I am about to go to survey and sea trials on a 1977 csy 44 with a crosby refrigeration system. To the best of my knowledge this is an original system. I have been told by the broker that all it needs to be functional is a "shot" of refrigerant. Based on the year what type refrigerant was used (R-12?). According to EPA guidelines 134-A is what is to be used currently. Can I still obtain the refrigerant for this unit (one plate for refrigeration and two plates for freezer)? Where could I find manuals and replacement parts? Thank you in advance for your assistance.
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Phil Williams
Crosby
The unit was designed to work with R-12. I am not sure if you will be able to find anyone to recharge with this gas. If you can it will be costly. The system is an engine driven unit and the hoses that connect the compressor to the condenser are most likely going to need to be replaced if they have not been replaced within the past several years. The trouble is the hoses will dry out and crack and allow the refrigerant to leak out. They are special hoses made by Aeroquip, designed for refrigerant gases. Your best bet is to have a refrigeration mechanic check out the system to see what needs to be done to bring it up to working condition. Most surveyors are not familiar with this type of equipment and they do not have the tools required to do a proper system inspection. The manuals can be orderd through WAECO Adler/Barbour at 860-664-4911. Tell them you want a copy of the original book Marine Refrigeration Guide Book by Howard Crosby. They should have photo copies in their files. Good luck with the unit. Once it is working properly you will only need to run your engine 45 minutes a day to keep the freezer frozen and the refrigerator cold. It is the best system ever built for a box that large. Your box is 21 cubic feet, split into three sections, forward section is refrigerator, center section is refrigerator and aft section is freezer.
The unit was designed to work with R-12. I am not sure if you will be able to find anyone to recharge with this gas. If you can it will be costly. The system is an engine driven unit and the hoses that connect the compressor to the condenser are most likely going to need to be replaced if they have not been replaced within the past several years. The trouble is the hoses will dry out and crack and allow the refrigerant to leak out. They are special hoses made by Aeroquip, designed for refrigerant gases. Your best bet is to have a refrigeration mechanic check out the system to see what needs to be done to bring it up to working condition. Most surveyors are not familiar with this type of equipment and they do not have the tools required to do a proper system inspection. The manuals can be orderd through WAECO Adler/Barbour at 860-664-4911. Tell them you want a copy of the original book Marine Refrigeration Guide Book by Howard Crosby. They should have photo copies in their files. Good luck with the unit. Once it is working properly you will only need to run your engine 45 minutes a day to keep the freezer frozen and the refrigerator cold. It is the best system ever built for a box that large. Your box is 21 cubic feet, split into three sections, forward section is refrigerator, center section is refrigerator and aft section is freezer.
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Paul Mieszczenski
Find an old A/C guy
John, The Norcold on my '85 O'28 was slowly dying due to low refridgerent, and the company rep said that it was all over due to the fact that R-134 eats the seals of the older units and besides that it was a factory sealed unit and could not be fixed. Just about the time I was ready to bite the bullet for a new unit I met, purely by chance, a gentelman who had been in the A/C business all his life. I told him my problem and he said he could fix it. The next week he stopped by the boat, silver soldered a valve in place, charged me up with a compatible replacement for R-12, and she's back to freezeing things up next to the plate. You need to find a guy like that in your area. There is stuff out there that will work in place of R-12. Good luck, PM
John, The Norcold on my '85 O'28 was slowly dying due to low refridgerent, and the company rep said that it was all over due to the fact that R-134 eats the seals of the older units and besides that it was a factory sealed unit and could not be fixed. Just about the time I was ready to bite the bullet for a new unit I met, purely by chance, a gentelman who had been in the A/C business all his life. I told him my problem and he said he could fix it. The next week he stopped by the boat, silver soldered a valve in place, charged me up with a compatible replacement for R-12, and she's back to freezeing things up next to the plate. You need to find a guy like that in your area. There is stuff out there that will work in place of R-12. Good luck, PM
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Bill Sheehy
Try 404
When I replaced the R-12 in my system I used 404a. It works great now. I also recharged a guys Alder Barber system with 414. I had to braze a charging value in to the line before charging. Most people don't want to come down to your boat to repair your systemas there's no money in it.
