Something happened this weekend and I'd like to get others opinions about my feelings on the matter, I'll try to be brief. Winds were terrible (0-3) and the residents were having a cook out at the end of the dock. One of them broke out a 10 foot dink with a sail kit and we were taking turns sailing it around the harbor while the food was cooking. I took it out, I've sailed it before, and managed to turn it over after a brief sail, my fault. Now, just about everyone that has ever sailed one of these things knows that you get wet every once in a while. This was not the first time that I've ever turned one of these things over and was familiar with the righting procedures. I was in the process of gathering the oars and other things that float and getting them into the boat. I got it upright and was clambering into it when about a 25 foot motorboat pulls up and asks me if I need any help. I told them that there wasn't any problem and thanked them. That didn't work, they didn't go away. I was asked again if I was ok and again responded that everything was ok, I was just getting ready to pump out the water. This is where it gets out of hand, they were insistant on helping. I started getting all sorts of instructions from the boat driver about what I should be doing, including his information that he had a 60 foot sail boat and that I should listen to him,(never did figure out what that was all about) then his wife or girlfriend chimes in with her opinions. I'm not too sure that there wasn't some opinions offered by their passengers too. What happened was that a simple thing got blown all out of proportion by well intended people and I was getting p@#$!d because of all of the confusion that they were creating, however, held it in because they were well intended. I found myself thinking more about trying to appease these well meaning people than taking care of the business at hand. Oh yes, I forgot to mention, I was about 50 yards from the party at the dock and all of my friend's were getting a chuckle out of all this. They knew that I wasn't in any danger. I didn't even get my hair or glasses wet. My question's are: Was I wrong about getting irritated after I told them that I was ok and didn't need their help and they wouldn't leave me alone? What would you do if you came up on a similar situation and your offer of help was declined? If someone pushed themselves off on you after your decline, would you tell them to go away or give in to them because their intentions were good?
Courtesy Opinion
- Thread starter J.B. Dyer
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How'd you manage ...
to capsize on a dead calm day? It sounds like there may have been a lot of fun at your expense! ;D I think the only thing you can do is grin and bear it. Also, it may be that your new powerboat friend may have needed somebody to impress and you were the unwitting target! I hope somebody handed you a cold beer when the ordeal was over!
to capsize on a dead calm day? It sounds like there may have been a lot of fun at your expense! ;D I think the only thing you can do is grin and bear it. Also, it may be that your new powerboat friend may have needed somebody to impress and you were the unwitting target! I hope somebody handed you a cold beer when the ordeal was over!
Be pleasant
Nothing worse than spectators when you mess up. I'd like to know how you managed to turn the dink over in 1-3 kts of wind. Yesterday there wa a guy on Wheeler lake with his female friend out in the middle of the lake in the water beside a jet ski. We circled because at first it appeared that he was towing the jetski towards shore. But it soon became apparent that they were just swimming and we kept our distance. A ski boat soon came over and asked them if they needed help. It is great that people want to help. Sure you were embarrassed but being rude to people trying to offer help isn't the correct thing to do. But I understand your feelings of not wanting unneeded help and offers of advice. Someday you might need help and you might get lucky and have people nearby willing and able to help you.
Nothing worse than spectators when you mess up. I'd like to know how you managed to turn the dink over in 1-3 kts of wind. Yesterday there wa a guy on Wheeler lake with his female friend out in the middle of the lake in the water beside a jet ski. We circled because at first it appeared that he was towing the jetski towards shore. But it soon became apparent that they were just swimming and we kept our distance. A ski boat soon came over and asked them if they needed help. It is great that people want to help. Sure you were embarrassed but being rude to people trying to offer help isn't the correct thing to do. But I understand your feelings of not wanting unneeded help and offers of advice. Someday you might need help and you might get lucky and have people nearby willing and able to help you.
