Cost of owning a C-310

[Sky Cruiser]

Hi,
I'm hoping someone here is an accountant or maybe just really likes crunching numbers. I realize this is a subjective question with many variables, but I'm just trying to get a ballpark idea of an annual budget for ownership for this particular boat. I've owned mid 30's ranges power cruisers with twin gas guzzlers, so I'm no stranger to the concept of a boat being a hole in the water.....etc, etc...$. This however, will be our first family sailboat.

My local marina will charge me $620/mo (which includes electrical, fresh water line, wifi, etc.), and the boat will be in the water the entire year here in south Florida. But that's the only fixed cost I know of right now. The boat will not be financed, so my cost in addition to the marina fees will be more operational, insurance, registration/documentation, fuel/oil, and maintenance (including monthly bottom care and painting about every 2 years), and occasional exterior cleaning/detailing. What else?

For the purposes of this discussion, I'm not considering any provisioning costs (the wine my wife likes is tough enough!), or destination costs (mooring or overnighting, etc). We'll figure those potential costs out later. So let's just say average use for us based on previous experience will be maybe 2 weekends/month more or less of local coastal cruising. We are only about 10 minutes to the ocean inlet, so no long motoring needs generally speaking (although I know there will be times when we get caught out with light winds or need to beat a storm in).

Let's also assume that at the time of purchase, the boat, rigging and sail sets are in good condition. In other words, no major problems or projects anticipated for the first year at least, but general maintenance and upkeep cost will be expected.

Any thoughts? Anyone ever averaged out their ownership costs?

Thanks!
Chris

 

[Calif. Ted]

Topside wash every 2 weeks $70/month
Bottom Cleaning $45/month
Zincs about $5 to $10 per month
Property Tax here is about 1% or $750 per year for $75,000 boat
fuel about $65 a year
Registration here is $20 per year
Detail and wax exterior $400 to $500
Bottom paint (about every 3/4 years) $1300
Oil and filters annually probably $100 in parts if you DIY
Insurance varies by region mine about $700, yours will be more, we don't get no hurricanes

 

[Calif. Ted]

A greater problem in trying to develop a boat budget are the unanticipated costs, my boat is a 2002 I've had for 4 years, had low hours when I bought it.
This week I'll be replacing the leaking water heater I discovered last week $300, since buying the boat:
Rebuilt bilge pump $35, Rebuilt leaking Racor filter $35, new macerator pump $125, new head and hoses $350, new salon floor $300 in materials & 5 days labor, new carpet in aft cabin $100, pedestal and mainsail covers $600, replaced water tank valves $20 2 man hours, refinished hatch boards, companionway steps, teak pieces around companionway $60 materials, 4 days labor, Welding repair on companionway ladder $25, replaced cracked instrument pod $95 and labor, replaced galley fluorescent light $45, replace key switch and main engine fuse holder $50 and 1 day labor, rebed chainplates $50 and it takes me 4/5 days, replaced cracked shower sump strainer $25, replace cracked manual bilge pump cover $25, replace various cabinet latches $50, etc.
Some stuff I do for appearances and my OCD, Replaced crazed cabintop hatch $200 (half price, I scored a new one for less than repair), replaced crazed portlight lens 4@ $95, replaced rubrail insert $150 and 1 day labor, remove and replace cove stripe $55 and 2 days labor.
I've probably forgotten half and I didn't mean to be a wet blanket just want you to know ahead of time that just like a house "stuff happens", if I put a value to my labor I couldn't afford me to repair my boat.

 

[Stu Jackson]

...if I put a value to my labor I couldn't afford me to repair my boat.

Absolutely!

Dodger: $3500.

Always engine work: raw water pump, buy new $300, repair and replace seals yourself: $10. Don't do it? Either a brand new oil pan or a new engine: $7,000!

Nigel Calder's Boatowners Manual for Mechanical & Electrical Best $50 you can spend on your boat.

Really, it's hard to budget for these kind of things, but you have a pretty good list from these answers. Don't overthink this.

