I'm wondering if there is a sealant that is impervious to diesel (fuel tank) and will form a good seal between the cross-linked polyethylene tank and a plastic Beckson access plate. I had fuel problems and wanted to thouroughly clean out my tank this past season. I cut an access hole big enough to get my arm inside so I could reach all the corners. Another sailor has recommended a SeaBuilt stainless access port (www.seabuilt.com) which goes for about $180-210 for the size I need. I was hoping for a less expensive alternative. One other product I looked at is called Permatex. I called the company and was told by a tech that their products do not adhere to polyethylene. Any advice is appreciated. Joe Mullee
Cross-Linked Polyethylene, Diesel, and Sealants. Need Advice.
- Thread starter Joe Mullee
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why not just use a gasket?
Joe: Why not use a gasket. You should be able to pick up something at your local automotive part shop that deal with diesels. They should have a rubber or cork material that will allow you to seal the port. I am sure that there is some sort of sealant that you could also goop on in case you have any reservations. I would thru bolt the access plate with lock nuts, nylocs or something like that too.
Joe: Why not use a gasket. You should be able to pick up something at your local automotive part shop that deal with diesels. They should have a rubber or cork material that will allow you to seal the port. I am sure that there is some sort of sealant that you could also goop on in case you have any reservations. I would thru bolt the access plate with lock nuts, nylocs or something like that too.
Steve
Would a standard rubber/cork gasket do the job? That's certainly easy enough. I did see them at the automotive store I was at but didn't know if the material would work. Thanks, Joe
Would a standard rubber/cork gasket do the job? That's certainly easy enough. I did see them at the automotive store I was at but didn't know if the material would work. Thanks, Joe
Neoprene Gasket
The Seabuilt access hatch uses two 1/8" neoprene gaskets which are necessary on a crosslinked poly tank because the inside surface in probably not all that smooth. I bought and installed one after cleaning out the tank, the stainless parts will outlast the plastic you are considering, and the threaded ring may leak as it isn't designed for fuel. Many automotive type gasket sealers are soluable in Diesel oil. I'd suggest you take another look at the Seabuilt system.
The Seabuilt access hatch uses two 1/8" neoprene gaskets which are necessary on a crosslinked poly tank because the inside surface in probably not all that smooth. I bought and installed one after cleaning out the tank, the stainless parts will outlast the plastic you are considering, and the threaded ring may leak as it isn't designed for fuel. Many automotive type gasket sealers are soluable in Diesel oil. I'd suggest you take another look at the Seabuilt system.
Here is some info.
When they reduced the sulfur level of the fuel the EPA also mandated that the aromatic content of ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) Fuel also be lowered. This can affect seals in older equipment (on road and off-road). The older equipment has seals that need aromatics to keep them from shrinking. In 1993 when we first went from high sulfur (not greater than 5,000 parts per million sulfur) down to 500ppm sulfur the aromatics where also reduced and many fuel pumps and seals started leaking. The fix was to replace the seals with seals that did not need aromatics to keep them from shrinking. With the introduction of ULSD it has been stated by the (so called experts) experts that this should not be a problem this time around or if it is a problem it would be very limited. As we start putting this new fuel into our vehicles we will find out how much of a problem it will really be since no one knows for sure. Our products, Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement are not silver bullets, however they will help to prevent a lot of problems with the new fuels. The EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association) says that ULSD will cause many problems that can be overcome with the use of a good additive. For example the EMA says that you will need to use a detergent to keep carbon deposits from forming in the injectors caused by the new fuels. They also say that lubricity should be higher, that a fuel stability package should be used and that the Cetane Number should also be higher. Diesel Fuel Supplement and Diesel Kleen will help with these problems and will also lessen the problem of leaking seals. The EMA also says that microbial contamination will be greater. You should use Diesel Kleen in the non-winter months and Diesel Fuel Supplement in the winter months. If you have any other questions or concerns please let me know. By the way, I have 2 older tractors and a 1998 Dodge truck. It is not that I am concerned but the thought of having to pay to fix a problem if it arises makes me worry about these new fuels. I will also be keeping my fingers crossed that the experts are correct and only minor problems will arise with the use of the new fuels. Best regards, Brian Wilson Technical Advisor Compliance Coordinator (800)643-9089 bwilson@powerservice.com
When they reduced the sulfur level of the fuel the EPA also mandated that the aromatic content of ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) Fuel also be lowered. This can affect seals in older equipment (on road and off-road). The older equipment has seals that need aromatics to keep them from shrinking. In 1993 when we first went from high sulfur (not greater than 5,000 parts per million sulfur) down to 500ppm sulfur the aromatics where also reduced and many fuel pumps and seals started leaking. The fix was to replace the seals with seals that did not need aromatics to keep them from shrinking. With the introduction of ULSD it has been stated by the (so called experts) experts that this should not be a problem this time around or if it is a problem it would be very limited. As we start putting this new fuel into our vehicles we will find out how much of a problem it will really be since no one knows for sure. Our products, Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement are not silver bullets, however they will help to prevent a lot of problems with the new fuels. The EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association) says that ULSD will cause many problems that can be overcome with the use of a good additive. For example the EMA says that you will need to use a detergent to keep carbon deposits from forming in the injectors caused by the new fuels. They also say that lubricity should be higher, that a fuel stability package should be used and that the Cetane Number should also be higher. Diesel Fuel Supplement and Diesel Kleen will help with these problems and will also lessen the problem of leaking seals. The EMA also says that microbial contamination will be greater. You should use Diesel Kleen in the non-winter months and Diesel Fuel Supplement in the winter months. If you have any other questions or concerns please let me know. By the way, I have 2 older tractors and a 1998 Dodge truck. It is not that I am concerned but the thought of having to pay to fix a problem if it arises makes me worry about these new fuels. I will also be keeping my fingers crossed that the experts are correct and only minor problems will arise with the use of the new fuels. Best regards, Brian Wilson Technical Advisor Compliance Coordinator (800)643-9089 bwilson@powerservice.com
Probably more problem with the port too.
