ok, we bought a used Hunter 4 months ago. We had not added diesel or pumped out the hold tank but did today Filling the holding tank with water we thought would help clean her out so we toped off the holding tank... we thought. the caps were switched! We put 2 gal of fuel in the holding tank and pumped out the fuel 2 questions After I get the water out of teh fuel system.... whatelse do I need to do... What do I do with 5 gal of diesel / poop water? Capy Crappy Gas!
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Florida Mariner Magazine
Check the Fuel cleaning section of the FL Mariner, I have use Long Hose in the past. They can clean the tank. Ask them for advice on the holding tank mess. Did you buy from a Broker/dealer, if you did you could get them involved? How about your surveyor? Did he/she not notice the cap switch? Change fuel filters, and have spares available.
Check the Fuel cleaning section of the FL Mariner, I have use Long Hose in the past. They can clean the tank. Ask them for advice on the holding tank mess. Did you buy from a Broker/dealer, if you did you could get them involved? How about your surveyor? Did he/she not notice the cap switch? Change fuel filters, and have spares available.
Could be worse
At least you did not put poop in the fuel tank. Seriously, their are folks who do this sort of stuff. It happens more often than we care to admit. A less costly (and some would say illegal) way is to use it to kill your weeds. You own any property with a really bad fence row? Petroleum is great stuff for killing multi-flora rose which is a "pest" plant here on the east coast and the government does not care how you kill it just kill it. Getting it out of the tank might require the purchase of a pump or maybe you already have a mercerator which can be plumbed to a bucket. Before one of the tree huggers flames me the state of Maryland does condone the killing of innocent plants and does not even care about the sensibilities of how we do it. AND the natural occurrence of petroleum on the ground is quite common around low lying areas that have a lot of vegetation. Ever seen that oil sheen in a swamp and wonder how it got there? That is how mother nature (God to me) makes the stuff in the first place so a few gallons on some pest plants is not going to be the ecological disaster that some would have you believe it might be. Just don't pump it overboard as the water can't handle the concentration that the giant filter we call land can.
At least you did not put poop in the fuel tank. Seriously, their are folks who do this sort of stuff. It happens more often than we care to admit. A less costly (and some would say illegal) way is to use it to kill your weeds. You own any property with a really bad fence row? Petroleum is great stuff for killing multi-flora rose which is a "pest" plant here on the east coast and the government does not care how you kill it just kill it. Getting it out of the tank might require the purchase of a pump or maybe you already have a mercerator which can be plumbed to a bucket. Before one of the tree huggers flames me the state of Maryland does condone the killing of innocent plants and does not even care about the sensibilities of how we do it. AND the natural occurrence of petroleum on the ground is quite common around low lying areas that have a lot of vegetation. Ever seen that oil sheen in a swamp and wonder how it got there? That is how mother nature (God to me) makes the stuff in the first place so a few gallons on some pest plants is not going to be the ecological disaster that some would have you believe it might be. Just don't pump it overboard as the water can't handle the concentration that the giant filter we call land can.
One more thing
Don't smoke when you are doing this as it could get you involved in an operation that is common in the military in far off places where there are no sewers and the ground water is used for drinking called "burning the s--t". If you do have to smoke be sure to use a metal container and stir slowly with a long metal tool (rake). As an Army combat engineer I have done my share of this and let me tell you it is "THE" way to make it with the girls downtown. Happy New year everybody.
Don't smoke when you are doing this as it could get you involved in an operation that is common in the military in far off places where there are no sewers and the ground water is used for drinking called "burning the s--t". If you do have to smoke be sure to use a metal container and stir slowly with a long metal tool (rake). As an Army combat engineer I have done my share of this and let me tell you it is "THE" way to make it with the girls downtown. Happy New year everybody.