 

[SimiSAilor]

Chris,
I bought my 310 a month ago today, hull 164. My boat had been sitting since 2006 and has had zero maintenance done, and little use in that time. I knew I was in for a project, but the boat was priced accordingly. First thing is get a good survey, do not use anyone recommended by the seller or his broker. I am still finding things that should have been caught on survey or sea trial.
I have replaced EVERY hose connected to the engine and have rebuilt the macerator, replaced the bilge and engine raw water pump. changed all the fluids and on and on......
For a clean boat plan on spending 5% of the price in the first month getting the boat to your liking, if it is rough plan on 10%. I have done everything my self except for the genoa repair.
Your slip sounds expensive, and I am used to high So Cal prices. They get me for about 340$ with water and power.
I budget 100$ a month for tax and insurance, put another 50 in for bottom cleaning and at least 200 for bottom paint and surprises.
Love the boat and she will be in bristol condition soon. One really must not be afraid to do it yourself in this game, would not be here if I had to pay for labor.
I would plan on a few major problems and projects in the first few months, that is how you learn about your new boat. Trust me on that.........
Good luck,
Jeff

 

[Stu Jackson]

Good advice. Another thing: Get to KNOW, really, really KNOW the website of your boat. This forum has a very good group of skippers with tons of knowledge.

Read it all, then read it again a few more times. Then yet again. Get the drift? You knever know when you'll be somewhere, all by your lonely, no cell phone access, but you'll have an "issue" and suddenly, this lttle lightbulb will go off over your head (undoubtedly an LED!) and you'll remember reading about it and wil fix it in four nanoseconds, instead of calling for a tow!

Happened to me...

We also have a ton of engine info over on our C34 tech wiki, linked frequently in the C310 section of this forum.

Welcome aboard.

 

[Sky Cruiser]

Gents, Thanks for all the great replies.

Ted, those numbers are great, minus the property tax (we don't have that issue on boats here which is why so many liveaboards in FL). Insurance isn't that bad, even with hurricanes.. Ironically, boats generally do better than homes in these storms! But I'll have to ask my ins agent about that. The marina costs here are high, but this is one of the best "social" marinas in the area, and the ONLY one right next to the ocean inlet. I could always rent a private dock for $10/foot, but then would have to deal with homeowner's issues.

Jeff, congrats on your new boat! Sounds like you're enjoying the refit process after so many years of non use. Good luck! I'm hoping to eventually find one a little more "turn key", if possible. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you found out, there are not many for sale compared to say the 320. Many are cross country from me and I really don't want to pay for ground transporting more than a 1000 miles or so.

Stu, I completely agree that there is a wealth of info here and on other forums as well. This thread is proof of that! And as for the DIY items, I don't mind getting my hands dirty, and have changed my share of pumps, filters, impellers, risers, etc on previous boats. I'll do some general maintenance and save where I can, and leave the big stuff for the pros.

Anyhow, while surprises always pop up at the most inopportune times, these are great base numbers to get a general idea. Thanks so much! Hoping to join the C-310 owners ranks in the near future. We really love the layout of this boat!

Thanks again!
Chris

 

[KZW]

I purchased my 2005 C-310, No 307, in 17 Jul 14. Boat is in NW Florida. I’m the third owner. I’m keeping a spreadsheet of all costs:

- Marine Survey $600
- Haul Out for Survey $345
- Anchor Chain, 90 ft G4 $462 (for storm anchor)
- Dock Box $600
- Dock Lines, Jib Sheet Track Cleats,
Main Fairlead/Cleat,
Anchor Rode (5/8, 150 ft) $737 (rode for storm anchor)
- Filters for Engine $150
- Ronca – 20 Anchor
(45 lbs for storm anchor) $429 (storm anchor)
- Bottom Paint (ablative, two coats,
incl haul out)
also, gel coat repair, blister fixes $2790
- Boat US Insurance $1189
- Yearly slip fee $1569
- More dock lines $80
- More filters, belt, etc $50
- Stuffing box wrenches, cord, installation $90
Marina maintenance help to move the nuts
- Y-Valve from Catalina
(under the head vanity) $45
- A/C raw water screen $15
- TBD, a spare impeller for the Sherwood pump ???
- Zincs (pencil zinc and prop zincs) $45
- Fuel $25

The storm anchor, chain, and rode was my #1 priority. I just knew there would be a hurricane the day I docked the boat at my local marina and I wanted to be ready. The weather has been great, the anchor, chain, and rode live in the dock box and have not been touched.