I Can Understand Being Annoyed
...and think you made a wise decision to cap it. After all, they were trying at least. In my experience, in situations like yours, people will try to handle it themselves, even when over their head. I will stand by until someone is out of trouble. They had no way to know how experienced you were. They were over the top, but there are worse things. RD
...and think you made a wise decision to cap it. After all, they were trying at least. In my experience, in situations like yours, people will try to handle it themselves, even when over their head. I will stand by until someone is out of trouble. They had no way to know how experienced you were. They were over the top, but there are worse things. RD
Thanks for quick replies
Scott: I put "my fault" about the "sinking" in the original post attempting to shorten the explanation. How it happened, was that due to the wind having gone dead calm, I was installing the oars to row in and got off center to the port side and it tipped. Yes, I got a round of applause and a cold beer when I got back to the dock. Tom: There was no embarrasment involved, we are all good friends at the dock and are always ragging on each other. It was all part of the fun at the end of the day. It'll be someone elses turn next time. I kind of have your's and Rick's mind set and that is to orbit and watch, not interfere unless it's necessary after the original offer. My personal thought is the fact that I righted the boat and got back into it should have been a dead give away to any observer that I possibly knew what I was doing. The thought would have occured to me anyway. Make no mistakes, I'm not mad about it. I Just got to thinking about it and wondered what the consensus would be.
Scott: I put "my fault" about the "sinking" in the original post attempting to shorten the explanation. How it happened, was that due to the wind having gone dead calm, I was installing the oars to row in and got off center to the port side and it tipped. Yes, I got a round of applause and a cold beer when I got back to the dock. Tom: There was no embarrasment involved, we are all good friends at the dock and are always ragging on each other. It was all part of the fun at the end of the day. It'll be someone elses turn next time. I kind of have your's and Rick's mind set and that is to orbit and watch, not interfere unless it's necessary after the original offer. My personal thought is the fact that I righted the boat and got back into it should have been a dead give away to any observer that I possibly knew what I was doing. The thought would have occured to me anyway. Make no mistakes, I'm not mad about it. I Just got to thinking about it and wondered what the consensus would be.
I orbit and watch within hailing
distance. If it should look like they are in trouble I ask. If they say they are fine then I hover until I am sure that they are in control. Some years ago I lost control of Bietzpadlin because of a jammed halyard and inexperience. We were at risk of a lee shore so I set my anchor. A power boat came out from a nearby marina and offered assistance. I thanked him and assured him that I had an anchor set, that my problem was a jammed halyard, I had an engine and just needed time to sort it all out. He gave me a friendly wave and left. Nothing got broke and nobody got hurt. And a good time was had by all.
distance. If it should look like they are in trouble I ask. If they say they are fine then I hover until I am sure that they are in control. Some years ago I lost control of Bietzpadlin because of a jammed halyard and inexperience. We were at risk of a lee shore so I set my anchor. A power boat came out from a nearby marina and offered assistance. I thanked him and assured him that I had an anchor set, that my problem was a jammed halyard, I had an engine and just needed time to sort it all out. He gave me a friendly wave and left. Nothing got broke and nobody got hurt. And a good time was had by all.
I guess it all depends...
Allow me to explain, with an example also. Maybe they “perceived” that you were in danger, if not from the situation, but from the surrounding environment. Probably not, but perception is a weird thing. Here is my example. Not too long ago I witnessed a Hobby Cat take a spill. Winds were very strong that day. When the cat went over, the mast appeared to get stuck in the bottom because the guy could not right the boat. I was thinking to myself that maybe I should motor out and assist because if the mast became unstuck, the wind would push the boat into some big yachts tied up near by. Just as I was thinking this, the harbor police pulled up. I thought, good , they can help. Well, they motored off about a minute later. I was dumbfounded when I saw that. Sure enough, the guy got the mast unstuck and sure enough, the wind blew him into a 70’ motor yacht. Luckily there were some others near the yacht that saw the situation the same as I. What really pissed me off was the harbor police motoring away. They should have assessed the situation with the wind and his proximity to the yacht. So, I think the guy in the motor boat perceived you were in some type of danger. If I had offered help and was declined, I would back off and just wait to see if you were really OK, then go about my business. However, as a boater I find that offering help is one thing, being a pain in the behind is something else.