Follow-up
Update... Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Looks like the fuel was the top layer in the holding tank... no flotters! Used a hand bildge pump to take out 80% of the fuel in the holding tank. Going to get our boat doc to clear the fuel lines of water and get the yanmar restarted. This is way over my head and energy level So once we have her running again, we will sail out 10 mile and finish dumping what is in the holding tank and clean it with with lots of water and soap. Not sure if the guy that sold it to us did this to for a little payback for offering and getting a lower $$$ than he wanted or just a honest mistake but I am paying NOW! Someone asked how I found out what had happened... The yanmar has been faithful over the past 4-6 months.... always starting. After filling what we thought was the holding tank with clean water and then having it pumped out... (what really happened it we topped off the fuel tank with water and had it pumped out as if it were the holding tanks... leaving only water. After the fuel in the lines worked through, the only thing in the tank was the water we had added) and she stopped running. What could I have done to not be in this position.... Not assume that the caps are correct. The holding tank and fuel fills should have been a hint to me since the fill looked to be forward but I know the tank was aft. Thanks again for the feedback! L
Update... Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Looks like the fuel was the top layer in the holding tank... no flotters! Used a hand bildge pump to take out 80% of the fuel in the holding tank. Going to get our boat doc to clear the fuel lines of water and get the yanmar restarted. This is way over my head and energy level So once we have her running again, we will sail out 10 mile and finish dumping what is in the holding tank and clean it with with lots of water and soap. Not sure if the guy that sold it to us did this to for a little payback for offering and getting a lower $$$ than he wanted or just a honest mistake but I am paying NOW! Someone asked how I found out what had happened... The yanmar has been faithful over the past 4-6 months.... always starting. After filling what we thought was the holding tank with clean water and then having it pumped out... (what really happened it we topped off the fuel tank with water and had it pumped out as if it were the holding tanks... leaving only water. After the fuel in the lines worked through, the only thing in the tank was the water we had added) and she stopped running. What could I have done to not be in this position.... Not assume that the caps are correct. The holding tank and fuel fills should have been a hint to me since the fill looked to be forward but I know the tank was aft. Thanks again for the feedback! L
larry, i live here!
Please dont go off shore and dump that mess. pump it out and clean it at the dock and have the suff hauled away legally. we dont need more mess in the gulf so it can drift back in and to the beach or get our sea birds coated with oil! dumping offshore is no a solution that is acceptable!
Please dont go off shore and dump that mess. pump it out and clean it at the dock and have the suff hauled away legally. we dont need more mess in the gulf so it can drift back in and to the beach or get our sea birds coated with oil! dumping offshore is no a solution that is acceptable!
Pump it
I agree that dumping is not the best solution. If you have indeed managed to remove 80% of the fuel from the holding tank, I don't think the sewage treatment system will have a problem dealing with what is left. I'd just go to the pump-out and clean the tank there. After all, you already pumped fuel into the waste treatment system. Another .4 gallon is not going to be the end of the world. Your experience makes a good case for labeling the deck fittings rather than the caps. It also makes a good case for physically different dimensions for waste, water, and fuel through deck fittings.
I agree that dumping is not the best solution. If you have indeed managed to remove 80% of the fuel from the holding tank, I don't think the sewage treatment system will have a problem dealing with what is left. I'd just go to the pump-out and clean the tank there. After all, you already pumped fuel into the waste treatment system. Another .4 gallon is not going to be the end of the world. Your experience makes a good case for labeling the deck fittings rather than the caps. It also makes a good case for physically different dimensions for waste, water, and fuel through deck fittings.
pump it into a 5 gallon bucket
and let it separate. the diesel will float on top of the waste. then you can pour off the diesel and take it to whereever you take your engine drain oil. Waste water plants do not like hydrocarbons, especially flammable ones.
and let it separate. the diesel will float on top of the waste. then you can pour off the diesel and take it to whereever you take your engine drain oil. Waste water plants do not like hydrocarbons, especially flammable ones.
Not to argue...
True, hauling it off to a waste oil centre would be a better choice. but ...
In the greater grander scheme of things, I doubt that the waste treatment plant would even notice 1 or 2 gallons of fuel in the system. A system of any size has to cope with small amounts of hydrocarbons on a daily basis. I think the waste system is better able to deal with fuel than the oil recycler is able to deal with sh*t. I think there is a greater risk of a spill during the siphon, bottle, transport, and empty phases of getting the fuel out of the tank and into the waste oil system than there is of environmental damage from a couple of gallons of fuel in the waste treatment stream. Could be wrong, but that's the call I'd make.
True, hauling it off to a waste oil centre would be a better choice. but ...
In the greater grander scheme of things, I doubt that the waste treatment plant would even notice 1 or 2 gallons of fuel in the system. A system of any size has to cope with small amounts of hydrocarbons on a daily basis. I think the waste system is better able to deal with fuel than the oil recycler is able to deal with sh*t. I think there is a greater risk of a spill during the siphon, bottle, transport, and empty phases of getting the fuel out of the tank and into the waste oil system than there is of environmental damage from a couple of gallons of fuel in the waste treatment stream. Could be wrong, but that's the call I'd make.
I know, dump it on your lawn
It's amazing how people can rationalize passing the problem on to someone else.
It's amazing how people can rationalize passing the problem on to someone else.
Whoa!
