Hello Boaters, I am negotiating the price on a Catalina 30 built in 1978. There are a number of deficiencies that I want to confirm the repair costs of. Any help would be appreciated. I have another child on the way and I got to make sure that I don't underestimate the repair costs of the boat. Here is what is needed: Propellor (present one is too large and hits hull) bilge pump 4 deck delaminations (material needs to be injected between the delaminated fiberglass on the deck) wind instruments(wind speed,direction are broken etc.) anchor lazarette hatch replacement(cracked) leaking stuffing box (at standstill) throttle cable (sheared) rusted keel bolts unoperable sewage seacock metal spreaders needed to replace the wooden ones stainless steel shaft to drive the prop Dodger (boat does not have one) autopilot new deck hardware (jam cleats etc.) If any of you Catalina owners can tell me the costs of the above items and perhaps even the labour costs involved, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Alan
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Marc P
Upgrade
Alan, Sounds like the boat needs lots of work. I've done some of the upgrades and have listed approximate prices in USD below New Dodger $1000 to $1200 New Bilge Pump (Switch Hoses Pump Etc) $100parts I did my own installation. New 3 Blade prop ~ $500 New Wind Instrument ~ $650 Have you checked the engine out carefully? Could be a lot of hidden costs there if it was not maintained properly. Marc
Alan, Sounds like the boat needs lots of work. I've done some of the upgrades and have listed approximate prices in USD below New Dodger $1000 to $1200 New Bilge Pump (Switch Hoses Pump Etc) $100parts I did my own installation. New 3 Blade prop ~ $500 New Wind Instrument ~ $650 Have you checked the engine out carefully? Could be a lot of hidden costs there if it was not maintained properly. Marc
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Paul
It all adds up quickly...
Hi Alan, I am just about finished refurbishing my 80 c30. I took all interior wood out and refinished, replaced/rebuilt the plumbing system, new running rigging, rebuilt instruments, replaced some of the engine assecories, rebuilt the engine control panel, and on and on and on it has gone.... Besides plenty of money, remember this is all going to take alot of time. I bought my boat very cheap so I don't feel too bad about the money I've spent. However, my estimate up front was too low. You will always find items that need to be replaced/fixed as you get into this type project. Then once you have things put together fairly well, then the normal maintenance stuff comes up as you have to fix little things along the way. I would take the estimate of what you come up with and double that amount of money at least...for the true indication of what you'll probably end up spending. As for time, it always seems to take for ever just to fix anything on the boat. It just isn't in your garage where you have all your tools, etc. If you love to work on projects like this and have lots of time and plenty of money, it is a very rewarding project. I have enjoyed my experience and now the payoff is coming thru with great weekends at the boat sailing and having cookouts, etc at the docks. Some costs estimates.... All new running hardware could cost $1000 for some new blocks and sheets. I have purchased some Garhauer kits to replace my main sheet system, geneoa cars and travelers blocks. This was about $350. New traveler system, new boom vang, etc adds more and more to the costs. I have yet to buy the new sheets. This will be around $300 for basic, non racing type sheets. The spreader kit I assume would be $300-400. BUt I am not sure. Luckily mine was already upgraded by the previous owner. However, I think you'll have to pull the boat out of the water and drop the mast. Again, I haven't done this but I think you need to drop the mast. The costs to pull the boat can be $300. Crane to lift mast, $100. Daily storage at marina till work is done...$30/day. Also, what about the bottom of the boat?? Is a bottom job in the future? Are there any blisters?? I think that's enough from me. Good luck with your decision. Paul
Hi Alan, I am just about finished refurbishing my 80 c30. I took all interior wood out and refinished, replaced/rebuilt the plumbing system, new running rigging, rebuilt instruments, replaced some of the engine assecories, rebuilt the engine control panel, and on and on and on it has gone.... Besides plenty of money, remember this is all going to take alot of time. I bought my boat very cheap so I don't feel too bad about the money I've spent. However, my estimate up front was too low. You will always find items that need to be replaced/fixed as you get into this type project. Then once you have things put together fairly well, then the normal maintenance stuff comes up as you have to fix little things along the way. I would take the estimate of what you come up with and double that amount of money at least...for the true indication of what you'll probably end up spending. As for time, it always seems to take for ever just to fix anything on the boat. It just isn't in your garage where you have all your tools, etc. If you love to work on projects like this and have lots of time and plenty of money, it is a very rewarding project. I have enjoyed my experience and now the payoff is coming thru with great weekends at the boat sailing and having cookouts, etc at the docks. Some costs estimates.... All new running hardware could cost $1000 for some new blocks and sheets. I have purchased some Garhauer kits to replace my main sheet system, geneoa cars and travelers blocks. This was about $350. New traveler system, new boom vang, etc adds more and more to the costs. I have yet to buy the new sheets. This will be around $300 for basic, non racing type sheets. The spreader kit I assume would be $300-400. BUt I am not sure. Luckily mine was already upgraded by the previous owner. However, I think you'll have to pull the boat out of the water and drop the mast. Again, I haven't done this but I think you need to drop the mast. The costs to pull the boat can be $300. Crane to lift mast, $100. Daily storage at marina till work is done...$30/day. Also, what about the bottom of the boat?? Is a bottom job in the future? Are there any blisters?? I think that's enough from me. Good luck with your decision. Paul
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Steve Franklin
"Project boat"
Several questions: Is the boat out of the water now? Did you have it surveyed yet? If the boat is in as rough shape as it sounds like, what about the engine itself? Condition of the sails? The boat sounds like it has been thoroughly neglected. That could be a mixed blessing, though. If you are mentally, physically and financially ready to take on a major refit, go for it! If you like that kind of thing, it should be a blast. I'm in the middle of several serious projects on my C30 and am like a kid in a candy shop. How much time and $$ for your C30 is a good question. The best answer would come from a surveyor who gives you a list of ALL discrepancies. Then go to your local chandlery for parts prices and to your local canvas shop, marine engine repair shop, rigger, fiberglass repair guy, etc, and ask for bids. They're the experts and could give you a real good materials cost, but labor (time) for them sure doesn't equal the time for me, or probably you, either. (Steep learning curve!!) If you want to give me a call, I'd be glad to talk to you. My boat is a 79, hull 1444. Send your phone number to stevfran@earthlink.net
Several questions: Is the boat out of the water now? Did you have it surveyed yet? If the boat is in as rough shape as it sounds like, what about the engine itself? Condition of the sails? The boat sounds like it has been thoroughly neglected. That could be a mixed blessing, though. If you are mentally, physically and financially ready to take on a major refit, go for it! If you like that kind of thing, it should be a blast. I'm in the middle of several serious projects on my C30 and am like a kid in a candy shop. How much time and $$ for your C30 is a good question. The best answer would come from a surveyor who gives you a list of ALL discrepancies. Then go to your local chandlery for parts prices and to your local canvas shop, marine engine repair shop, rigger, fiberglass repair guy, etc, and ask for bids. They're the experts and could give you a real good materials cost, but labor (time) for them sure doesn't equal the time for me, or probably you, either. (Steep learning curve!!) If you want to give me a call, I'd be glad to talk to you. My boat is a 79, hull 1444. Send your phone number to stevfran@earthlink.net
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Allen Schweitzer
Baby on the way? Get one in better shape.