Second priority was having multiple filters on hand, in the boat, with the tools to install them. I carried them, with the tools, when I picked up the boat. I’m deficient on carrying a spare raw water impeller and I plan to get on that next week

When I bought the boat the fuel tank was 7/8 full and the water tanks were full. I’ve not yet run out of water and I purchased 5 gallons of diesel. The diesel tank says is it just over ½ full after 37.5 hours of run time. I’m not sure I trust the fuel gauge. I’ve spent 68 hours on the water (yes, I keep a log on a spreadsheet). That includes a two-day trip motoring from Alabama to NW Florida after purchase, including anchoring out overnight. It was an adventure as this is my first keel boat.

I plan on an Oberdorfer raw water pump to replace the Sherwood as a future project. What puts me off is the need to cut the flange and relocate a mounting hole

I may replace the WC Headmate head in the future, but for now, a new joker valve is working, and I can live with the poor performance of the HM pump for a while.

I’d really like an asymmetrical spinnaker, with douser, but don’t think that will ever happen. It will take serious negotiation with the spouse.

Local cost for bottom cleaning is $2.50 per foot. I borrowed a friend’s hookah and did my bottom for the first time last weekend. It took 75 minutes, from breaking out the hookah, until the job was finished and everything packed to depart the dock. There were no barnacles and the slime build up came off readily with the gentle wipe of a scotch bright pad. I was in the water for 35 minutes to clean the hull and add a second zinc to the prop shaft. I’m considering buying an A/C hookah system which will run around $1200. I figure it will pay for itself in two years.

BTW, when you change the fuel and oil filters, clean up from the mess, and then forget to open the valves on the fuel tank, the M-25 XPE will run for exactly 10 minutes – just enough time to get away from the dock and clear the marina. I strongly suggest making checklists (I did) and using them (I didn’t).

The boat is beautiful. I've looked for a sailboat for a long time and figured it was now or never. The C-310 has everything I was seeking. We’ve cleaned it up (more work than expected). It is very comfortable, both in the cockpit and below. I’m learning the systems, - slowly. It is a piece of cake to sail and the spouse and I have enjoyed every minute on the water. I competed in the local club single-handed race yesterday. There were 26 boats. It was a huge success; I didn’t hit another boat, I didn’t violate any rules of racing, I didn’t break anything, and I didn’t put any blood on the deck. I wasn’t last! It is worth every penny we’ve spent on it.

Mine will be in the water year round. I plan on placing an electric heater and dehumidifier in the boat. I’ve been running the A/C at the dock in the heat of the summer.

This forum is a gold mine of information!!!!!!

 

[Long Story]

Boy, you got a lot of great feedback with nice breakdowns... makes me almost embarrassed to give my answer, but I might as well add in also. I have kept spreadsheets for years as I have owned different Catalina Sailboats. I'm up north here in Wisconsin, was in Michigan prior. Like you there is no payment on the boat, but I do have winter storage and shrink-wrap to contend with. Numbers are pretty consistent year to year, even with upgrades because each year seems to have something different on my 2001 C-310. Budget number is $4,000.00 all in. Dock, travel, (not food or meals) maint, upgrades. As a comparison same yearly cost on my C42 was $5,600.00 year.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

So my main input is use, location and your abilities. For use, it depends if you are going to be a weekend warrior/occasional racer or longer range cruiser/liveaboard. Some of the items will change significantly depending on that use issue (see my numbers below). Dockage is dockage and it all depends on where you are. Probably not the best thing to include in if you are comparing the cost of ownership vs. another boat because you have to dock them both unless you are trying to decide between at 31 footer and a 35 footer. And then for your abilities, how much work to you plan to do yourself? For instance I do all my own work with the help of forums such as this. If you plan to pay someone to do the work the cost will go up a lot.

Here are some of my costs.

My annual cost is about $575 not including upgrades, major repairs, insurance or dockage. This covers the basic maintenance items. The breakdown is attached.