Rationalize? Hey, I said that taking to a waste oil centre was a better choice. I agreed with you. I also have some experience with hazardous waste handling. IMO the chances of untreated hydrocarbon waste getting into the environment during separation, transport, and disposal from a boat to a waste oil centre are higher than if it was to go into the waste water treatment system directly from the boat. If you consider the cooking oils and fats that get into the waste water system plus the hydrocarbons from washing soiled rags and work cloths, 2 gallons of diesel fuel is not the end of the world. If you can guarantee that no fuel will be spilled during the transfer operation (look at the oil dump at *your* marina), then fine, take it away. If the waste oil handling at your marina is anything like the marina's I've seen, there are gallons of oil and or fuel that never make it to be treated. They leech directly into the ground water and then the sea. The other concern is introducing biological waste into a system that was not designed to handle it. One system has provisions for dealing with hydrocarbons, the other system has no provisions for dealing with biologicals. What is lessor evil?
Rationalize? Hey, I said that taking to a waste oil centre was a better choice. I agreed with you. I also have some experience with hazardous waste handling. IMO the chances of untreated hydrocarbon waste getting into the environment during separation, transport, and disposal from a boat to a waste oil centre are higher than if it was to go into the waste water treatment system directly from the boat. If you consider the cooking oils and fats that get into the waste water system plus the hydrocarbons from washing soiled rags and work cloths, 2 gallons of diesel fuel is not the end of the world. If you can guarantee that no fuel will be spilled during the transfer operation (look at the oil dump at *your* marina), then fine, take it away. If the waste oil handling at your marina is anything like the marina's I've seen, there are gallons of oil and or fuel that never make it to be treated. They leech directly into the ground water and then the sea. The other concern is introducing biological waste into a system that was not designed to handle it. One system has provisions for dealing with hydrocarbons, the other system has no provisions for dealing with biologicals. What is lessor evil?
Diesel fuel in the sanitary waste disposal system
The oils in wastewater systems are mostly "edible" (biodegradable) oils. Most wastewater treatment plants (WWTPs) can handle only a limited concentration of these oils, which is why restaurants have grease separators. The volume of petroleum-based oil in the wastewater stream from laundering greasy clothing is much smaller. In addition, inedible oils have been treated and dispersed using a detergent or other agent. Granted, two gallons of diesel fuel is a drop in the bucket for most municipal WWTPs, which treat millions of gallons of wastewater each day. However, the two gallons of diesel would probbaly be added in one shot. Furthermore, not all marinas are served by a large WWTP. Many marinas have only small "package" plants or anaerobic ("septic") systems that treat far smaller volumes and may be affected by diesel fuel. I'd discuss the situation with the dockmaster first. Since the fuel is already semi-contained, I'd pump it into some kind of oil-water separator to recover as much of it as possible rather than disperse it more widely. Peter H23 "Raven"
The oils in wastewater systems are mostly "edible" (biodegradable) oils. Most wastewater treatment plants (WWTPs) can handle only a limited concentration of these oils, which is why restaurants have grease separators. The volume of petroleum-based oil in the wastewater stream from laundering greasy clothing is much smaller. In addition, inedible oils have been treated and dispersed using a detergent or other agent. Granted, two gallons of diesel fuel is a drop in the bucket for most municipal WWTPs, which treat millions of gallons of wastewater each day. However, the two gallons of diesel would probbaly be added in one shot. Furthermore, not all marinas are served by a large WWTP. Many marinas have only small "package" plants or anaerobic ("septic") systems that treat far smaller volumes and may be affected by diesel fuel. I'd discuss the situation with the dockmaster first. Since the fuel is already semi-contained, I'd pump it into some kind of oil-water separator to recover as much of it as possible rather than disperse it more widely. Peter H23 "Raven"
Moody
I have a little experience with waste water treatment plants. I am the operations manager at a ski area that has a 50,000 gallon a day Aeromod WWTP. I can tell you that 2 gallons of diesel will wreak havoc with the biomass that treats the incoming solids resulting in the plant to go out of compliance for a considerable length of time and possibly killing it outright, necessatating a complete reseeding and restart of the plant. The point I'm trying to make is it's worth the time and effort to do it the right way. I don't see that its that dangerous to get the stuff in a bucket and seperate it.
I have a little experience with waste water treatment plants. I am the operations manager at a ski area that has a 50,000 gallon a day Aeromod WWTP. I can tell you that 2 gallons of diesel will wreak havoc with the biomass that treats the incoming solids resulting in the plant to go out of compliance for a considerable length of time and possibly killing it outright, necessatating a complete reseeding and restart of the plant. The point I'm trying to make is it's worth the time and effort to do it the right way. I don't see that its that dangerous to get the stuff in a bucket and seperate it.
