Could there be an AIS Transceiver/VHF radio in your future

[jssailem]

This has been a discussion since 2017 when Standard Horizon announced the 6500 radio that never went beyond the marketing announcement. Not it appears the Simrad and B&G have announced they are revealing their own AIS B class transmit/receive system housed in a VHF radio. MSRP about $1100. Due out in June 2019 (but apparently has seen a slight delay).

I read about it in Panbo. Here is the web site for Simrad.
https://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-...ios-ais/vhf-marine-radio-dsc-ais-rxtx-rs40-b/

Sounds like a fair price for an item combines both features.

Not sure when it will becoming to retail.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Unfortunately "AIS functionality requires either a second VHF antenna or a VHF/AIS antenna splitter." I guess it could be nice to just have the one unit perform both functions, but if you still need a second antenna or splitter that's a big drawback.

We had a lightning strike take out our Simrad RS35 last year. At the time we would've contemplated upgrading to something like this if it were available. Unfortunately the price differential from a replacement RS35 to this would be about $500 for the radio, plus a $250 splitter, plus a new $145 wireless handset. That's a $900 premium just for AIS transmit (the RS35 already has a receiver that doesn't need a dedicated antenna). Not sure I could justify that premium; it's not really a better cost than just adding a separate transponder + splitter.

 

[BigEasy]

Would be a great addition with GPS, DSC, and AIS all incorporated into the VHF radio. Key word in the details that it can integrate into compatible multi function display. Wouldn’t be of much benefit without ability to display AIS data at the helm display. Would guess that others are developing similar capabilities and will see competitive pricing in future.

 

[jssailem]

will see competitive pricing in future.

Yes I would think that will happen. It has been all talk so far.

Yes David. This has been true always. You can not transmit both VHF and AIS on the same antenna at the same time. So either 2 antenna or a splitter that actively blocks one of the transmitters while the other one talks.

Vesper has had this for several years. I bought mine in 2016 and it does just that. One antenna, two transmitters, VHF priority, active blocking of signal to antenna.

That it can now come in a single package will be of interest to some boaters. Not sure if the system will integrate with the chart plotter, but I think that would be a no brainer for the engineers. You will want to be able to see the AIS data of a boat and point and click on the boat to make a DSC call to the VHF radio of the boat, all in one simple action. It happens now, I would think it could be an included feature. I could not find a manual online as of yet.

 

[Red_Dog]

Yes, there is an AIS system in my future.
I'm not sure about a single device (full integrated radio) though. I think it could be limiting to additional devices that would benefit from information transfer from the AIS system.
I'm looking at Vesper's XB-8000 with wifi, NMEA 0183 and 2000 interfaces. this would allow interfacing with my current radio, wheel pilot and computer (smart phone, tablet - whatever) and what the future may bring for onboard electronics.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Yes David. This has been true always. You can not transmit both VHF and AIS on the same antenna at the same time. So either 2 antenna or a splitter that actively blocks one of the transmitters while the other one talks.

True. I just read more on the rumored Standard Horizon offering and apparently it would have the same limitation. The SH radio was supposed to retail at $800, which makes the added cost of a splitter more palatable. At $1100 it would be nice if Navico had integrated a splitter too. Having said that, the SH radio was apparently too good to be true, and Navico is at least closer to market.

Not sure if the system will integrate with the chart plotter, but I think that would be a no brainer for the engineers. You will want to be able to see the AIS data of a boat and point and click on the boat to make a DSC call to the VHF radio of the boat, all in one simple action. It happens now, I would think it could be an included feature. I could not find a manual online as of yet.

Putting received targets on an MFD will probably work the same way as the current RS35 and RS40. The radio puts the AIS data on the NMEA network, and any capable MFD picks it up and puts the icon on the screen. Tap on the icon and you get the full details and an option to make a DSC call.

 

[jviss]

I don't know why the need for a second antenna or splitter is viewed as a drawback. Some boaters will want a second antenna, and don't want to pay extra for an integrated splitter they don't need.

I have two fixed radios, two antennas, and a splitter! I didn't do this, it came this way. But at least I know in the case of a dismasting, I'll still have one antenna for VHF and AIS.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Perhaps. But at relatively low priority now. I’d like to have a telescoping whisker pole, a second house battery bank, and a couple of other items that qualify under BOAT.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Yeah, I agree that the redundancy of having multiple radios and antennas can be a very good thing. I guess the part that I don't understand is the value proposition that they're trying to make with this model. For the cost they're asking you can get a VHF and separate AIS transponder, and have even more redundancy.

