Cost to refit

[Bad Obsession]

Have you ever noticed that when you buy a boat there is a substantial cost to refit it?

Even if a boat is pretty well set-up when you buy it, you always want to change some things on it and it ends up costing more than you think that you will spend on the refit. Then, while you are changing something or upgrading something you figure out more things that you want to do. Another fact is that little things add up quickly!

When I bought my current boat I figured that I needed some money to refit it. I have doubled what I thought I would spend to refit it and I am not done. I also notice that a refit tends to take place over time and not everything at once. This is a money thing and also a planning out, figuring out, and man hour thing.

Has anyone else come to this conclusion?

 

[BarryL]

Hey,

It's only natural that when you buy a boat you want to make it 'yours' and also you find things that aren't up to standards.

When I bought my current boat I knew right away that I needed to add an Autopilot, Dodger, Lazy Jacks, and some interior niceties. The Autopilot and Lazy Jacks got done immediately, the interior stuff later in the season, and I'm still waiting on the Dodger. Overall, the boat is as I expected it. All boats require work, maintenance, and 'upgrades' that never end.

When I bought my previous boat (O'day 35) it was mostly in 'sail away' condition. I really didn't do anything for the first year except sail it and get to know it. It was wonderfully equipped with autopilot, wind, speed, depth instruments, dodger, bimini, cockpit cushions, refrigeration, inverter, 3 large batteries, pressure hot and cold water, etc. After a year or so I started on maintenance, then added a plotter, and upgraded gear as it wore out.

Barry

 

[All U Get]

Has anyone else come to this conclusion?

Yes, and you must have been leaning on a jack while I discussed this with our service manager today. It was sunny and warm enough to be near the water so we made the trip. So at the end of a maintenance discussion the conversation shifted to warm winters and sandy beaches. Yards have no compassion.

All U Get

Didn't see anyone with shorts and flip-flops, but he was probably busy with winter projects.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

"Has anyone else come to this conclusion?"

That's not a conclusion. That's a foregone FACT. That's why I do not keep receipts on boat expenditures The boat gets, what the boat needs, period

 

[Bad Obsession]

I thank God that I am not tied to a yard or paying someone to do the work I am doing. Ugh, the cost would quickly surpass the cost of my boat!

I wouldn't be a boat owner if I had to have a yard do all of my work.

Still, I notice that small things add up in a quick way. I am doing some rewiring this spring, pretty much re-doing the whole system, and all the components that go into it add up quickly. The wire is expensive, but all of the connectors, battery lugs, and things like that quickly catch up to the other stuff.

 

[Stu Jackson]

That's why most of us say: "Don't buy a project boat!"

We know YOU haven't, and many of us have been in your shoes: bought sailaway boats, but then things start "happeneing."

In my case, it, too, was the electrical system: pulled out old ferro charger, new combined I/C, wiring, eventual alternator upgrade. In your case, sounds similar.

Just because you go down in size doesn't mean you instantly forget all those "big boat" system things you learned from the 30 footer, eh?

Funny how just like in electrical troubleshooting, in cost of electrical stuff: it's the connectors!

 

[Bad Obsession]

Stu, you have a point.

Some of my work is preventative, other parts of it is upgrade to help with power issues, and some of it is to clean up that "What the heck" wiring from a Previous owner.

The worst part is that I know what other boats have, system wise, and how they work. I then go...hrm...I can do that on this. I will have pressurized water on mine eventually and a cool water shower in my cockpit.

My other issue is taking what most people look at as a day sailor and turning it into a pretty good pocket cruiser. It has a good cabin and overnight set-up. Add better battery bank, pressurized water, better charging system, and a few other niceties and it is a serious cruiser for extended stays.

 

[Stu Jackson]

It has a good cabin and overnight set-up. Add better ..................and a few other niceties and it is a serious cruiser for extended stays.

Interesting. That's the goal and you know enough to make the systems support that end.

Good ideas.

 

[Ron20324]

That's why most of us say: "Don't buy a project boat!"...

I didn't buy a project boat- I bought new. While sitting on my deck working, people would ask why I'm making new lifelines for a new boat. Seems the cockpit had double gates on both sides, but I had to dock bow-in and needed gates at the bow. That was the start of it. In no time at all I had made a list of 54 things I added or changed to my "new" boat.

 

[All U Get]

Our extended stays stretched to months. Við hleifi mic seldo ne viþ hornigi.

All U Get

 

[Bad Obsession]

I was smart enough to take one cruise as is....well, I added a GPS and a stereo before the cruise. That cruise taught me a lot.

I learned the issue of the limited power and limited charging. I figure out how to carry jerry jugs for fuel. I also learned that the brand new cushions that I have in my V berth are way too firm so I need a foam mattress topper for it. My cooler suggestion worked, the dingy was good, and the boat sails better than expected.

I did get side tracked this winter with a deal that I couldn't pass on an asymmetrical spinnaker that was used. That ended up costing me the cost of the sail, some blocks, and since I had to do some running rigging I did most of the running rigging.

As I stated earlier, I phase my refit but phases get changed around based on needs, deals, and other things. It is still expensive.

