There is a racer out there that claims that novices can learn more in a few weeks of racing than in years of cruising. Go out there for a few weeks and come back and tell us all you learned about anchoring, navigation, weather forecasting, storm tactics, provisioning, boat systems and others. The skills necessary for racing are just a few in number of those needed for cruising, that is why it may take years of experience to learn how to cruise. I know a few cruisers that can trim sails with the best of them.
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Two different animals
Racers have to provision, too!
This is an argument that has gone on for ages. I think the best calming influence is Don Guillette's point that there are no two different ways to set sails (i.e., racers or cruisers). Either the sails are set right or not. Anyway, the best part is that both racers and cruisers have boats and enjoy them. I cruised for many, many years before I did some racing. Learned lots from BOTH activities. Ended up with a racing boat in cruising weight!
Racers have to provision, too!
This is an argument that has gone on for ages. I think the best calming influence is Don Guillette's point that there are no two different ways to set sails (i.e., racers or cruisers). Either the sails are set right or not. Anyway, the best part is that both racers and cruisers have boats and enjoy them. I cruised for many, many years before I did some racing. Learned lots from BOTH activities. Ended up with a racing boat in cruising weight! 
I know a lot more racers
than cruisers that can trim sails well. I agree about the other aspects of cruising but for pure sailing skills, racing is a good way to accelerate your learning. Although, I also know some racers that cannot trim sails for beans. They tend to be the ones who know everything about everything and don't need input from others. I think some even secretly lurk on this board;-) Tim R.
than cruisers that can trim sails well. I agree about the other aspects of cruising but for pure sailing skills, racing is a good way to accelerate your learning. Although, I also know some racers that cannot trim sails for beans. They tend to be the ones who know everything about everything and don't need input from others. I think some even secretly lurk on this board;-) Tim R.
Both are Great!
Sunshine: Both activities are wonderful! I do a little of both and have learned a lot about handling a craft in close quarters while racing. For me that's the best reason for racing, i.e. learning to handle the boat a little better, a little quicker. However, aside from what Stu says, the racers I know take more chances while racing than cruising with respect to not reducing sail in advance of possible strong winds. So I'm not so sure about the comment about only one way to set sails. If you're too conservative when racing, you tend to settle back in the pack, even though you do live to sail another day. And prudent cruising is definitely more relaxing for me and my crew. Sylvan
Sunshine: Both activities are wonderful! I do a little of both and have learned a lot about handling a craft in close quarters while racing. For me that's the best reason for racing, i.e. learning to handle the boat a little better, a little quicker. However, aside from what Stu says, the racers I know take more chances while racing than cruising with respect to not reducing sail in advance of possible strong winds. So I'm not so sure about the comment about only one way to set sails. If you're too conservative when racing, you tend to settle back in the pack, even though you do live to sail another day. And prudent cruising is definitely more relaxing for me and my crew. Sylvan
Depends on the skipper
I am a cruiser although I have done some racing. I have sailed with skippers who have just bought their fisrt boat and think they are Ted Turner. I know one racing skipper who I am quite sure could single-hand around the world and handle anything that could possibly up. And there is everything between. I agree with Les, it is simply all about getting out and logging the miles. Preferably with a skipper who knows what he/she is doing and is willing to share the knowledge. Doesn't matter if it's a cruising boat or a racing boat as long as the skipper is a good one. Personally, I would rather go out on a boat that sails for three days on one tack than a boat that sails for 3 hours around bouys that are a mile apart.
I am a cruiser although I have done some racing. I have sailed with skippers who have just bought their fisrt boat and think they are Ted Turner. I know one racing skipper who I am quite sure could single-hand around the world and handle anything that could possibly up. And there is everything between. I agree with Les, it is simply all about getting out and logging the miles. Preferably with a skipper who knows what he/she is doing and is willing to share the knowledge. Doesn't matter if it's a cruising boat or a racing boat as long as the skipper is a good one. Personally, I would rather go out on a boat that sails for three days on one tack than a boat that sails for 3 hours around bouys that are a mile apart.
I cruise and don't race but the skills learned in
racing will help a cruiser. I believe that a cruiser will reef long before a racer will and that a racer is much more likely to break something than is a cruiser. A cruiser is likely to be satisfied with 5+knots but a racer will want 5.47 knots because second place is not what you strive for. A cruiser is interested in a noon to noon run. A racer is interested in rounding the mark first. For one today is all that matters and for the other tomorrow is just as important as today.
racing will help a cruiser. I believe that a cruiser will reef long before a racer will and that a racer is much more likely to break something than is a cruiser. A cruiser is likely to be satisfied with 5+knots but a racer will want 5.47 knots because second place is not what you strive for. A cruiser is interested in a noon to noon run. A racer is interested in rounding the mark first. For one today is all that matters and for the other tomorrow is just as important as today.