When I replaced the R-12 in my system I used 404a. It works great now. I also recharged a guys Alder Barber system with 414. I had to braze a charging value in to the line before charging. Most people don't want to come down to your boat to repair your systemas there's no money in it.
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Richard
Expensive Repairs
Compressor Manufacturers and the EPA do not recognize that there are expectable Drop in refrigerants to replace Freon R12. Drop in replacement means, no other changes are required. It is true that almost any refrigerant may work for a short time but they can also destroy a good system. The manufacturer’s specification that I checked on 404 say that, R404 is not miscible with existing lubricants used in R12 or R502 systems. The mineral oil will need to be replaced with Polyol Ester (POE) with the residual mineral oil less than 5%.
Compressor Manufacturers and the EPA do not recognize that there are expectable Drop in refrigerants to replace Freon R12. Drop in replacement means, no other changes are required. It is true that almost any refrigerant may work for a short time but they can also destroy a good system. The manufacturer’s specification that I checked on 404 say that, R404 is not miscible with existing lubricants used in R12 or R502 systems. The mineral oil will need to be replaced with Polyol Ester (POE) with the residual mineral oil less than 5%.
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Rick Webb
Is R-12 Not Available at All?
I think I still have a couple of cans from when a guy could still buy it and use it.
I think I still have a couple of cans from when a guy could still buy it and use it.
R-12 is available but expensive.
R-12 is available but is very expensive. We have a couple of automobiles with R12 and it costs more for the stuff (now sold by the ounce). If you need a full charge, you may want to consider an upgrade to the system and switch to a newer coolant formula. If you happen to be going offshore, they still sell it in the rest of the world (what is wrong with this picture).
R-12 is available but is very expensive. We have a couple of automobiles with R12 and it costs more for the stuff (now sold by the ounce). If you need a full charge, you may want to consider an upgrade to the system and switch to a newer coolant formula. If you happen to be going offshore, they still sell it in the rest of the world (what is wrong with this picture).
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BR CYR
REPLACEMENT
The only good recognized replacement for R12 without having to change oil is R409.It has good cooling properties. The pressures run a little higher than R12 but will not damage any rubber or other components. It is readily available and much cheaper. It's 48% R22, whose phase out has been moved up by the government (just a little info tidbit).
The only good recognized replacement for R12 without having to change oil is R409.It has good cooling properties. The pressures run a little higher than R12 but will not damage any rubber or other components. It is readily available and much cheaper. It's 48% R22, whose phase out has been moved up by the government (just a little info tidbit).
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Debra B
don't trust the broker on this one
I don't know your broker, but ... If it needs a "shot" then it probably has a leak. If the leak is in the compressor or in the evaporator ... The only way to tell would be to get a tech to do a leak check. On the other hand, the new compressors are MUCH more reliable and MUCH more efficient. On a 44 CSY, the box is probably large enough to warrant a 2-compressor system, but it would be a good investment.
I don't know your broker, but ... If it needs a "shot" then it probably has a leak. If the leak is in the compressor or in the evaporator ... The only way to tell would be to get a tech to do a leak check. On the other hand, the new compressors are MUCH more reliable and MUCH more efficient. On a 44 CSY, the box is probably large enough to warrant a 2-compressor system, but it would be a good investment.
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Richard
Refrigeration Restoreation
You are not going to find a new system that will out perform the one you have ounce the old system is repaired and if necessary upgraded. Crosby built several models all of which used standard off the shelf components. Visually inspect the system and email me a description of what you see or mail a set of pictures. I will then send you a step by step restoration process and no I don’t charge for this service or sell parts.
You are not going to find a new system that will out perform the one you have ounce the old system is repaired and if necessary upgraded. Crosby built several models all of which used standard off the shelf components. Visually inspect the system and email me a description of what you see or mail a set of pictures. I will then send you a step by step restoration process and no I don’t charge for this service or sell parts.
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