Allow me to explain, with an example also. Maybe they “perceived” that you were in danger, if not from the situation, but from the surrounding environment. Probably not, but perception is a weird thing. Here is my example. Not too long ago I witnessed a Hobby Cat take a spill. Winds were very strong that day. When the cat went over, the mast appeared to get stuck in the bottom because the guy could not right the boat. I was thinking to myself that maybe I should motor out and assist because if the mast became unstuck, the wind would push the boat into some big yachts tied up near by. Just as I was thinking this, the harbor police pulled up. I thought, good , they can help. Well, they motored off about a minute later. I was dumbfounded when I saw that. Sure enough, the guy got the mast unstuck and sure enough, the wind blew him into a 70’ motor yacht. Luckily there were some others near the yacht that saw the situation the same as I. What really pissed me off was the harbor police motoring away. They should have assessed the situation with the wind and his proximity to the yacht. So, I think the guy in the motor boat perceived you were in some type of danger. If I had offered help and was declined, I would back off and just wait to see if you were really OK, then go about my business. However, as a boater I find that offering help is one thing, being a pain in the behind is something else.
Keep smiling, thankfull, and pleasant.... reasure
all is well. DO NOT GET PISSED OFF AT PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU....even if they do not know what they are doing, because one time you will need the help and no one will be there for you. abe
all is well. DO NOT GET PISSED OFF AT PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU....even if they do not know what they are doing, because one time you will need the help and no one will be there for you. abe
Similar tale
Fellow overturned a dinghy in the York River (Virginia) in heavy winds late Saturday and waved off help. A small motorboat managed to tow him into shore two miles away after someone else jumped into help. Two of them stayed with the boat to keep it righted as they slowly went in. Other sailboats and motorboats stood by to assist, but he was confident, albeit dangerously so. Everyone was polite, but whoever took charge with the small motorboat was the hero. As cold as the water was, I think he should have abandoned ship, taken a ride back to shore, and returned with a salvage crew since the boat still had floation. By the way, repeated contact with the US Coast Guard was nearly futile even though the Coast Guard Training Center was a mile away! Someone with the Auxiliary finally came out. Moral: Sailor is more important than the boat.
Fellow overturned a dinghy in the York River (Virginia) in heavy winds late Saturday and waved off help. A small motorboat managed to tow him into shore two miles away after someone else jumped into help. Two of them stayed with the boat to keep it righted as they slowly went in. Other sailboats and motorboats stood by to assist, but he was confident, albeit dangerously so. Everyone was polite, but whoever took charge with the small motorboat was the hero. As cold as the water was, I think he should have abandoned ship, taken a ride back to shore, and returned with a salvage crew since the boat still had floation. By the way, repeated contact with the US Coast Guard was nearly futile even though the Coast Guard Training Center was a mile away! Someone with the Auxiliary finally came out. Moral: Sailor is more important than the boat.
Last year....