For major repairs, we have done the following: raw water pump upgrade ($300), clean and restiching the UV shield on the genny ($400), dampener plate ($200), motor mounts ($826), PSS dripless adapter, ($244), new shaft and split coupling ($150), cutlass bearing ($60), dodger restiching, zipper replacement and window replacement ($850), replaced engine hoses and hose clamps with AWD style ($400) and some other misc projects that probably total $500. The costs I provided only include the parts except for the restiching that was done by local shops.

We are now full-time liveaboards with the plan to leave to go cruising next year with the Bahamas and Caribbean as our planned destination. So I have been making some extensive upgrades related to that use. The cost of which is now approaching $22,000. But I would not being doing most of these if it wasn't for our plan. Also a fair amount of that money was safety equipment and a new dingy that we would take with us to the next boat. You can see the list and write-ups on our blog. If we were just weekend warrior we would be fine with the annual maintenance and some of the major repair items listed above.

Hope this helps.

Good luck,

Jesse

 

[Alansails]

Congratulations, Owning a 310 is worth it!.. That said, I will say the other contributors have done a great job of trying to put numbers down. Some items we have done and you will do, like stitching the sail, you would do as normal maintenance, Oil Changes etc., so that would not be bigger than others, a new sail cost would be bigger than a Catalina 22. There is a FUN,safety, retirement Boat factor that you cannot put a dollar fiqure on. When we bought our 310 it is a safer boat, more stable and we are able to cruise/sail longer distances in comfort. Cruising dockage is more expensive and finding that all our friends/dockmates want to have sundowners aboard our boat because we have a great cockpit is exciting! but worth it... rigging will be more expensive but again something you would normally replace on any boat if it is bad. I would go along with what the others have said, you would pay for a dock and insurance and that is a normal expense. Just remember the fun factor..and besides you cannot take it with you!

 

[Sky Cruiser]

Hard to thank all of you individually for your inputs. These are some great numbers for me to go on and much more detailed than I was expecting. Yes, this is a great forum with some very helpful folks. But don't congratulate me just yet, as it will probably be several more months before we purchase (too many holiday plans upcoming before I can devote attention to traveling and searching out a boat). That said, I'm eager to do the "due diligence" of researching ahead of time.

As I mentioned, boat ownership is not new to us, and we've owned our share of motor boats good and bad over the years. My wife and are relatively new to sailing and my son wants to learn next summer. We absolutely love it and only wonder now what took us so long to get into it. Anyhow, so most of my maintenance understanding is limited to engines and electrical systems. But I realize too, that sails and rigging can ring up the costs also. I'll be doing a lot of the general work myself which I actually enjoy most of the time anyway, so that will save some costs, but mainly because I just like doing things.

Agree on the marina costs as it relates to cost of ownership. That's kind of a fixed cost for any boat of similar size. In fact, the $620/mo figure is for any boat 30-35'. It would drop to $550 I think for under 30, but that would be too small for our needs, as anything over 32 is more boat than I want for now. I don't see much, if any, racing. There is a local club that we'll probably join, but mostly we'll just be coastal cruising and weekend overnighting.

Anyhow, I can't thank you all enough, but I will again anyway. Thank you & safe and happy sailing!

Cheers!,
Chris

 

[Long Story]

My 2015 Yearly cost just doubled - the Admiral has decided to let me purchase new sails over the winter..... :dance: She said it will keep me from shopping for a new boat.... I said, look the cost is about the same as our "Power Boat" friends are complaining they paid in fuel this season... :cussing:

 

[Sky Cruiser]

Long Story,

I bet the power boaters spend even more than that. Friend of mine just took a weekend trip to Key Largo on his 36 Sea Ray. It's about a half day cruise from here - maybe 5 hours or so at 20kts. He went down, tooled around the island a bit and came back three days later. Fuel bill was $920 plus he came home with port engine overheating! I told him it might take me an extra day of fun sailing there and back, but I probably wouldn't spend more than $50 in gas doing it. Not to mention almost tripple the engine maintenance for a twin engine boat plus generator (been there and done that!).

Good luck with the new sail set. Where do you go for that?