A coin has two sides
There are racers and then there are racers. There a cruisers and then there are cruisers. Certainly, when trimming sails, my money goes with a racer - but that does not mean a cruiser can't be good at it. I would rather be with a cruiser if anchoring or sailing through a hurricane. Heavy weather is a toss up. Seasoned cruisers have seen their share of heavy weather and storms as have racers. Cruisers will certainly be more conservative in these conditions, but still must survive them. Racers are more likely to disable theri vessels in these conditions. What is good seamanship? Pushing your boat until something breaks and then deal with the consequences - or guiding your boat through the situation in a way that the voyage can be continued w/o damage? Depends on what is important to the skipper.
There are racers and then there are racers. There a cruisers and then there are cruisers. Certainly, when trimming sails, my money goes with a racer - but that does not mean a cruiser can't be good at it. I would rather be with a cruiser if anchoring or sailing through a hurricane. Heavy weather is a toss up. Seasoned cruisers have seen their share of heavy weather and storms as have racers. Cruisers will certainly be more conservative in these conditions, but still must survive them. Racers are more likely to disable theri vessels in these conditions. What is good seamanship? Pushing your boat until something breaks and then deal with the consequences - or guiding your boat through the situation in a way that the voyage can be continued w/o damage? Depends on what is important to the skipper.
What the?
Anyone who really feels a need to join in on this discussion (argument) really needs to understand that spring has just begun! If you are really a sailor... soon you go sailing and relieve those frustrations! Get over it!!
Anyone who really feels a need to join in on this discussion (argument) really needs to understand that spring has just begun! If you are really a sailor... soon you go sailing and relieve those frustrations! Get over it!!
Cruisers & Racers
I do both, and have learned from both sides. We don't usually do races that last more than a day or two so provisioning isn't one of the things learned in racing. I'm sure that there are racers out there that have to provision for longer races. Navigation, If you can't find the marks, you're screwed Weather forcasting & storm tactics, When you're racing, weather doesn't stop the race, you have to sail through it. It makes us better sailors to have to go into weather instead of staying anchored and waiting the storm out. 40 kt winds in a 25 ft boat 7 miles from the nearest cover really gets your heart pumping. Boat systems our boat doesn't have every system that a true cruising boat has, but they still break and we still have to fix them. Racing is fun, we don't race to compete, we race to enjoy sailing and to drink beer. We cruise for the same reasons. So they are alot alike.
I do both, and have learned from both sides. We don't usually do races that last more than a day or two so provisioning isn't one of the things learned in racing. I'm sure that there are racers out there that have to provision for longer races. Navigation, If you can't find the marks, you're screwed Weather forcasting & storm tactics, When you're racing, weather doesn't stop the race, you have to sail through it. It makes us better sailors to have to go into weather instead of staying anchored and waiting the storm out. 40 kt winds in a 25 ft boat 7 miles from the nearest cover really gets your heart pumping. Boat systems our boat doesn't have every system that a true cruising boat has, but they still break and we still have to fix them. Racing is fun, we don't race to compete, we race to enjoy sailing and to drink beer. We cruise for the same reasons. So they are alot alike.
Trim
Trim is trim and the need for good trim doesn't change whether you are racing or cruising. The difference is that a racer's trim is graded easily by seeing their results (race result and visually seeing others leave them in the dust). A cruiser doesn't get graded on his trim. A cruiser could be the best trimmer in the world but wouldn't know if unless he raced. A cruiser could be the worst trimmer in the world and he wouldn't know it unless he raced. A racer knows how good of a trimmer he is. I'm not a racer but hopefully I will get to do the Race To The Border this spring. Being a racer can help in being a good cruiser but in no way does being a good racer make a good cruiser.
Trim is trim and the need for good trim doesn't change whether you are racing or cruising. The difference is that a racer's trim is graded easily by seeing their results (race result and visually seeing others leave them in the dust). A cruiser doesn't get graded on his trim. A cruiser could be the best trimmer in the world but wouldn't know if unless he raced. A cruiser could be the worst trimmer in the world and he wouldn't know it unless he raced. A racer knows how good of a trimmer he is. I'm not a racer but hopefully I will get to do the Race To The Border this spring. Being a racer can help in being a good cruiser but in no way does being a good racer make a good cruiser.