 

[Jackdaw]

From a product development perspective, the question of integrated vs interconnected always rages. As long as a good interconnect strategy exists, integrated runs the risk of
1) having one subsystem fail, in effect killing the whole device
2) tech advances obsoleting one subsystem, in effect obsoleting the entire device.

 

[jssailem]

It is an advancement with technology or it is a risk. It is similar to the argument about a dedicated radar system or radar on the MFD chart plotter.

Personally, I like the single function systems. Then if I want to also integrate them using my internal network I can. Should one fail I am not out all of the systems just the one. Having a splitter does not negate the functionality of the unit. If the splitter fails, One can always disconnect the antenna and attach to which ever unit needs priority ie the radio. Having an AIS receiver on the radio provides partial function redundancy. Only loss is the AIS transmit function.

That said, some folk will say I want one system with everything in a single unit. Kind of like the ability to use a Mac Laptop with FaceTime, messaging, regular laptop features, and integrate phone calls over wifi. I call it 'Apple Magic'.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

I don’t know if I’d want a combined unit. I do leave my AIS on all night when anchored out (off when at dock). If it was combined I’d either have to listen to ch16 squawk all night or turn the volume way down. Knowing my memory I’d forget to turn it back up in the AM. I’ll take two boxes and turn off the vhf at night!!


Les

 

[LeslieTroyer]

It is an advancement with technology or it is a risk. It is similar to the argument about a dedicated radar system or radar on the MFD chart plotter.

, One can always disconnect the antenna and attach to which ever unit needs priority ie the radio.

Wouldn’t that be the AIS?? I know you have a hand held to provide the radio function. Unless you need height for range.

 

[jssailem]

If a problem like the splitter failed, I'd connect the VHF and switch off the Vesper AIS. The VHF gives me AIS receiving so all that I have shut down is the transmit. The options also includes connecting the AIS transmitter and shut down the VHF main radio, and rely on the portable radio.

It is nice to have options.

 

[Ilanortho]

Anyone know about or have experience with the Raymarine AIS700 tranceiver with a built in splitter?
I have one antenna and use a Standard Horizon radio w/ AIS receiver along with a Raymarine e7 series chartplotter, and wonder if the AIS700 could be put in and solve the issue of sending as well as receiving AIS signals (using one antenna). Have talked to two Raymarine dealers that don't seem to either have knowledge or enthusiasm for this unit being used as a solution.

 

[jssailem]

@Ilanortho Have you read the manual?
http://www.raymarine.com/ais/ais700/
It is available on line. It will tell you how the unit is configured.
I have a different manufactured unit. It is about the same cost but with wifi features. It provides NMEA2000 data to the Seatalkng network. It splits the antenna with my SH VHF radio.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Yes the 700 is the same as having a 650 and a 200, which is what I have... works great.

I have a SD 2150 and e7D. Just make sure and pull the transmit from the SH to the e7D

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I like the idea of this integration -- certainly makes it easy. However, I'm currently using separate antennas, with the AIS antenna mounted on the aft rail. The typical signal loss of a VHF splitter is almost 3db, which is HUGE. The makers will highlight "less then 3db loss" as a feature (LOL, marketing).
The redundancy (as mentioned above in event of dismasting) is good to have, but it's even better to have a VHF signal that is stronger in both send and receive. As for the range of the AIS signal, being low to the water -- I don't see that as an issue. AIS is most valuable (to see and be seen) in closer range situations under 5 miles.
edit: Yes, longer range AIS is helpful offshore but even then, I think 10 miles is about the limit of need. Anything beyond that is non-critical information.

 

[jssailem]

I have no issue with your rail choice for the AIS antenna. It adds a bit of low easily contacted clutter. Not an issue with the distance of transmission. Note you transmitting at what 3-5 feet above the water. The antenna for the big boys is some 100plus feet above the water, they should be able to see/hear your AIS signal 13 miles away (the radio horizon) depending on the power of the transmission.

To expand on this, the antenna standing at 5 feet above the water has a radio horizon of 3.1 miles.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

To expand on this, the antenna standing at 5 feet above the water has a radio horizon of 3.1 miles.

It’s more like 8 feet, and other boats presumably have some degree of antenna height, so the 3.1 mile number is just academic. In practice the range is probably greater.