Take it to an Auto Oil Change shop
A five gallon bucket of this stuff, especially mixed with sanitary water is no big deal. If it were me I would take the stuff to an auto oil change shop and let them pour it down into their tank. They heat the stuff anyways when it goes for recycling. Its "petroleum contaminated water" and not classified as a "hazardous waste". When we responded to pipeline spills and releases in the hundreds of gallons, the stuff would degrade over a short period of time on the surface to what is referred to as "pudding". It will dry, cake and crack and take on a dark brown appearance. Your talking a small quantity here and I agree, keep it away from the water, WWTP influent and off the neighbors yard. Bob
A five gallon bucket of this stuff, especially mixed with sanitary water is no big deal. If it were me I would take the stuff to an auto oil change shop and let them pour it down into their tank. They heat the stuff anyways when it goes for recycling. Its "petroleum contaminated water" and not classified as a "hazardous waste". When we responded to pipeline spills and releases in the hundreds of gallons, the stuff would degrade over a short period of time on the surface to what is referred to as "pudding". It will dry, cake and crack and take on a dark brown appearance. Your talking a small quantity here and I agree, keep it away from the water, WWTP influent and off the neighbors yard. Bob
Fair Enough
I stand corrected. I never thought about the pump out not being attached to a large municipal waste treatment system. Obviously the impact of a couple of gallons of diesel will depend on the size of the system that it is introduced to. I'll also offer that a well designed treatment system should not be brought to it's knees by someone accidentally putting a couple of gallons of HC into the system. In a perfect world no one would ever launder oil soaked rags or clothing and cooking oil would never get poured down the sink. In the real world these things happen on a regular basis. Treatment system designers must have taken this into consideration. There are organisms that feed on HC that get used to remove HC from contaminated soil, surely some provision is made for separating or treating small ammounts of HC in the waste water stream? It is also a fact that more than 2 gallons of HC gets washed of the roads and into the drains every time it rains. It is not right, I don't think it is good for the planet, but it does happen. How many cities process water from the storm drains? Would a system that processes water in the strom drains even notice the extra fuel? Like I said before, although not an ideal solution, putting the 20% of 2 gallons (less than two quarts) that remain in the holding tank into the waste treatment system shouldn't be a disaster. However, if 51.2 ounces of diesel fuel in the waste system is enough to kill the system, I differ to those that have that information at hand. For a real wake up call, if the pumpout is in Victoria BC Canada, it will get pumped untreated into the sea anyway.
I stand corrected. I never thought about the pump out not being attached to a large municipal waste treatment system. Obviously the impact of a couple of gallons of diesel will depend on the size of the system that it is introduced to. I'll also offer that a well designed treatment system should not be brought to it's knees by someone accidentally putting a couple of gallons of HC into the system. In a perfect world no one would ever launder oil soaked rags or clothing and cooking oil would never get poured down the sink. In the real world these things happen on a regular basis. Treatment system designers must have taken this into consideration. There are organisms that feed on HC that get used to remove HC from contaminated soil, surely some provision is made for separating or treating small ammounts of HC in the waste water stream? It is also a fact that more than 2 gallons of HC gets washed of the roads and into the drains every time it rains. It is not right, I don't think it is good for the planet, but it does happen. How many cities process water from the storm drains? Would a system that processes water in the strom drains even notice the extra fuel? Like I said before, although not an ideal solution, putting the 20% of 2 gallons (less than two quarts) that remain in the holding tank into the waste treatment system shouldn't be a disaster. However, if 51.2 ounces of diesel fuel in the waste system is enough to kill the system, I differ to those that have that information at hand. For a real wake up call, if the pumpout is in Victoria BC Canada, it will get pumped untreated into the sea anyway.
Still?!
"For a real wake up call, if the pumpout is in Victoria BC Canada, it will get pumped untreated into the sea anyway." I thought our Washington State bureaucratic scandalous reaction to learning of that untreated discharge would have caused our friends to the north to re-assess the error of their ways! So what if they've been doing it since the city started with no adverse environmental effect? The 'sewer plant' special interests must be going nuts! Happy New Year!
"For a real wake up call, if the pumpout is in Victoria BC Canada, it will get pumped untreated into the sea anyway." I thought our Washington State bureaucratic scandalous reaction to learning of that untreated discharge would have caused our friends to the north to re-assess the error of their ways! So what if they've been doing it since the city started with no adverse environmental effect? The 'sewer plant' special interests must be going nuts! Happy New Year!
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