Joe: You may also have problems with any port that is NOT designed for fuel. You may want to reconsider the Beckson port. They are using regular old neopreme orings that don't even seal that well to keep water in let alone diesel fuel. I need to agree that a paper gasket on these tanks may not be the best option. It may be different if you were working with a metal tank.
Joe: You may also have problems with any port that is NOT designed for fuel. You may want to reconsider the Beckson port. They are using regular old neopreme orings that don't even seal that well to keep water in let alone diesel fuel. I need to agree that a paper gasket on these tanks may not be the best option. It may be different if you were working with a metal tank.
Not much adheres to polyethylene ....
The BEST is to go to a 'gasket supply or gasket shop' (also listed as 'sheet rubber distributors') and have them either cut you a gasket or buy sheet material and cut yourself .... out of EPDM rubber (EthylenePropyleneDiamineMonomer) which is the most compatible for fuel oil, then EPR (Ethylene Propylene Rubber) ... both also compatible with 'bio-diesel' .... then the lesser choices become Neoprene or BUNA (ultimately swells in contact with diesel fuel and swells extremely with bio-diesel .... sooner or later you WILL be using bio-diesel mixtures). With more widespread usage of ethanolated and 'bio' fuels ultimately ONLY EPDM/EPR will be suitable. Sometimes available is a compound called 'Santoprene' an elastic foam that has equivalent chemical resistivity to EPDM. To make such gasket material 'work' youll need to add a flange to the tank ... by making a flange/sister-flange with studs and a handhole cover plate .... all bolted together with a 'gasket' between to make the 'seal'. For all of the above see if you can get such material somewhere near 45 or 50 durometer (a measurement of the softness/pliability) if possible, the 'usual' is 70 durometer which may be difficult compress to make it 'seal'. Nothing will 'stick' to Polyethylene (its too 'waxy') ... not Permatex, not 5200, not epoxy, not paint. not 'joint compound', not grape jelly, etc. ...... NOTHNG!!! To seal PE you have to use a soft gasket. ;-)
The BEST is to go to a 'gasket supply or gasket shop' (also listed as 'sheet rubber distributors') and have them either cut you a gasket or buy sheet material and cut yourself .... out of EPDM rubber (EthylenePropyleneDiamineMonomer) which is the most compatible for fuel oil, then EPR (Ethylene Propylene Rubber) ... both also compatible with 'bio-diesel' .... then the lesser choices become Neoprene or BUNA (ultimately swells in contact with diesel fuel and swells extremely with bio-diesel .... sooner or later you WILL be using bio-diesel mixtures). With more widespread usage of ethanolated and 'bio' fuels ultimately ONLY EPDM/EPR will be suitable. Sometimes available is a compound called 'Santoprene' an elastic foam that has equivalent chemical resistivity to EPDM. To make such gasket material 'work' youll need to add a flange to the tank ... by making a flange/sister-flange with studs and a handhole cover plate .... all bolted together with a 'gasket' between to make the 'seal'. For all of the above see if you can get such material somewhere near 45 or 50 durometer (a measurement of the softness/pliability) if possible, the 'usual' is 70 durometer which may be difficult compress to make it 'seal'. Nothing will 'stick' to Polyethylene (its too 'waxy') ... not Permatex, not 5200, not epoxy, not paint. not 'joint compound', not grape jelly, etc. ...... NOTHNG!!! To seal PE you have to use a soft gasket. ;-)
Joe...
I was the one that put the SeaBuilt access port in my H34's fuel tank. I think it would be a big mistake, as cited by others on the list, to use the Beckson port. Getting it past a surveyor or the Coast Guard in a safety inspection may be a problem, and I'll bet your insurer will have a coniption. Play it safe, spend the money, and have peace of mind. We had a diesel powerboat burn to the water line up in North East last year because of a fuel issue. It CAN happen with diesel. Don't become a statistic too.
I was the one that put the SeaBuilt access port in my H34's fuel tank. I think it would be a big mistake, as cited by others on the list, to use the Beckson port. Getting it past a surveyor or the Coast Guard in a safety inspection may be a problem, and I'll bet your insurer will have a coniption. Play it safe, spend the money, and have peace of mind. We had a diesel powerboat burn to the water line up in North East last year because of a fuel issue. It CAN happen with diesel. Don't become a statistic too.
Mechanical seal
You will need to make a mechanical seal - hardware and a gasket. Automotive cork gasket material will work. Why not just use a piece of aluminum plate? I would use a nutsert tool and make a dozen threaded holes around the perimeter of the cut out area, cut an aluminum plate drill to match the new nutsert holes cut a gasket to cover the whole plate and use stainless screws with washers and lock washers Screw cover into place. I would want the screws to be no further apart than 1.5" and about 1/2" in from edge. I'd use 5/16 - 32 screws. jim
You will need to make a mechanical seal - hardware and a gasket. Automotive cork gasket material will work. Why not just use a piece of aluminum plate? I would use a nutsert tool and make a dozen threaded holes around the perimeter of the cut out area, cut an aluminum plate drill to match the new nutsert holes cut a gasket to cover the whole plate and use stainless screws with washers and lock washers Screw cover into place. I would want the screws to be no further apart than 1.5" and about 1/2" in from edge. I'd use 5/16 - 32 screws. jim
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