Chris

 

[Long Story]

Chris,

I believe it on the cost. Many years ago I had a 34 Chris twin, since then I have owned 5 Catalina's... would never go back to power that is for sure. I had a couple two slips over that spent 2 weeks on Lake Mich this summer, they covered over 350 km during that time, and figured they spent $ 1, 617.00 in that two week's alone. Your right, they have twins to deal with, everyone seems to have a gen set, and more systems.

Looks like I am getting my sails from The Sail Store - FX Sails

Russ

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Sky,

Here's a simple formula on boat costs, not counting slip fees.

You owned powerboats in mid 30's range & your wanting a sailboat in the mid 30's.
I assume you have kept records of costs, maintenance, repairs, upgrades etc, right minus fuel costs. So simply go back five years if recordkeeping is good. Add this up & divide by 5for your yearly average.

A sailboat of comparable size will, at the end of five years be very close to what your costs were for the powerboat. The only difference I see, is that a sailboat needs less in big money year by year. But if you look at this 5 years down the road, you may be talking about replacing sails, rigging, hardware etc. which is a bigger $$.

If owning a powerboat did not shy you away, a sailboat should present the same in costs over time if less depending on condition. Sure there are alot of variables but, you have that now.

I'm but a poor sailor in Florida but, $650.00/month for a slip........OUCH. It better be gated & guarded & they wash your boat weekly, not to mention an "open bar".

CR

 

[SawyerCurt]

...$650.00/month for a slip........OUCH. It better be gated & guarded & they wash your boat weekly, not to mention an "open bar".

CR

That is comparable to what I paid here in the Northeast for a slip 2 years ago (Catalina 34), although here we only have about a 6 month sailing season. But if I take my bill from that season and divide by six I get roughly $650. And that pier was ungated, no washing, and no open bar. It did include power and water.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Saw,

For myself, I would look around for a better-priced slip.
I am not in your area so as for location, the amenities I cannot speak much of. That seems a bit high for my taste, but if that is market price, you may be stuck with that.

As long as you are happy with your home berth, I wish you well pal.............

CR

 

[Sky Cruiser]

Saw, For myself, I would look around for a better-priced slip. I am not in your area so as for location, the amenities I cannot speak much of. That seems a bit high for my taste, but if that is market price, you may be stuck with that. As long as you are happy with your home berth, I wish you well pal............. CR

Unfortunately, that is the going rate for a marina with instant ocean access around here. I could go father south along the ICW, but then would have to deal with long slow motorings, draw bridges and weekend warriors screaming up and down the narrow channels - no thanks. It's worth the extra cost just to be able to motor out in 10 min and set the sails.

Another option is private home dockage at $10-12/ft ($ depending on how close to the inlet they are), plus any electrical charges which could be as much as $50 if you run a/c or dehumidifier. So could be anything from $360 to $420 for this boat. They also generally don't want you relaxing and having cocktails in the cockpit after a day of cruising - "just pack it up and go home please, take your trash with you and try to be a little more quiet next time. Oh and could you not park so close to the grass?"). They are not all like that of course, but I've had some interesting experiences. Again - no thanks!

At the marina, no open bar, but a pretty darn good one. Live music Wednesday - Saturday, lots of "happy hour social" boaters and liveaboards. Security is excellent, and as for the wash downs, they are are free (as long as I'm holding the brush and hose). So it's not perfect, and it is a bit more expensive, but for now we're okay with it.

Made me wonder though. I go up to San Francisco for my job often and with my free time I usually rent a bike and ride from the wharf area, up over the GG bridge and up to Tiburon. While waiting the ferry trip back, I usually grab a beer at one of the bars around the Tiburon Marina while watching boats sailing around. Anyone know what a slip costs there? I'm always afraid to ask! The San Francisco marina for that matter too! Just curios.

Cheers! Chris

 

[Stu Jackson]

...around the Tiburon Marina while watching boats sailing around. Anyone know what a slip costs there? I'm always afraid to ask! The San Francisco marina for that matter to! Just curios.

Cheers!
Chris

http://schoonmakermarina.com/berthing.html

Click on rates, see the pdf