 

[Benny17441]

Well, when purchasing a boat it is very hard to find one that meets your long list of requirements. It seems that you will only find it after you have already made a purchase. We tend to look at those missing requirements as somewhat of a plus in the sense of improvement projects that can be done to our liking and rather inexpensively considering our craftsman skills. It would really be kind of boring to have the perfect boat where the only challenge would be in the form of oil changes. It is a fact of boating that the refit will never be completed and the cost will be a lot higher than was originally projected. I think the best analogy would be "never go to the supermarket when you are hungry."

 

[Kings Gambit]

I bought a "project boat" once. A 1978 Grady White Overnighter. Those are nice, quality, power boats--but that one needed a lot of "cosmetic work"--which, in the end, did not get all that much of. I got a lot of use out of it but sold it for way less than 50% of what I had in it at the end. Boats deteriorate in a mosaic fashion--some components degrade faster than others--but it's constant and relentless as a whole. You may have, say, 50 days a year to maintain and repair, but the boat sees all 360 days a year of deterioration. The only way to keep them up, or "refit", is to hire out a lot of the work ($$$$). So, if you start with a project boat, it will likely always be a project boat unless there is a big cash inflow; in which case--why not buy one that's good enough to go to begin with, and then GO?!! It's pay me now, or pay me later!

 

[Bad Obsession]

I don't think that I would do a project boat because I know what goes into it. Still, buying an older boat you know that you will be jumping into some projects.

I do enjoy doing some of the upgrades and learning new trades. I have learned a lot of electrical, motor, canvas, and some other things. We learn fiberglass, some wood working, and wood refinishing.

 

[Capri30]

And when your done!!

A new owner will come along and start changing everything to their liking, or almost everything. Leaving you scratching your head. I've always figured if I want a fast boat I buy a fast boat and not try to make it fast, if I want to cruise I'll buy a cruising boat not trying to make a cruising boat.

 

[Capri30]

Boat Ownership

Boat ownership = Either you become a mechanical engineer or you have a fat wallet, or you just let it go downhill then in a few years its worth nothing.

 

[CloudDiver]

I think anyone buying a used boat, from 'project' grade up to 'just needs a few things' has to take the time to do some deep self-reflection on your own abilities and what you can afford. the most important thing you can do on both points is be honest and realistic with your expectations.

If you look at my resto thread (C-22 forum) you'll notice I have an indoor space, my garage is 37 ft deep. If I did not have this I would not have even considered a boat that needed that much work! On the same token, I cannot have anything bigger than 22 ft, and it must be a dagger board/swing keel or the like to make the overhead clearance of the door. Now, if I had a big barn or something I could go bigger, so on and so fourth.
I also have the skills, experience, and some 'heavy' equipment that many people don't have. My Miller Welders (MIG & TIG) plus my plasma cutter can handle anything most sailboats need. These welding jobs are few and far between so the average person would not invest that money in buying that equipment for a few jobs.

If you have a bigger hull, but don't have the space (indoor or outdoor) to work on your own property then prepare to pay out the nose for a yard. Personally I won't do it. If I was making the kind of money needed to pay someone else for yard services I would just buy a hull that does not need that kind of work.

If you find a deal on a bigger hull but you want to do upgrades that don't require haul out, don't let anyone B.S. you into believing that you CAN'T do your own work... within reason. Yes, there are jobs that may be beyond the average sailor's ability that you don't want to F up, like rigging for example. So review the above points about self reflection upon your own ability level and be honest with yourself. It is possible to do the upgrades you want with your own sweat equity.

 

[Jackdaw]

The big question is: 'What is your time worth??'

Very quickly in life the bigger question is no longer about if you 'like to work on boats'. Its about how you spend your time. As you get older, you normally sort out into one of two camps.

Have more money than time.
Have more time than money.

Boats, new or old will always require work. How that work gets done depends on what model works best for you. If you are in the second camp you will pay to have stuff done, so you can sail.

 

[Bad Obsession]

I think that the main reason that I posted it is to let people who come here browsing things know that it isn't just buying the boat. You have to calculate a lot of other factors into buying the boat. Boats are expensive. There is no way around that fact. You are not just buying a boat, you are buying a lifestyle.

 

[pateco]

I have been working on a FREE "Project boat" for 5 months, and have finally taken it sailing twice in the last month. There is still a lot to do, but it is getting there. Sweat equity can make up for a lot of lacking budget, but there are still parts needed, and always another project.

We have done a lot already. but are putting off some projects until it gets too hot to sail comfortably here late this summer. I have done the engine, stuffing box, minor electrical, running rigging, sails etc. I am half way through replacing the ports, (only 4 more to go), and I broke another Spinlock handle last Sunday (new handles on order). Once all ports replaced, and leaks fixed, I have some more woodwork to refinish.

I may have purchased the new sails too soon. Last weekend I had a choice of working on the new ports, or sailing, and of course I chose sailing.

We plan to haul again in August, when I will then sand buff and polish, and, if I haven't had to do it already, we will replace the Cutlass bearing.

So far the costs have still been much lower than buying a boat in similar condition, and I am enjoying the "projects".