I was sailing my Hunter 90 at out of Seneca state Park Marina in Geneva. The hunter 90 is a 9' dinghy, and I had my 6 and 8 year old kids in the boat with me. The wind was steady at about 10 knots or so, blowing me right out the canal chanel into seneca Lake. I pulled the main near centerline to spill some speed, as my a powerboat was manuevering into the marina in front of me and I didn't want to get right up on him. All of the sudden this A-hole from the Marina starts yelling sailing instructions "Let the sail out....your doing it all wrong. Is this your first time sailing?" What ails these people? I told him he was number one with a hand gesture, and regretted it immediately, but why people feel the need to get involved is just crazy. The best part was when I tacked into the marina later, the wind was up, and the kids were squeeling with a combination of fear and exhileration as I tacked about a foot from loud mouths boat before heading down to the small boat launch. I've been there and know the feeling. take Care Steve
I was sailing my Hunter 90 at out of Seneca state Park Marina in Geneva. The hunter 90 is a 9' dinghy, and I had my 6 and 8 year old kids in the boat with me. The wind was steady at about 10 knots or so, blowing me right out the canal chanel into seneca Lake. I pulled the main near centerline to spill some speed, as my a powerboat was manuevering into the marina in front of me and I didn't want to get right up on him. All of the sudden this A-hole from the Marina starts yelling sailing instructions "Let the sail out....your doing it all wrong. Is this your first time sailing?" What ails these people? I told him he was number one with a hand gesture, and regretted it immediately, but why people feel the need to get involved is just crazy. The best part was when I tacked into the marina later, the wind was up, and the kids were squeeling with a combination of fear and exhileration as I tacked about a foot from loud mouths boat before heading down to the small boat launch. I've been there and know the feeling. take Care Steve
Capsizing story ...
When I was a 14-year old kid we had a Sea Scouter sailboat at our summer home on a small lake in Illinois. My dad had some Japanese business associates visiting one Sunday afternoon and this younger guy, who didn't really know any English was anxious to sail the small dingy. He was across the lake, doing fine, until a group (including me) went out in our runabout to see how he was faring. Since we distracted him, he capsized. My dad said, jump in and give him a hand getting the boat righted. We was going back to the dock to drop people off and probably get a towing line. I capsized the boat on a frequent basis and knew the drill. The boat didn't have a self bailing cockpit, so our normal routine was to get it righted and have dad tow me to shore to bail it out. So I show the Japanese fellow how to right the boat and tried to explain that he couldn't climb in but we had to just hang on to the side while we waited for Dad to get back. he had a life jacket on and the water was in the mid 80's so it was no big deal. Instead, he climbs in and capsizes the boat. We go thru the routine again and still I couldn't communicate with him to stay out of the boat! So it capsizes a third time and this time it turns turtle. The boat had a design flaw because there was nothing to keep the mast from sliding out of it's slot in the bow and down to the bottom went the mast, the boom, and the sail. So now we get it righted again, minus a few necessary parts and my new friend finally got the idea! After my dad got back and towed us in, he pulled me aside and said, "How'd you let the mast slide out?" *grr The next weekend, the local rescue squad tried to find the mast, boom, and sail in about 40' of pitch black water that was about 50 degrees down there because of the thermoclines. They didn't succeed but they sure had a great time drinking beer at a party later-on that night to mark the occasion!
When I was a 14-year old kid we had a Sea Scouter sailboat at our summer home on a small lake in Illinois. My dad had some Japanese business associates visiting one Sunday afternoon and this younger guy, who didn't really know any English was anxious to sail the small dingy. He was across the lake, doing fine, until a group (including me) went out in our runabout to see how he was faring. Since we distracted him, he capsized. My dad said, jump in and give him a hand getting the boat righted. We was going back to the dock to drop people off and probably get a towing line. I capsized the boat on a frequent basis and knew the drill. The boat didn't have a self bailing cockpit, so our normal routine was to get it righted and have dad tow me to shore to bail it out. So I show the Japanese fellow how to right the boat and tried to explain that he couldn't climb in but we had to just hang on to the side while we waited for Dad to get back. he had a life jacket on and the water was in the mid 80's so it was no big deal. Instead, he climbs in and capsizes the boat. We go thru the routine again and still I couldn't communicate with him to stay out of the boat! So it capsizes a third time and this time it turns turtle. The boat had a design flaw because there was nothing to keep the mast from sliding out of it's slot in the bow and down to the bottom went the mast, the boom, and the sail. So now we get it righted again, minus a few necessary parts and my new friend finally got the idea! After my dad got back and towed us in, he pulled me aside and said, "How'd you let the mast slide out?" *grr The next weekend, the local rescue squad tried to find the mast, boom, and sail in about 40' of pitch black water that was about 50 degrees down there because of the thermoclines. They didn't succeed but they sure had a great time drinking beer at a party later-on that night to mark the occasion!
