Credit card or wrench?

[Bob Camarena]

Mostly Wrench

I do most of my work myself. I have hired out the bottom job (especially the sanding and sometimes the painting) after I do the blister repairs and would hire out any major fiberglass repair or engine work. Also, I've hired out major canvas work like dodger replacement and sail covers. I'd probably only tackle minor sail repairs.Some of things I've done so far are:-VHF Installation-Replaced exhaust piping between engine and muffler-Replaced exhaust vent in transom-Replaced hot water heater-Autopilot installation-Rigid vang installation-Lead halyards aft, installed new cabin top winches-Rebuilt winches-Replaced interior uphoulstry (jointly with my wife)-Rebuilt head-Rebuilt one macerator, installed another-Installed new depth finder-Installed washdown pump-Applied vinyl boat name-Installed LPG stove, tank, locker, alarms, etc.-Replaced bilge pump-Routine engine maintenance

 

[dave]

credit card!!!!!

i defintly want it done right and my boat yard is excellent and i know the people

 

[Chris Mainka]

Total Refit

Wrench - oh yeah - I just pulled my 77 22ODAy and put it in storage for a total refit. Last weakend I removed the Bulkhead and bunks. I am not sure what wood I am going to use for the bulk head, Teak ply is a little pricey. For the bunks I am going with marine ply board and then I will paint them white. Lots to be done - I will try to get pictures and a progress report to yall.

 

[Sam Morris]

Hombre Solo

I'm on my fifth sailboat. On the first four I outsourced a lot of the work as I usually worked 70-80 hours a week. Since retiring three years ago I do as much as I can myself. I really enjoy working on my NA-40 (Hunter-40).Moreover, who can you trust to do as good job as you can do yourself, except for certain things that I find hard such as woodworking.I do all my aloft and underwater work. See the attached link. I have received a lot of good tips from the Hunter Owners' Forum! By the way, can anybody tell me where I can get a winch handle that will lock in place on a Maxwell Winch?

 

[Milton]

Know Thy Boat

I find it very gratifying to be able to repair almost any problem that we may have on our C-400 or any other boat. This being said, my motto is KNOW THY BOAT. It does not matter if you have a million dollar credit line with American Expressm if your boat is sinking in the middle of an ocean, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO CALL?? You had better know how to fix the problem or be a very good swimmer.

 

[Larry Watkins]

DIY or credit card

My Beneteau 40 is my sixth boat. I do most of the repair and maintenance myself, simply to keep costs down and to be familiar with the systems. The amount of maintenance time a boat needs is directly proportional to its size/complexity. (There is no worse sound than "Honey, the stove/water/reefer/stereo/TV/ doesn't work, fix it.") What I won't do is fiberglass work. I have hired an electrician and a mechanic when I was absolutely stumped to fix a problem, though. In my opinion, projects and improvements are the fun parts, and not to be confused with fixing broken/malfunctioning things.

 

[Danny Reid]

If you don't fix it you are no sailer.

If you cannot fix the systems on the boat how do you think you will ever be able to patch things up when sailing gets rough. Fixing systems and maintaining the boat builds skill that may save your life if not trip.

 

[Chris Hyland]

Danny

Danny, Just because someone makes the choice to pay doesn't mean they don't have the skills.It may mean they have the money, and wish to spend the little free time they have sailing the boat.Next time you see Dennis Connor spinning wrenches, let me know....I think saying if you don't fix it yourself your no sailor is a little over the top...Regards,Chris

 

[BILL ROBB]

A NECESSARY EVIL

When I decided to "move up" to an O'DAY 30 from my older O'DAY 25, I pretty much knew that I would have to continue to do the lions' share of the maintenence and repairs in order to be able to afford the bigger boat. It's a decision that I'm comfortable with ( so far! )since I know my boat better than many other boat owners know theirs.

