Cracked and Leaking...

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Nov 14, 2011
16
Catalina C36 MK1 Kema, Texas
Ok, this is not good.

I would like to solicit some feedback from some people that a have more experience than I with a critical leaking part.

Basically, the shaft log is cracking and developed a slight leak.

Atttached are some pics:

Not sure why this is leaking now; however it is. But there is a slight weep present in the cracks.

No crazy or wierd vibration present.

Any input as far as reparing this would be very appreciated.

Here are my questions:
-Would it be possible to eliminate the fiberglass log and convert to a broze through hull bracket?
-Has anyone done this?
-Has anyone seen a tutorial on how to repair this?

I have been doing research, but all I see are descriptions - vague descriptions at that.

Any help would be very-much appreciated!

Thanks, All!
 

Attachments

Apr 18, 2007
53
Jeanneau Sun Oddysey 40.3 Chicago, IL, USA
It's hard to tell from the pics, but is the rubber hose that holds the stuffing box extending down into the white stuff that's cracked?

It sure looks to me like a previous owner had some leakage from further back and 'solved' it by smothering the end of the log in something - maybe fiberglass, but it sure looks like some kind of caulk or putty to me.

That 'fix' is now cracking and leaking, probably for the same reason the original leak started. I'd say you're going to have to haul and hack the white stuff out to see what's underneath it. Just guessing, but I'd think that the through-hull tube (that the rubber hose that carries the stuffing box is clamped to) is probably cracked or loose somehow.

Is there a shaft strut further back or does the stuffing box carry the cutlass bearing also? Hopefully there's a strut, but it's worth asking...

You'll almost certainly need to pull the shaft to correct this properly. Only you can decide whether the boat is worth that effort and expense.

I'm not going to tell you to clean it up and seal it again, but that is clearly one option. If you take that tack, I hope you don't go far from a good pump LOL!
 
Nov 14, 2011
16
Catalina C36 MK1 Kema, Texas
Marty,

Thanks for the response.
You're right. It does look like a PO did a patch job.

The boat is definitely worth saving and
the strut is externally mounted.

I believe that underneath the white goo is the rest of the hose and the shaft log.

The proper thing is to lift the boat, cut that crap out, and reglass a new shaft log in or convert it to a bronze through hull.

I guess the prop shaft and rudder have to be pulled out?

I wonder how many hours would it take to perform the work?

What are your thoughts?
 
Apr 18, 2007
53
Jeanneau Sun Oddysey 40.3 Chicago, IL, USA
MitchMan, sorry I didn't get back more quickly.

First, I'm not a professional repair guy - just setting expectations - so anything I'm saying here is a swag, but like most of the readers here I've had to struggle with my own 'old boat' challenges.

So, yes, I think we both agree that the 'white stuff' was added by the PO and covers some more serious problem.

To repair you'd need to do the following
1. Remove shaft. This implies removing the engine coupling (can be difficult!) and probably removing the prop. If you take off the prop you'll likely be able to swing it to the side enough to not have to drop the rudder, but I don't know Catalinas well enough to say that for sure.

2. Chip out the 'white stuff'. The issue here is going to be access. In my old Gulfstar 37 I could only get to this area when I was curled up in a cockpit locker. Hopefully your access is better, but think about what tools you'll need and how you'll get two hands in place to use them.

3. Remove and replace the stern tube - this is likely damaged already (what the PO was trying to repair) but chipping out the white stuff will almost certainly damage it fatally. Removing that brass tube (hopefully what it is) will not be a trivial task. You should be able to look at the exterior end of the tube to see what it is - I'm worried that's it galvanized iron pipe and it's rusted in the hull, causing the leak. Other Catalina owner can certainly comment on this before you pull the boat.

So now, how long? First, my experience with my own estimates are that I'm regularly at least 1/2 too low, so I'd add something onto what I say below. Given that it's a boat (and an older one) you'll want to adjust for what you already may know that I don't.

1. Remove shaft - if everything pops apart easily then this is a few hours work. If the prop or coupling is frozen onto the shaft then it'll be alot more. Again, on my 37 I never got the prop off - too many years in salt water without proper maintenance. If it doesn't come easily I'd consider paying a boatyard for this since they have tools and experience you don't have and if they mess something up (bend the shaft or the prop) then they have some responsibility to make it right. So I'd say plan two days of part-time effort, maybe one day if you have the right tools and parts, etc.

