A newer one in good condition would not have broken unless it was the weight of the whole boat on it. It is not hard to see the corrosion in the picture.
Replace all the rigging.
Cost of shroud on a 22ft sailboat?
- Thread starter Monaco
- Start date
Replace all the rigging.
I would also recommend Seco South. They have good quality materials at very reasonable prices. They may also have the original measurements. If they do not have the measurements you can give them your existing riggiing as a pattern.
I would recommend that you replace all of the standing rigging.
I would recommend that you replace all of the standing rigging.
A terminal is any end fitting. A swaged terminal describes the way it is attached to the wire... there are hand pressed swages(as in a hand swaging tool) and machine pressed swages. There are many types of swaged terminals, including: marine eyes, threaded studs, marine jaws, marine toggles... etc.
http://www.suncorstainless.com/swage-terminals-1
There are also "swageless" quick attach fittings such as Sta-lok and Navtec Norseman.
http://www.pyacht.com/norseman.htm
http://www.suncorstainless.com/swage-terminals-1
There are also "swageless" quick attach fittings such as Sta-lok and Navtec Norseman.
http://www.pyacht.com/norseman.htm
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Looks more dirty than corroded to me. I don't see much evidence that it bent before it snapped, which suggests that it might have been a bit brittle. But then I don't know what kind of load was applied to it. My boat has the original 1986 standing rigging, and I keep telling myself I need to replace it all before something breaks. If only money was no object...
Like many things in life, this is all about consequences. With the rigging configuration you have; if any of the wires were to fail, while sailing, the rig is most likely going to come down. This will not be on a gentle evening sail while you are drifting near the dock, with lots of help close at hand.
If the rigging is over 20 years old and has not spent the majority of it's life stored in a nice dry location, it is probably time to replace it. This applies to pretty much any rig. It could go longer but many people would not feel comfortable with rigging half that age. How old is the boat? Once again, it is about the consequences. Not only could you lose your mast and damage sails or other parts of the boat but someone could get seriously hurt.
Stainless steel is wonderful stuff but it does crack, corrode and become brittle when repeatedly worked. If you do decide to to only replace one wire, at least take a 10X lens and look at all the other fittings, very carefully on a regular basis. If money is a huge issue then maybe you could do the shrouds one year and the stays the next.
This might make for a good survey question. How old is your rigging wire? Or, have you ever had a rigging failure? I did have a main halyard, that looked to be in fine condition, fail one time. It let go at the spliced eye, which never showed any signs of a problem. The halyard hit the deck and the main sail followed it down. I was astounded. It happened in about the best possible situation and it was easily dealt with the next day but that would not have been the case if it was a part of the standing rigging, Steve.
If the rigging is over 20 years old and has not spent the majority of it's life stored in a nice dry location, it is probably time to replace it. This applies to pretty much any rig. It could go longer but many people would not feel comfortable with rigging half that age. How old is the boat? Once again, it is about the consequences. Not only could you lose your mast and damage sails or other parts of the boat but someone could get seriously hurt.
Stainless steel is wonderful stuff but it does crack, corrode and become brittle when repeatedly worked. If you do decide to to only replace one wire, at least take a 10X lens and look at all the other fittings, very carefully on a regular basis. If money is a huge issue then maybe you could do the shrouds one year and the stays the next.
This might make for a good survey question. How old is your rigging wire? Or, have you ever had a rigging failure? I did have a main halyard, that looked to be in fine condition, fail one time. It let go at the spliced eye, which never showed any signs of a problem. The halyard hit the deck and the main sail followed it down. I was astounded. It happened in about the best possible situation and it was easily dealt with the next day but that would not have been the case if it was a part of the standing rigging, Steve.
Replace all the standing rigging. If it makes you feel any better I am in the process of replacing all my 12 year old standing rigging. It looks way better than that photo. The last thing you want to determine is exactly how long your rigging will last while under sail. In your case, trailering the whole thing to a local rigger for inspection and quote would be a good option. They can then keep the rig, complete the replacement and hopefully provide a water location for re-install / tuning.
The wire should have pulled apart or even pulled out of the swage before it broke there... if it was in god shape, which it clearly wasnt.
It could of gotten water down into it and then corroded... probably froze thru a few winters...
And the other pieces of rigging will be in the same condition.
So you can pay a $150-200 to do it correctly now, and have some piece of mind that its in good shape, or probably pay $1000+ sometime soon to replace the entire standing rigging after it is no longer standing... and you may possibly get a serious injury thrown in to the deal just for the experiance of knowing when to replace the rigging....
