to stop the fill at 80%, though, and they don't like touching the scale usually, so that too can give them fits. Hopefully yours has the trilobular shutoff valve handle on top which indicates the OPD. Since their use has been required since September of 1998, there's a good chance your 290 has it/them, and being that old, they were supposed to be requalified (after 10 years) anyway, in which case OPD's would have to have been installed.

 

[Jon Bastien]

Thanks for all the tips! This is helping to ease my worries a bit... Especially the U-Haul tip- they're practically everywhere!

TKanzler, the propane locker on the H290 is located under the port cockpit (corner) seat, using one of these to ensure that any vapors go overboard rather than into the bilge. There isn't room for a second box, or really any place to store a spare bottle... so I'm relying on the green bottles (which I'm using aboard anyway for the grill and the outboard) as a backup. I'm keeping the spare green bottles in a mesh bag hanging from the starboard side of the traveler arch.

Thanks again for all the tips, and I look forward to seeing you out on the water!

--Jon

 

[zeehag]

i cruise with propane--i wouldnt cook with anything else.it is readily available in many countries and it is actually safer than alcohol.

 

[Benny17441]

Yes, you may be overthinking this. Know the weight of your empty tank. Some manufacturers will stamp the weight for you at the bottom of the tank if not go ahead and weigh it. The difference in weight between the empty and full tank should be around 4 lbs which is the weight of the propane. Make a simple chart indicatin the weight of the tank at Full, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4. With your tank it will be easy as the markers will be spaced at 1lb difference. With this information and a "scale" you will know at any time approximately how much propane you have left. It is easy also to determine how many days of use you get out of a single pound so now you will know how much you have and how long it will last. I strongly encourage that you take at least two 1 lb green bottles in case you cannot find a re-fill in those few days between 1/4 tank and empty. You may not have a car but many Marinas will either have a loaner or an employee that will run you to the nearest town and back for a couple of dollars. Get a cruising guide that lists the marinas in route and may indicate what services the provide. If it provides telephones you may call ahead and ask.

 

[zeehag]

here in mexico there are actually delivery services for propane---they come to marinas, fill the tanks and go.. in some places you have them pickup the tanks, the propane guy fills em and then your tank is returned to you either by you going to marina office to claim it or by having it delivered to your slip. there are propane farms if you have a car---it is less than 5 pesos difference for delivery and for going to propane farm to have your tank filled...

 

[tkanzler]

Since someone brought it up, here's a few things you might find useful about propane cylinders.

All DOT (portable) cylinders, including your 4 lb, the ubiquitous 20 lb, 100 lb, and even forklift cylinders (designed for horizontal operation), have certain data stamped on the ring, including:

TW - tare weight, the empty weight of the cylinder and valve, in lbs.

WC - water capacity, the weight of water the cylinder can hold if filled to the top, in lb.

A Date Code - MM YY format, add 12 years to this expiration date, at which point it has to be requalified. If there's an "S" suffix, requalification is in 7 years; an "E" suffix means requalification within 5 years.

DOT Code - a bunch of letters and numbers showing construction type and alloy, with the last three digits indicating the service pressure rating, usually 240 for steel (higher for alloys and aluminium).

If you want to know how much gas it can legally hold, multiply the WC value by 0.42 to get pounds of propane.

Liquid propane has a density of about .52 times that of water (from memory, but it's close), so if you filled a 20 lb cylinder to the top with propane, which would hold 47 lb of water (WC 47.0 lb on the ring, a common value for 20 lb cylinders), you'd have 24.4 lb of propane. Since you aren't allowed to fill to greater than 80% of capacity, that's about 20 lb of propane. The 0.42 multiplier puts both propane density and the 80% rule into a single number for convenience - .42 x 47 lb = 19.74 lb of propane in a 20 lb cylinder.

So your 4 lb cylinder should have a WC value of around 7.7 lb stamped on the ring. The TW plus the WC x .42 value will be the weight of the cylinder when it's filled to the legal 80% limit.

There's a lot of confusion out there with places like Blue Rino filling 20 lb cylinders to 16 lb, and 'knowledgeable' folks explaining that it's because of the 80% rule, but it's really (IMO) just a way to advertise lower prices for a refill. Look for the unit pricing (usually per gallon, unfortunately, also not by accident IMO). I pay $20 for a 20 lb refill at my local refill station, and they fill it all the way (I check). At 47 lb WC and 8.33 lb/gallon for water, the 20 lb cylinder would hold 5.64 gallons (of anything) if filled to the top. 80% of that is about 4.5 gallons, so my $20 refill is $4.43/gallon. My local Home Depot Blue Rino stand has unit pricing in $/gal a bit higher than that, but they don't fill it all the way, so the 'refill' price is less than $20.

Since you're not going to be exchanging your 4 lb cylinder anywhere, it pays to at least be aware of how much a full cylinder should actually weigh, and how much it will actually hold (legally), especially if you're dealing with refill personnel who get flustered by anything other than a standard steel 20 lb cylinder.

My Hunter had two cylinders that each held 4.5 lb of propane legally, just so you know, but the locker was under the port side swim platform instead of under the cockpit seat, with the platform opening at the top and a vent to the outside. The solenoid was in there, too, as it should be. Looks like a nice setup you have, though it would be nice to have a place to store more propane. I keep a couple of green bottles in the gasoline tank cubbies (outside) on my present boat, as I don't like keeping even the small ones in a closed space like the cabin.

 

[Chris Patterson]

I found this in a cabinet of one I was working on a couple of weeks ago.

Nuff said..

 

[Stu Jackson]

What?!? No shelves?!?

 

[Chris Patterson]

I guess you see the quart of paint thinner in the back. That's trinitrotoluene in the box below it..

 

[vtsailguy]

I have a family of five and have cruised all summer with three 2.5 lb tanks, cooking dinners, coffee in morning etc.

We did one full week and then about ten days worth, so perhaps 15 days sailing. Still on the first tank, if that is any guide.

I have another question as we have propane guru's here!

Currently my three tanks are in a case in the cockpit. I could really use more space, and would like to get them out of there. If I mount the active one on the rail with the line, could the other two be stored below decks?

I have zero locker space in the cockpit, so no handy locker to put them in.