I Don't Care
I am not a racer, have never been a racer and more than likely never will be a racer. I can trim the sails pretty well, but usually I don't bother. Cruising for me is a relaxing, take it easy kind of life style. Isn't that what it's all about anyway. I really don't care if I gain that extra quarter or half knot. So, I get the sails set pretty good, and leave them alone. I think that a lot of those who consider themselves cruisers are what I consider weekend sailors, who spend the weekend on their boats, and more time having cocktails at the dock than actually sailing. I know one couple who consider roughing it a marina without a 5 star resturant close by, and would not even consider anchoring out. But they like to talk about max boat speed, like it is the most important part of boating.
I am not a racer, have never been a racer and more than likely never will be a racer. I can trim the sails pretty well, but usually I don't bother. Cruising for me is a relaxing, take it easy kind of life style. Isn't that what it's all about anyway. I really don't care if I gain that extra quarter or half knot. So, I get the sails set pretty good, and leave them alone. I think that a lot of those who consider themselves cruisers are what I consider weekend sailors, who spend the weekend on their boats, and more time having cocktails at the dock than actually sailing. I know one couple who consider roughing it a marina without a 5 star resturant close by, and would not even consider anchoring out. But they like to talk about max boat speed, like it is the most important part of boating.
cruiser born of racing
We all love to get the most out of our boats. There is no better education for sail trim and helmsmanship than racing. While many won't like the pressure, and attitude, if you wanna learn to go fast, go racin'. BUT...if you look forward to a strong cup of coffee after a night of stargazing and a sound sleep on a sure hook, learn the lee, the good bottom, and the velcroed mosquito netting from your fellow cruisers. So Barber haul the Genny clew, max out the slot, and get those telltales dancing so you can get her up on her hip where you're comfortable. It's all good.
We all love to get the most out of our boats. There is no better education for sail trim and helmsmanship than racing. While many won't like the pressure, and attitude, if you wanna learn to go fast, go racin'. BUT...if you look forward to a strong cup of coffee after a night of stargazing and a sound sleep on a sure hook, learn the lee, the good bottom, and the velcroed mosquito netting from your fellow cruisers. So Barber haul the Genny clew, max out the slot, and get those telltales dancing so you can get her up on her hip where you're comfortable. It's all good.
Sailing skills
Sunshine - As you said, there's a lot more to cruising than sail trim, but a novice WILL learn more during a season of crewing for a good racing skipper about the business of making a boat go under sail that he may learn in a lifetime of cruising. This is especially true in one-design, round-the-buoys racing: the skipper will look after the strategies, timing, steering and all the other stuff that goes into racing while the crew is, or should be, 100% focused on sail trim, setting & related issues. These are skills that a cruising sailor should have, even if they aren't trying to drive the boat to the maximum. The other skills required of a cruiser, and there are many, may indeed take several years of experience to learn adequately. But if you're cruising on a sailing craft, the ability to sail the boat well is paramount.
Sunshine - As you said, there's a lot more to cruising than sail trim, but a novice WILL learn more during a season of crewing for a good racing skipper about the business of making a boat go under sail that he may learn in a lifetime of cruising. This is especially true in one-design, round-the-buoys racing: the skipper will look after the strategies, timing, steering and all the other stuff that goes into racing while the crew is, or should be, 100% focused on sail trim, setting & related issues. These are skills that a cruising sailor should have, even if they aren't trying to drive the boat to the maximum. The other skills required of a cruiser, and there are many, may indeed take several years of experience to learn adequately. But if you're cruising on a sailing craft, the ability to sail the boat well is paramount.
The Most Important Ability is Adaptability
Les (post #3) makes some good points, and his experience shows: the two types of sailing overlap in places, specifically in sail trim & "knowledge of the sea," but the cruiser has so many other concerns than merely making maximum speed in all conditions, and it doesn't need to be said again that the cruiser doesn't put a premium on that last quarter-knot, though the overall efficiency of the sail plan does demand a significant portion of his attention. His goals are significant'y different from the racer's, but they both share some basic skills. It's not an either/or: it's "what do they know that is adaptable to what I'm doing?"
Les (post #3) makes some good points, and his experience shows: the two types of sailing overlap in places, specifically in sail trim & "knowledge of the sea," but the cruiser has so many other concerns than merely making maximum speed in all conditions, and it doesn't need to be said again that the cruiser doesn't put a premium on that last quarter-knot, though the overall efficiency of the sail plan does demand a significant portion of his attention. His goals are significant'y different from the racer's, but they both share some basic skills. It's not an either/or: it's "what do they know that is adaptable to what I'm doing?"
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