Couple found dead in life raft

[higgs]

Atlantic trip couple Sarah Packwood and Brett Clibbery found dead weeks after setting off - BBC News

Sarah Packwood and husband Brett Clibbery had set off from Nova Scotia and were heading for the Azores on their yacht, Theros

www.bbc.com

 

[higgs]

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I can't imagine a worse way to go than two people slowly dying in a life raft.

I sincerely hope their souls will know everlasting peace after this terrible end to their lives.

 

[capta]

At least one source stated that the "amateur" conversion from traditional power to her "eco" system could have contributed to, or caused the tragedy. Only posting what I read, not endorsing it in any way.

 

[Thaniel]

At least one source stated that the "amateur" conversion from traditional power to her "eco" system

Aren't sail boats powered by sails, what's more eco friendly than sails?

 

[capta]

Aren't sail boats powered by sails, what's more eco friendly than sails?

In this case, they are talking about an amateur conversion from carbon fueled power to electric, but I'm sure you knew that and were just pretending not to understand. At least I sure hope so.

 

[jviss]

In this case, they are talking about an amateur conversion from carbon fueled power to electric, but I'm sure you knew that and were just pretending not to understand. At least I sure hope so.

No, I think he completely understands. These poor people, R.I.P., were a couple of delusional eco-nuts, in my view. What on earth were they trying to prove, and to whom, and why? And, even with a complete electrical and propulsion failure, assuming they had water and some non-perishable food, they should have been able to make it. We don't know the whole story, but I surmise the boat sunk, unrelated to the eco aspect, and they just didn't have a good enough supply of stuff in the life raft.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I wonder if hypothermia had something to do with their death. I assume they were in some very cold water. Over a long period of time, even within a life raft, the cold may have worn them down and affected their survival chances if they were not properly outfitted for the cold.

 

[capta]

No, I think he completely understands. These poor people, R.I.P., were a couple of delusional eco-nuts, in my view. What on earth were they trying to prove, and to whom, and why? And, even with a complete electrical and propulsion failure, assuming they had water and some non-perishable food, they should have been able to make it. We don't know the whole story, but I surmise the boat sunk, unrelated to the eco aspect, and they just didn't have a good enough supply of stuff in the life raft.

Yes, a fire also could have happened, which may be why no sign of the boat has been found to date. Lithium batteries, especially those sourced from any but a reputable seller, are risky at the best of times.

 

[jssailem]

Lithium batteries, especially those sourced from any but a reputable seller, are risky at the best of times.

Drop those batteries in the boat. Head out across the ocean.
Yes that sounds like a prescription for failure.

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How do you choose a "REPUTABLE SELLER". With named sellers being bought out and changing monthly. The manufacturers changing their products weekly. They try to sell out their old "Inventory". BMS electronics being tested by the buyers of product.

It is like the wild west out there, with snake oil sellers around every corner.

Caution is warranted. Darwin theory is evident, so sorry to say.

 

[Johann]

Lithium batteries, especially those sourced from any but a reputable seller, are risky at the best of times.

Not all Lithium batteries are equal. The boat in question had a NMC Nissan Leaf battery. LiFePO4 batteries are no more of a risk than lead acid batteries.

 

[higgs]

As Hurricane Ian demonstrated - salt water and lithium batteries are a bad mix. The Ft Myers area had numerous fires from electric cars that got flooded.

 

[jviss]

As Hurricane Ian demonstrated - salt water and lithium batteries are a bad mix. The Ft Myers area had numerous fires from electric cars that got flooded.

Let's not spread misinformation here. As @Johann stated, LiFePO4 batteries are not the same as Li-Ion batteries!

"In addition to their increased safety, LiFePO4 batteries have other advantages over lithium-ion batteries. They are incombustable, meaning they will not burn when exposed to fire. This is an important feature in the event of mishandling during charging or discharging. Lithium iron phosphate batteries can also withstand harsh conditions, including freezing cold and scorching heat, as well as rough terrain. This makes them a reliable choice for use in recreational vehicles."

Why LiFePO4 Batteries Are The Safer Choice For Your Motorhome Or Caravan In New Zealand | Motorhome Solar

A LiFePO4 (or lithium iron phosphate) battery has superior chemical & mechanical structure, less prone to thermal runaway & more resistant to harsh conditions.

motorhomesolar.co.nz

.

However, that Nissan Leaf battery pack could have been Li-Ion, which is the less safe kind, and once it ignites, it's almost impossible to extinguish it.

 

[Jim Legere]

Let's not spread misinformation here.

Exactly. An electrical fire, whatever the battery chemistry, is speculation. There was also a ship - bulk carrier - that crossed their track around the time contact was lost with their boat; the ship's crew was questioned but no one was aware of any yacht. A collision is also speculation. As they were not able to transmit a MAYDAY by any of the several means they had available (no EPIRB unfortunately) we can also speculate that whatever caused them to abandon ship was catastophic and quick. The news reports were not clear whether they were in their life raft or their inflatable tender when they were found on Sable Island. DNA analysis was required to confirm the identity of the crew, so it is likely the bodies were decomposed after weeks at sea. At some point the Coast Guard and Transport Canada will issue a report that may put an end to some or all of the speculation.

 

[capta]

Not all Lithium batteries are equal. The boat in question had a NMC Nissan Leaf battery. LiFePO4 batteries are no more of a risk than lead acid batteries.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to state, "LiFePO4 batteries are no more of a risk than lead acid batteries", but they are certainly safer than many battery technologies out there..

 

[jviss]

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to state, "LiFePO4 batteries are no more of a risk than lead acid batteries", but they are certainly safer than many battery technologies out there..

Here's what Google's AI says:

"
Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries are generally considered safer than lead acid batteries:

• LiFePO4 batteries
  Have a lower risk of overheating, exploding, or catching fire due to their chemical makeup and safety features. These features include a non-flammable electrolyte, stable cathode material, built-in protection circuit, and robust cell design. LiFePO4 batteries are also non-toxic, non-contaminating, and don't contain rare earth metals."

 

[Davidasailor26]

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to state, "LiFePO4 batteries are no more of a risk than lead acid batteries", but they are certainly safer than many battery technologies out there..

Having seen what happens to a shorted lead acid battery and compared it to the letter from the ABYC president at https://marinehowto.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/ABYC_LFP_Testing.pdf I’m comfortable saying LiFePO4 is no more of a fire risk. Certainly there are other risks and considerations with either technology (for example a BMS shutdown blacking out the boat, etc.).

In any case the general thoughts are that Theros was powered by Leaf batteries, likely not LiFePO4, and we don’t even know if they were related to the tragedy, making the lead/lithium discussion a bit far afield.

 

[American_Mainsail]

Having seen what happens to a shorted lead acid battery and compared it to the letter from the ABYC president at https://marinehowto.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/ABYC_LFP_Testing.pdf I’m comfortable saying LiFePO4 is no more of a fire risk. Certainly there are other risks and considerations with either technology (for example a BMS shutdown blacking out the boat, etc.).

In any case the general thoughts are that Theros was powered by Leaf batteries, likely not LiFePO4, and we don’t even know if they were related to the tragedy, making the lead/lithium discussion a bit far afield.

I was thinking about this letter while reading the discussion here. Thanks for posting it.

Back to the original post, this is a terrible tragedy. There's no technical aspects about their boat that can erase that.

I'm looking forward to reading the accident report so that we can honor these sailors by learning about what could have possibly been done to avoid this terrible loss. My heart goes out to their family and friends.