 

[Peggie Hall/Head Mistress]

Chris, people like Dennis Connor

don't just pay the yard to do scheduled maintenance and fix what breaks...they have full-time professional captains and crews whose full-time jobs it is to keep an eye on every inch of their boats for them, find small problems and fix 'em before they become big ones, and supervise yard work. SOMEbody has to do that in order to maintain a boat as it needs to be maintained. So if you're in a position to hire somebody to do it, then you can afford to spend all your time aboard just sailing. But if you're not, you have to do it yourself.

 

[Mike Dobson]

Go get Dirty!

I usually enjoy work that is challenging and rewarding. I draw the line when it would come to rebuilding an engine I need by next month or shaving the bottom for a new bottom job.I consider those type of projects an over challenge, giving the work to dedicated experts. I however will never relinguish authority over any project to any yard. I consider myself yard management when it comes to those big awards to the yard and never hesitate to flex my authority after I research the project.Always insist on hard estimates before the work starts or don't allow the job to start! You are always the boss!

 

[Roger Mummah]

Do It Myself

We/I have done all of the maintenance on Endless Summer since we bought her (1993). The reason is simple-if it breaks while you're "out there" you gotta fix it!

 

[John Buckham]

Wrench.

Why pay when you can fix it yourself? Complete electrical rewire? Engine Overhaul? Standing Rigging? Life Lines? Plumbing? No problem. Bottom paint? Yuck. Checkbook.

 

[Chris Hyland]

I agree

Peggy, Danny's point was if you don't do the work, you’re not a real sailor. His other point was that boat owners should know how to repair their craft, and I agree.But capability is in my mind, or at least for me, is not a factor; I can fix anything on my boat. Time, and being able to use my boat are the primary concerns for me.I do the vast majority of maintenance on my boat because I can get it done without affecting my use. Much of the waxing, polishing, cleaning, and mechanical testing and checking, I can do while relaxing at a nice anchorage. It’s fun and I enjoy it.My Dennis Connor comment was an extreme example, as he is the consummate sailor. After all, isn’t having a hired captain and maintenance crew just a little bigger credit card bill? I would never suggest people just blindly have a marina maintain their boat. What I am saying is most people pick and choose the projects they feel comfortable with, or have time to do. If a project is going to take two days to complete during the season, I’ll pay.To me the use of the boat has value over and above money, so I want to get the use.Does it make me less of a sailor because I want to have the most possible time to use my boat? That seems to be a contradiction of terms.Regards,Chris

 

[Peggie Hall/Head Mistress]

Not exactly, Chris

"After all, isn’t having a hired captain and maintenance crew just a little bigger credit card bill?" Professional captains and crews (and btw, they aren't just maintenance crews, they're full-time crew) are full-time employees...some even live aboard. And they stay busy, 'cuz there's never a time that there isn't SOMEthing on a boat that needs attention...Has there ever been a single day on your own boat that you didn't have to make a choice between doing some job or taking her out for a sail...or do both? Imagine how much work there is to keep up with on a high-performance boat or a megayacht!You'd never suggest that anyone blindly let the yard maintain their boat...but that's just what some people do. I had an e-mail exchange last spring with someone who'd owned his boat for 3 years...the first weekend he was aboard after spring launch, the toilet wasn't bringing in any flush water....he e-mailed me to ask if it were possible that the yard had closed the seacock. I replied, "did you check to see whether it's open or not?" His repy: "I don't know where it is." That's downright scary! But although he's an extreme case, far too many boat owners don't have a clue how anything on their boat works, or how to fix ANYthing that breaks. Except for scheduled engine maintenance, the term "preventive maintenance" isn't even in their vocabulary...they call the yard when something breaks (and then complain about the cost). They may have bought their boats new, but failed to keep--or ever even look at--any of the equipment manuals that came with the boat (how many used boats have any of us bought that still have all the manuals? Not very many!). As I've read through this thread, it's been gratifying to see how many of the people here DO work on their own boats, but I still see too much of a "fix what breaks" approach to it and not enough attention to prevention. "Fix what breaks" is a VERY expensive way to maintain a boat. As Ben Franklin put it:"A little neglect may breed mischief…for want of a nail, the shoe was lost; for want of a shoe the horse was lost; and for want of a horse the rider was lost."Few sayings are truer when it comes to boats. The yard won't inspect your horse's shoes when they do other scheduled maintenance...they won't even check his other three feet when you call 'em to replace one shoe. If you only replace loose shoes, you're not gonna find any missing nails till another shoe falls off either. Horseshoes cost more than nails...and "vet bills" to cure the "lame horse" that wouldn't BE lame if you'd checked his feel regularly can be VERY expensive!And that's why the Dennis Connors of the world hire full time employees to maintain their boats...in long run, it's MUCH less expensive than just fixing what breaks.I'll get off my soapbox now...