I agree with Centerline.. My slightly jaundiced and slightly failure analysis trained eye says that most probably, the fitting had been damaged in exactly the same way some years ago. It may have been bent back straight, resulting in a small crack.. that crack continued to grow and this time when it caught, it cracked instead of bending.. Not 100% sure without looking at the fracture under a microscope, but would almost bet on that scenario. The rust stains tell me that the crack would occasionally ingest water by capillary action and cause a little more corrosion .. salt and/or bleach wash would hasten the process.
EDIT: Inspect all the terminals and if ya see any rust stains anywhere within 6" or so, ya have a problem.. This includes the chainplates.. as previously stated, a good rigger can help a lot with this process.
EDIT: Inspect all the terminals and if ya see any rust stains anywhere within 6" or so, ya have a problem.. This includes the chainplates.. as previously stated, a good rigger can help a lot with this process.
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i think he has only 6 stays in all and the size of them is not that big if you sent that info to SECO and asked for a price i would be surprised if you got a price of 250.00 to 325.00 its really not that big of a deal to just replace them and not have to worry every time you hoist a sail and it will not hurt to ask them
i have no connection with the vendor just think that they are they best source for your rigging needs and your pocket book basically one of the best deals in boating
i have no connection with the vendor just think that they are they best source for your rigging needs and your pocket book basically one of the best deals in boating
One Swage terminal 5/32" :
http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|118|2358509&id=2358511
1X19 Stainless wire 5/32":
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2078767|2079497&id=108039
That's 27' 17/8" - call it 30' X $1.38 = $41.40
There is additional cost of the upper terminal, which we don't know and for labor. Just the swages isn't very expensive but you'd better be sure of the lengths because if it's wrong you've just made a nice clothesline. If the rigger does the measuring expect to pay for his time and expertise (which is substantial.) But if it's wrong he'll replace it.
So in materials it's at least $60. Labor I'm guessing another $40 for two swages. And Shipping. If the rigger charges $100, it's a steal.
http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|118|2358509&id=2358511
1X19 Stainless wire 5/32":
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2078767|2079497&id=108039
That's 27' 17/8" - call it 30' X $1.38 = $41.40
There is additional cost of the upper terminal, which we don't know and for labor. Just the swages isn't very expensive but you'd better be sure of the lengths because if it's wrong you've just made a nice clothesline. If the rigger does the measuring expect to pay for his time and expertise (which is substantial.) But if it's wrong he'll replace it.
So in materials it's at least $60. Labor I'm guessing another $40 for two swages. And Shipping. If the rigger charges $100, it's a steal.
i just did a mock order for his boat and his rigging chart and came up with $176. 84
for the parts ...that will do all 6 of his shrouds and stays i have a copy of it but i will not post it ..am not sure if that is kosher ....like i said it wont cost much to replace all of them ....and it is 316 SS......your money and your boat ...as Stu Jackson says...your choice
for the parts ...that will do all 6 of his shrouds and stays i have a copy of it but i will not post it ..am not sure if that is kosher ....like i said it wont cost much to replace all of them ....and it is 316 SS......your money and your boat ...as Stu Jackson says...your choice
As a former sailboat dealer, I have used the following in your area for rigging.
1. Seco South, ask for Jean (Thank you for the suggestion Steve)
2. Johnson Sails (Dave Johnson)
3. Masthead Enterprises. (Paul)
Not sure if Dave Johnson is the right person at Johnson Sails but all three companies are well versed which I respect and trust.
1. Seco South, ask for Jean (Thank you for the suggestion Steve)
2. Johnson Sails (Dave Johnson)
3. Masthead Enterprises. (Paul)
Not sure if Dave Johnson is the right person at Johnson Sails but all three companies are well versed which I respect and trust.
I found a local guy named Mac McDonnell who calls himself McRigger and boy does he have a bad attitude. :cussing:
He came out to my slip, took the shroud and said it would be $55 and he'd be done in a couple days. Alas, 5 days go by and I'm leaving messages on his machine and sending him texts- so when he finally answers he says it's done, come pick it up, and it's $155.00 cash.
I politely asked him where the extra $100 dollars came from and he went into used-car salesman mode: "It's my service fee for coming out to you... Do people just come out to you for free and not charge a service call?!?". I told him I'm a mechanic and let my customers know upfront and he had to audacity to say "Well fast service don't come cheap and I did you a favor... Come pick your **** up" and hung up on me.
Now, I'm not saying $155 is a bad price, but fast service? Give me a break. I called another place and they quoted me $125 for same day service (granted, I had to take it to them), but McRigger took days longer AND on top of that, he made me pick it up! For $100, you'd think he'd drop it off.
He came out to my slip, took the shroud and said it would be $55 and he'd be done in a couple days. Alas, 5 days go by and I'm leaving messages on his machine and sending him texts- so when he finally answers he says it's done, come pick it up, and it's $155.00 cash.