2. Remove old white stuff - this depends completely on what it is. If it's fiberglass and resin/epoxy then you almost have to cut/grind it out - it won't chip away. If it's hardened putty or caulk you may be able to chip or shave it away with an air or electric chisel. You won't be able to get it all until the old stern tube is removed, but you'll be cleaning up the area to prep for the new repair. Access to the area also colors this estimate, but I'd guess you could easily spend a couple of days on this as well, more if it's difficult to access.

3. Replace stern tube - once you have the area clean and prepped you're down to the easy part. I'd get the right brass (?) tube and make sure it fits into the hole in the hull with a small bit of play. Flare the hole on both ends quite a bit (maybe more than you think) to allow the new fiberglass/epoxy some good surface to bond to. The hull should be quite thick here (several inches?) so don't worry too much about structural integrity unless there's existing cracks (which would be a whole other problem). Apply caulk to the stern tube and the inside of the hole and slide the tube in so that the center part of the tube is bedded in caulk. I'd do this from the inside so the other end of the tube can be cleaned - easier to clean it up outside. Slide the shaft back in place securely (can be done before sliding the new tube in) and use wedges to center the tube in the hole, then glass it in. I'd use a small amount of epoxy and shredded fiberglass to fill the very bottom of the flare, then build up layers of cloth and epoxy until it's fair with the hull. This will be very hard inside - you'll be stuffing it in with your fingers and/or a stick under the tube. But as said above, this won't be structurally important so you should be OK. Once it's all hardened up you just (JUST! LOL) need to reassemble. Because the 'glassing has to happen in one shot, I'd plan two days for this - one day to line everything up and get ready, maybe place the tube and shaft, then one day for the glass work. Probably a third day for reassembly.

While you're doing this you should also replace the cutlass bearing in the strut - it will almost certainly need it, and that can be a day or two itself, depending on how difficult the old one is to get out.

So in total, with my estimate, you're looking at a week of full days, if you're doing it on weekends/evening only it'll be longer. A yard may be able to do it more quickly, but you'll need to trust/review their work.

I'm sure others in the forum can add/correct alot of this. Also make sure the shaft is REALLY checked for runout/burning/groove while it's out - be a shame to do all this and still have the stuffing box leak.

Hope this helps...

Marty
 
Jun 3, 2004
71
Catalina 400 MkII Noank, CT
C36IA.com

Mitch,
You REALLY should go to c36ia.com and post your question there. There are hundreds of owners who know your boat inside and out. In fact, if you join C36IA, you will gain access to the technical section of the website.
http://www.c36ia.com/node/974
You can see pictures of what the shaft log should look like. There is no steel, brass, or bronze in the shaft log. The shaft log is simply a fiberglass tube glassed into the hull. It should stick into the engine compartment about 2", and the black hose is double clamped onto it. The stuffing box is then double clamped to the other end of the black hose. It appears the PO was far less than competant. The hose and stuffing box should move with the shaft (absorbing the vibrations of the engine), and NOT be glassed or caulked in place. As Marty stated, you will most likely have to pull the shaft to fix it. It can be done without dropping the rudder, but you will have to remove the prop and cutless bearing to get the shaft past the rudder. Most likely a good time to replace the cutless bearing, too. The hardest part will be getting the flange off the inboard end of the shaft. You might have to cut the shaft and replace it. Repairing the shaft log should entail a bit of glass work, but it is not that complicated. You should definitely replace the hose. It's way past its life expectancy. While you are at it, you should repack the stuffing box with goretex stuffing, instead of flax. Hope this helps. (former C36 owner for 18 yrs)
 
Nov 14, 2011
16
Catalina C36 MK1 Kema, Texas
Guys:

Appreciate the feedback. This is good stuff.
@ Marty- thanks for the overview. It's pretty much what I anticipated, sadly!
Lol...
@ Tom- thanks; I will post over at c36ia...to see what feedback I get.

Thanks, as usual, Stu.

My hope is to salvage the existing tube, and, perhaps, reinforce/buttress it. Fingers crossed here...but first to get to it.

It you look in one of the pictures, I believe shaft orientation may be the culprit here. There seems I be a extreme angle difference between the prop shaft and the packing gland. I am wondering if that is not responsible for the cracking.