 

[Tim Schaaf]

Amen, Peggie

Moreover, the better you get to know your boat, the less inclined you are to spend hours thinking of replacing it with something else , and the more you understand about your projects, the more fun you get out of doing them. Depending on the day and the wind, they can sometimes be even more satisfying than sailing.....heresy, but often true, and this comes from someone who loves to sail.By the way, Peggie, what is a "seacock"? JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Peggie Hall/Head Mistress]

Thanks, Tim

I'm pretty certain that a lof of people here just write me off as anal retentive about boat maintenance. But once I finally managed to cure all the problems previous owners' jury rig approach to "fix what breaks" on Solitaire--which took about a year, I never had a single nasty surprise in the remaining 5 years I owned her. It was their approach to maintenance that made her survey for even less than the $25k I paid for her when I bought her...and my "anal retentiveness" that resulted in a survey that valued her at $48,500 when I sold her. How's the weather in Cabo? ))

 

[proto57]

Give and take...

We put our O22 together from bits and pieces... a $200 hull, a $400 rig, a $250 trailer, and alot of "elbow grease". I enjoy making something from nothing... but I don't think there is an ethical issue, one way or the other, in hiring help for the project or not.It's a give and take... how much you enjoy doing the work, and how much money you have for the project. We built our first cruising boat from scratch, and enjoyed it. But it took 7 priceless months of my life! I didn't think the balance was worth it, for me.But fixing up an old fiberglass boat? Different story. The time/money/reward equation is about right for us. As long as one does not encounter a big blister project, the most neglected fiberglass boat is still pretty close to sail ready! And you can see several great abandoned boats just begging for ressurrection in just about every boatyard.If I was really loaded, I might just get a bigger fixer-upper, rather than pay others to fix it up... I just like it! Then I'd use my extra funds to keep the boat in a marina. To me, that is the big cost... the boat is cheap, the slip is expensive. Rich.

 

[Joe higgins]

If You Want Convenience - Take a Cruise Ship

Real sailors are pretty much self sufficient. They don't get tows and they don't sit in port waiting for parts on their air conditioning or weather fax machine. The lure of sailing is being one w/your environment and being free. One is not free if one is chained to high tech equipment that can, and eventually will, fail.

 

[Peggie Hall/Head Mistress]

I dunno about that, Rich...

"As long as one does not encounter a big blister project, the most neglected fiberglass boat is still pretty close to sail ready!"Unless you count seacocks that are frozen (and when they are, they're always open, never closed), rotted fuel and other hoses, a soft deck, stringer rot, transom rot, corroded and/or jury rigged wiring, winches that are beyond repair and those are just the first things that come to mind on a day sailor or cuddy. Add fresh water and sanitation plumbing, a galley, upholstery and a few of the creature comforts found on larger boats and you've got an expensive 5 year project to make her pristine again--at least a year, maybe longer depending on your available cash flow, just to get her back in the water...and the sad part is, at least 90% of it could have been prevented. Blisters on an old boat are the least of your worries on an older neglected fiberglass boat, 'cuz odds are it's already gotten all the blisters it'll ever get, so if the hull is sound, that's a project you can put off till you've done everything else. If the hull isn't sound, you don't want the boat anyway.My last boat was a "project" boat--fiberglass. She was a powerboat, so I didn't have to worry about sails and rigging...but only 1/6th of what I spent restoring her went into the engines and genset. So I've been there...I KNOW what it takes and what it costs to recover a boat from years of neglect.