I politely asked him where the extra $100 dollars came from and he went into used-car salesman mode: "It's my service fee for coming out to you... Do people just come out to you for free and not charge a service call?!?". I told him I'm a mechanic and let my customers know upfront and he had to audacity to say "Well fast service don't come cheap and I did you a favor... Come pick your **** up" and hung up on me.
Now, I'm not saying $155 is a bad price, but fast service? Give me a break. I called another place and they quoted me $125 for same day service (granted, I had to take it to them), but McRigger took days longer AND on top of that, he made me pick it up! For $100, you'd think he'd drop it off.
I'll stand with my original advice. You still have the other shroud to take to someone, reputable, and have all the rigging made up. From your description, Mac is just the kind of guy you were trying to avoid when you first posted here. You got some great advise and references from people on here and then chose Mac. There must be a lesson here and so far it will only cost you $155.00 if you go that way, Steve.
Woodster gave you the name of a good rigging shop whom I have known Jean and Ken with Seco South for over 30 years. Also, Johnson sails is a rig shop and one other to mention, Moorehouse Sails. All three are in your area and can make anything in the rigging. As for sails, Seco South does not sell sails.
Don't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but some recommendations for Riggers are being made, so Joe can I ask you where you would send me for standing rigging in San Diego? I am comparing prices for C-22, shop local or just buy from CD? (to clarify I mean rigging supply, I can do my own rigging work (install), but for terminations I don't have the machine press!
A terminal is any end fitting. A swaged terminal describes the way it is attached to the wire... there are hand pressed swages(as in a hand swaging tool) and machine pressed swages. There are many types of swaged terminals, including: marine eyes, threaded studs, marine jaws, marine toggles... etc.
http://www.suncorstainless.com/swage-terminals-1
There are also "swageless" quick attach fittings such as Sta-lok and Navtec Norseman.
http://www.pyacht.com/norseman.htm
Don't really have a San Diego referral.. I'm sure there are plenty of sources.... but let me suggest this: go to this site https://www.riggingandhardware.com/c-642-standing-rigging.aspx and price out your own rigging.
Start with your terminal requirements... For example, on my Cat 27 I have a headstay, backstay, 2 cap shrouds using 3/16 wire, and 4 lowers using 5/32 wire. So I need 4 marine eyes and 4 threaded studs @ 3/16, and 4 of the same in 5/32.
Rigging only sells the swaged eye terminals for $8.82 - 3/16, $7.14 - 5/32. The studs are around $8.80 to 9.50.
Rigging only's swage fitting assembly charge for 5/32 - 3/16 wire is $7.50 per.
They also sell 3/16 1x19 stainless wire 304 is .98/ft.
So a 32 ft cap shroud on my boat will cost around $18 for the fittings, about $32 for the wire and $15 to machine swage the terminals to the wire... that's about $65 plus shipping.
So, now you have a base to work with and you can make the decision to have the pieces built locally or order online. Most rigging shops will suggest you bring in your rigging and they will simply duplicate it.. then you don't have to do any measuring at all. Since your Cat 22 makes it easy to do that...that is what I would suggest..
Have fun, good luck.
Start with your terminal requirements... For example, on my Cat 27 I have a headstay, backstay, 2 cap shrouds using 3/16 wire, and 4 lowers using 5/32 wire. So I need 4 marine eyes and 4 threaded studs @ 3/16, and 4 of the same in 5/32.
Rigging only sells the swaged eye terminals for $8.82 - 3/16, $7.14 - 5/32. The studs are around $8.80 to 9.50.
Rigging only's swage fitting assembly charge for 5/32 - 3/16 wire is $7.50 per.
They also sell 3/16 1x19 stainless wire 304 is .98/ft.
So a 32 ft cap shroud on my boat will cost around $18 for the fittings, about $32 for the wire and $15 to machine swage the terminals to the wire... that's about $65 plus shipping.
So, now you have a base to work with and you can make the decision to have the pieces built locally or order online. Most rigging shops will suggest you bring in your rigging and they will simply duplicate it.. then you don't have to do any measuring at all. Since your Cat 22 makes it easy to do that...that is what I would suggest..
Have fun, good luck.
Well, Tampa's a very strange place and whenever there's a holiday, they like to take that entire week off, so what happened was I already had a crew scheduled to sail on Jan 3rd, but SECO, SSMR, Paradise and Island Nautical all decided to turn Christmas and New Years into a 3-week vacation and being that Mac has no friends, he was the only one available.
We have this thing called Gasparilla next Sat and TONS OF BOATS will be one the water for this staged pirate invasion, and for whatever reason, half of the marine shops are closed this week! You'd think that this would be an opportunity to make $$$$ but liked, it's Tampa...