I'm going to start with the motor mounts first and knock this out and get a preliminary alignment. If the angle of the shaft is changed relative to the packing gland then I may have a bead on what caused the cracking

I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks!
 
Apr 18, 2007
53
Jeanneau Sun Oddysey 40.3 Chicago, IL, USA
Thanks for the feedback, Mitch and others. I rarely post on this site but something drew me to this item.

And thanks for pointing out that the tube is fiberglass - that's good in some ways (possibly repairable) but bad in others (hard to replace if unrepairable).

And Mitch, yes, engine alignment could definitely be part of the issue. Good luck in getting everything to be in the right place!

Marty
 
Jun 3, 2004
71
Catalina 400 MkII Noank, CT
Mitch,
If you suspect the shaft alignment, there is a relatively easy way to check. Disconnect the 4 bolts holding the two halves of the flange together. Move the shaft back 1/4" or so. Wiggle the shaft around in the packing gland, and let it center itself. Compare where it comes to rest vs. the flange on the tranny. If they are not really close, then the engine needs to be re-aligned. If your boat is on the hard, you can also check to make sure the shaft is in the middle of the shaft log/tube. When buying my C36, the surveyor noticed that the strut was cracked. Further investigation revealed that the shaft was resting on the bottom of the shaft tube, and the four engine mounts were all bottomed out. The PO had probably NEVER checked the alignment or engine mounts.
 
Nov 14, 2011
16
Catalina C36 MK1 Kema, Texas
Tom/Guys:

Did the shaft alignment procedure described above.
It's WAY off. About 1/8" gap at the bottom.
The motor is way too high in the front.

That would, at least, partially explain the shaft angle.

If I wiggle the shaft to get the correct angle relative to the shaft log, it going to be unbelievably off: 3/8" or so I'm betting

I'm am not kidding.

The motor mounts are in stock here in town. So I need to pick those up.
I wonder if they disassemble to aid in ease of installation?

I'm sticking to the factory kind made by Bushings Inc. they seem to match the current ones identically. I don't want anymore headaches than necessary.

Raising the motor via the deflated basket-ball method seems like a great idea as someone else described.

Just wondering if the wiring and plumbing, will have to be disconnected to raise the motor enough for the new mounts to clear?

-Mitch
 
Nov 14, 2011
16
Catalina C36 MK1 Kema, Texas
Here's an update on this project:

Pulled the boat out of the water, and I can't get the coupling off - it is absolutely frozen to the shaft. tried PB Blaster, heat, and varioous pullers to no avail.

Looks like the shaft has eaten through the shaft log at the bottom due to IMPROPER engine alignment.

Can't stress this enough. If your boat has vibration at all RPM levels while under way, CHECK your enging/shaft alighment. .001 is great. Maximum is .003.

If you replace the motor mounts, this must be done! Your boat will be silky smooth if it is in tolerance.
END of RANT...

May have to cut the shaft off if a pro can't get the couping off. Have people really not heard of anti-seize? #%$%@!

Question: How does one press the strut in while the shaft is in place?

Any home-made presses out there?
 
Jun 3, 2004
71
Catalina 400 MkII Noank, CT
C36ia......

Mitch,
C36/375IA has a cutless bearing puller that you can borrow as a Member. You only have to pay for shipping. It's designed to press out the old cutless bearing, and press in the new one. You do not have to remove the rudder. Once the cutless bearing is out, the shaft can be removed (or a new one installed) without removing the rudder. Once the cutless bearing is in, the rudder will have to be dropped to install a new shaft. Membership has its rewards! Hope this helps.
 
Nov 14, 2011
16
Catalina C36 MK1 Kema, Texas
Tom:

Thanks!

I am a member. Joined over the weekend (3 year). I do need to get my hands on the press.

Also, I will take some pics detailing the repair.

This seems to be an obscure topic. I couldn't find a lot of info on this issue.

Even parts were hard to find. I had to beg Catalina to sell me a shaft log, finally they did.
They didn't have the shaft-log hose in stock either. Nor a packing gland!

Now they've got 'em up on they're website!

Maybe this will help others in the future of they don't stay on top of the propeller shaft/engine alignment maintenance.

-Mitch
 
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