Covid-19 Vaccination

[Terry Cox]

Okay Terry, inquiring minds have to know why.

Hi Phil. Never had a flu shot and no plan to ever get one. Ditto the COVID-19 flu shot for many of the reasons given on this thread. If I thought I needed one due to morbidity issues, of which I have none, perhaps. Just so many unknowns about the vaccine. Also other reasons that would prefer to keep private.

 

[Justin_NSA]

To each his own. I would think that headaches and soreness don't even get reported

 

[dlochner]

This is CDC VAERS data not mine; there have been over 2000 adverse effects reported from the MODERNA vaccine and almost 8000 reported on the PFIZER-BIONTECH vaccine. This may or not be relevant to you but it still makes me want to wait. And it has only been a few weeks. YMMV

If anyone is interested, the CDC Data is accessible to the public in an easy to search data base at : VAERS - Data

I only looked at the Moderna vaccine as that is the one I got. As of last Friday (the data is updated on Fridays) there were indeed 2,027 incidents reported of adverse reactions. One of the most common (11%) was injection site pain, well duh, stick a needle in your body, its gonna hurt.

10K incidents of adverse reactions across 25 million doses is a pretty insignificant number. A recent article in the Houston Chronicle reported

That means 0.004% of the vaccines administered in Texas in 2020 resulted in a serious event reported to the CDC.

Looking at the types of adverse reactions, many of them are based on the patient's perception, headache, chills, fatigue, injection site pain, etc. I don't doubt the patients' reports, however, we have no controlled studies nor independent scientific verification of those perceptions, i.e., did the reaction have a physiological basis attributable to the vaccine or some other physiological cause or was it psychogenic? The data is important, however, is it simply correlational at best. And we all know (or should know) that correlation does not imply causation.

In a quick search on this topic, I did find one article (on the first search results page) that was a thinly veiled doom and gloom article about the ill effects of the vaccine. In a quick read of the article it referenced as a source the The Epoch Times. For those not familiar with the Epoch Times, it is a far right publication associated with the Fulan Gong religious movement. Their ads have been all over the internet and YouTube and they appear at first glance to be a respectable publication. Being the skeptic I am, I investigated. Anyway, organizations, such as the Epoch Times, that masquerade as legitimate news organization are part of the global disinformation campaign to create chaos in strong democratic countries, such as the US and our European Allies.

Please excuse the short rant about this, however, it is extremely important that we understand the source and motivations of the news sources we rely on. Many are motivated by other than truth-telling. If anyone is interested in some classic references on the effects of propaganda, send me a PM and I'll send a few good sources. I won't post them publicly, unless I can find a sailing connection.

 

[Davidasailor26]

To each his own. I would think that headaches and soreness don't even get reported

A bunch of them have. Also, the items reported as “adverse effects” are just events that happened to people after being vaccinated; there’s no analysis built-in to attribute the effect to the vaccination. So, to give an example, if a few hundred people had headaches reported, there’s no analysis to say whether that’s more or less than how many people would’ve had a headache that day anyway. The purpose of the database is just to gather the data for that kind of analysis, not to flat-out say “x number of people got y sickness from the vaccine.”

 

[AndyVS]

I received my first shot yesterday. We had some people here at work catch it in December. While they recovered, I'll chance any side effects over what they went through. I find it very liberating to know that in 6 weeks my odds of catching it will be lower and I'll be able to see & hug the grand kids again.

 

[sail sfbay]

In Solano County, California, with a population 450,000, 34,743 vacinations have been administered out of ~80,000 peope in Phase 1A (front-line health care, long term care residents, dental, labs) with ~43% chosing to be vacinated. I conclude: 1) as a result of those in Phase 1A deciding not be be vacinnated that freed up vacinations for my wife and I to be vacinated way earlier that I thought (on Feb 1) as we are in Phase 1B Tier 1 (65+, education, child care, agriculture) and I guestimate there are 60,000 people in that category, and 2) with this low vacinnation level we will unlikely achieve herd immunity (herd immunity is achieved when large percentages of a population become immune to Covid-19 disease and therefore indirectly protect those who do not have immunity).

By the way, I had my first flu shot recently based on my doctor's recommendation, albeit never had the flu and have not had a cold in decades.

 

[Rick486]

Well, here in little RI, average retired folks like my wife and I won't get near a needle until every card carrying union employee across all walks of life, including inmates at our prison, receive theirs. So we are looking (optimistically) at a first shot around the end of February. By then most people in the state will be vaccinated under one guise or another.

 

[Ward H]

I'll be getting mine as soon as I can schedule a time slot. I'm more concerned about complications from catching Covid-19 than from the vaccine.
Unfortunately NJ's scheduling website has been having a few glitches and vaccine is in short supply.

 

[jssailem]

I am currently undecided.

I wonder. If you object to GMO modified food, meats, dairy products etc. are you concerned about a mRNA vaccine?

 

[Rick486]

I am currently undecided.

I wonder. If you object to GMO modified food, meats, dairy products etc. are you concerned about a mRNA vaccine?

Er, could you please explain your point so that non chemist folks could understand it?

 

[sail sfbay]

..................with ~43% chosing to be vacinated. I conclude: 1) as a result of those in Phase 1A deciding not be be vacinnated that freed up vacinations for my wife and I to be vacinated way earlier that I thought (on Feb 1) as we are in Phase 1B Tier 1 (65+, education, child care, agriculture) and I guestimate there are 60,000 people in that category, and 2) with this low vacinnation level we will unlikely achieve herd immunity (herd immunity is achieved when large percentages of a population become immune to Covid-19 disease and therefore indirectly protect those who do not have immunity)..............