Much better...
...to have an offer of help when you don't need it than not to have it when you do. More than 30 years ago I capsized my home-built daysailer when the wind came up and the mainsheet fouled on the cleat swivel. It was October, the water was chilly, we were a little ways out, and no other boats were in sight. Luckily some folks on shore saw us and came out to give us a tow in. I don't know their names, but silently thank them whenever I think of it.
...to have an offer of help when you don't need it than not to have it when you do. More than 30 years ago I capsized my home-built daysailer when the wind came up and the mainsheet fouled on the cleat swivel. It was October, the water was chilly, we were a little ways out, and no other boats were in sight. Luckily some folks on shore saw us and came out to give us a tow in. I don't know their names, but silently thank them whenever I think of it.
Kill'em with Kindness
J, You have a feeling that you were "too nice," and should have been more asssertive. People mean well, and also want to feel useful/important by offering unsolicited help and/or advice. A scrap of courtesy and a bit of psychology can go a long way in these situations. Often, erstwhile helpers just need to be reassured that you're not just waving them off while being in real need, so their sense of duty is satisfied: explaining that it's no big deal, that you've done this twenty times before, and will be on your way in a minute, and your friends are right over there, is sometimes all it takes. The know-it-all is more difficult. Changing your tone from sheepish self-deprecation to something more firm is called for. I'd probably insist that I was fine, but invite my rescuer to "stand off over there and keep an eye on me if you want." Again, his needs are satisfied, and he's out of your hair. If he doesn't pick up the hint, just ignore him, and especially any directions he might give, and give him time to feel the cold shoulder. Eventually, just out and telling him that he's distracting you may be the last thing you say to him, but I wouldn't let myself continue in a conversation, mostly to prevent my temper from getting the best of me, but also to discourage him. I'm the kind of guy who would climb up on my overturned hull and just stare at him, patiently, until he moved on. But that's just me. Of course, he may not leave until he's satisfied he's fixed you up good and proper, and then go buy himself a beer as congratulatons. You can't change people. Especially obnoxious ones. After I'd offer help and was declined, I'd probably stand off, but jill around and keep an eye on him until I was satisfied I really wasn't needed. Gives him his own ego space, but he knows he can wave me in again if he wants.
J, You have a feeling that you were "too nice," and should have been more asssertive. People mean well, and also want to feel useful/important by offering unsolicited help and/or advice. A scrap of courtesy and a bit of psychology can go a long way in these situations. Often, erstwhile helpers just need to be reassured that you're not just waving them off while being in real need, so their sense of duty is satisfied: explaining that it's no big deal, that you've done this twenty times before, and will be on your way in a minute, and your friends are right over there, is sometimes all it takes. The know-it-all is more difficult. Changing your tone from sheepish self-deprecation to something more firm is called for. I'd probably insist that I was fine, but invite my rescuer to "stand off over there and keep an eye on me if you want." Again, his needs are satisfied, and he's out of your hair. If he doesn't pick up the hint, just ignore him, and especially any directions he might give, and give him time to feel the cold shoulder. Eventually, just out and telling him that he's distracting you may be the last thing you say to him, but I wouldn't let myself continue in a conversation, mostly to prevent my temper from getting the best of me, but also to discourage him. I'm the kind of guy who would climb up on my overturned hull and just stare at him, patiently, until he moved on. But that's just me. Of course, he may not leave until he's satisfied he's fixed you up good and proper, and then go buy himself a beer as congratulatons. You can't change people. Especially obnoxious ones. After I'd offer help and was declined, I'd probably stand off, but jill around and keep an eye on him until I was satisfied I really wasn't needed. Gives him his own ego space, but he knows he can wave me in again if he wants.
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