I just modified post #26 with the above.

 

[Kings Gambit]

legitimate news organization

Ha! That’s a good one.

 

[dlochner]

Well, here in little RI, average retired folks like my wife and I won't get near a needle until every card carrying union employee across all walks of life, including inmates at our prison, receive theirs. So we are looking (optimistically) at a first shot around the end of February. By then most people in the state will be vaccinated under one guise or another.

For most of my professional career I was a central player in groups making significant decisions about the future of children's lives. When I think about the people who have to make decisions about the allocations of a very valuable and scarce resource like the Covid Vaccines, I'm glad I'm not them.

Think about it, how do you rationally decide who gets the vaccine and who waits? The first cut is easy, those who will be most exposed, most at risk, and most valuable in treating the disease; those in hospitals who take care of those who fall prey to the virus. Who's next?

We want schools to open, however, the real problem with schools opening is not transmission in the schools but staffing. We can't open schools if we don't have teachers, custodians, bus drivers, lunch aids, kitchen staff and so on.

What about first responders, firefighters, EMTs, police? Does your house burn down because the fire department is understaffed due to Covid? EMTs are at risk for exposure and what if there are not enough EMTs to respond because they are quarantined or ill?

The really tough cases are nursing home patients. On the one had they are older and have a shorter expected life span, so if they die a few months sooner, so what? And these are the most vulnerable. But, if they are filling hospital beds and ICUs what about the rest of us? If the beds are full and someone has a heart attack or accident and there is no bed for them?

I could go on, I think you see the point I'm making, the decisions about who gets the vaccine and when is heart rendering.

My wife and I got lucky. I happened to be on the computer when I got an email about available appointments. (actually it happened twice) and I was able to schedule appointments at first 6 weeks out and on the second time 24 hours out. (I did cancel the later appointment). We had the privilege of being retired, a fast internet connection, and luck. We are both over 65.

Finally, for this post, a good friend of ours had a stroke this week and is in the hospital. Fortunately there was a bed for him. If no bed was available and if delaying a vaccine would have provided a bed, it would be a very easy decision to make.

We know how to reduce the chances of being infected with Covid. We all have to make sacrifices. I wish us all well and hope we come to our senses and do that which is necessary to combat an errant piece of RNA.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Er, could you please explain your point so that non chemist folks could understand it?

The mRNA is a template for the synthesis of viral proteins within your own cells that jump-start your immune response to make antibodies against them. So when the real thing shows up, you already have antibodies. GMO foods derive from produce plants (sometimes animals) also containing “trans-genes” that can make unnatural proteins in vivo. The most famous example is with corn where it is genetically modified to secrete a toxin that kills insects trying to eat the corn, etc. So if you distrust or “hate” the technology of applying trans-genes because it is inherently unnatural in the extreme, then you should hate or distrust both applications—unless...? You figure it out!!!

 

[dlochner]

I am currently undecided.

I wonder. If you object to GMO modified food, meats, dairy products etc. are you concerned about a mRNA vaccine?

Well, that's an interesting question. So far we have no evidence that GMO modified foods cause the level of destruction that an errant RNA virus can cause.

An mRNA vaccine may have some long term unknown consequences, however, the errant RNA virus has some known consequences that are lethal to some and life threatening to others.

The decision to get a vaccination is for most a personal voluntary decision. However, if society at large determines that there are consequences to not getting a vaccine, then there should be no complaining by those who declined the vaccination on the restrictions society places on them.

There is an interesting set of essays by Jean-Jacques Rosseau on the social contract we have with each other. He was an 18th Century enlightenment philosopher who suggested that when we live in a society we accept certain norms and expectations and if we do not accept those norms and expectations we should not expect to receive any benefits from living in that society.

 

[smokey73]

My wife and I got our first Moderna vaccine this afternoon in Georgia. Scheduled on Monday and shot on Friday at Publix. Very efficient operation and they scheduled the second dose already. I was really impressed. My wife is 66 withType 1 Diabetes and I am 69 with 5 way bypass but neither of those conditions was relevant in getting the shot - just that both of us are over 65. She is really in the high risk category and I really worry about her more so than me. Its a no brainer for us. Except for the sore arm (duh - they just stuck a needle with some stuff in your arm) our daughter (a doctor) told us that most of the minor symptoms, especially the aches and possibly slight fever are most likely a good sign that your immune system is kicking in and producing antibodies. Your choice to take it or not but its an easy risk vs reward decision for us.

 

[ggrizzard]

My wife and I are over 70 and we got the shot at a Florida Publix early last month.
So far the only side effect we've seen is the heat from the people who want to be
first in line for the shot.

 

[sailme88]

Just when I was thinking we (wife is 70 and I am turning 70 in March) were NOT going to get a vaccination for a long while, my wife just scheduled an appointment for both of us on February 1st for the first shot at a county vaccination clinic in Vallejo, California. Yahoo!! They then schedule the second vacinnation for March 3. Aftet that we can leave to go camping on the Colorado River to escape the San Francisco winter. That tells me 2 things: 1) front line workers, who wanted the vacinnation, have gotten it, and 2) 75 year old's are not racing to get their vacinnation.

Anyone get their vacinnations yet?

It doesn't mean that you won't get it, it means that it won't hit you as hard AND you can still transmit it !

 

[kloudie1]

Mine is scheduled for tomorrow noon.
my wife is 46 so she has to wait a bit.

 

[jssailem]

we got the shot at a Florida Publix

It’s interesting that the grocery store is giving vaccine for a virus. Are you sure it was vaccine and not yogurt or milk? It can be easy to be confused.