Alan, I, too, finished a major overhaul of my 1977 C-30. Many of the projects you're describing are ones that I've tackled, as well. As others have said, money is going to be a big issue, but so is the time. While I was restoring my boat I was unmarried, without kids, and I rented (no house work/yard work to do) and I still had difficulty finding time to do all of the things I needed to. I can't imagine what it would be like with a wife & new born. The main question, in my mind, is "Why?". Why would you purchase a boat that you won't be able to sail until you've spend many months working on it? Maybe you're getting it for under $9k, or maybe you really enjoy working on boats. If that's the case, then go for it. Otherwise, I'd look for a boat that's in better shape. I thought I was getting a FANTASTIC deal on my C-30 that was neglected. As I look back, I realize a got only a good deal, and I also spent about 8 months working on the darn thing. (I did most of the work myself). The good news is that all major systems on the boat are brand new. The bad news is that, after all of the time & cost I probably would have had a much better quality of life if I had only bought a boat that was in better shape to begin with. The money for a pristine boat would be the same as my boat + all of the upgrades, but the TIME factor would have been much better. I wouldn't mind having those 8 months back. At the end of the day, I'd encourage you to take some advice that's already been posted. Take all of your estimates & double them. Believe it or not, that's about what it's going to cost. I estimate that the total cost of your repairs should run around $5800 to $6000. That's just for parts & supplies, and that assumes you're doing all of the labor. There are a few items you've listed that could lead to more work, especially the deck delamination & keel bolts. What if you're deck core is rotted? What if there aren't enough solid threads on your keel studs? That would mean a LOT more work on your part, and you're not going to know until you get in there & start tearing things apart. If you take the cost of the boat (Let's say $11k) + $5800 for parts + another $4500 for those "surprises" + about 6 months worth of weekends, is it worth it? I'm showing you're going to end up spending about $21,300 when it's all said & done. If you go to www.yachtworld.com & search for C-30's in that price range, I'm sure you'll find many in very good condition. As for me, my boat has all NEW: Yanmar 2GM20F diesel, prop, prop shaft, dripless shaft seal, rudder, spreaders, steering cables/quadrant, autopilot, 150% genoa, inflatable + outboard, safety equipment (flares, life vests, etc.), fresh water pump, BBQ grill, dock lines + more. If I were to sell it, I probably wouldn't be able to get more than $23k for it, maybe less. Getting back to that "Why?" question...Why would you put yourself through all of the work & risk of the unknown if you don't have to? If you like working on a boat as much as sailing it, then you might be able to save a few bucks & still enjoy it. Me? I like sailing. And with a new born on the way, it might be tough to find the time to do even that! Just my 2 cents. If you want to email me offline to ask some more questions, please do so at: allens@mathworks.com Either way, Good Luck! Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 Hull# 632
Alan, I, too, finished a major overhaul of my 1977 C-30. Many of the projects you're describing are ones that I've tackled, as well. As others have said, money is going to be a big issue, but so is the time. While I was restoring my boat I was unmarried, without kids, and I rented (no house work/yard work to do) and I still had difficulty finding time to do all of the things I needed to. I can't imagine what it would be like with a wife & new born. The main question, in my mind, is "Why?". Why would you purchase a boat that you won't be able to sail until you've spend many months working on it? Maybe you're getting it for under $9k, or maybe you really enjoy working on boats. If that's the case, then go for it. Otherwise, I'd look for a boat that's in better shape. I thought I was getting a FANTASTIC deal on my C-30 that was neglected. As I look back, I realize a got only a good deal, and I also spent about 8 months working on the darn thing. (I did most of the work myself). The good news is that all major systems on the boat are brand new. The bad news is that, after all of the time & cost I probably would have had a much better quality of life if I had only bought a boat that was in better shape to begin with. The money for a pristine boat would be the same as my boat + all of the upgrades, but the TIME factor would have been much better. I wouldn't mind having those 8 months back. At the end of the day, I'd encourage you to take some advice that's already been posted. Take all of your estimates & double them. Believe it or not, that's about what it's going to cost. I estimate that the total cost of your repairs should run around $5800 to $6000. That's just for parts & supplies, and that assumes you're doing all of the labor. There are a few items you've listed that could lead to more work, especially the deck delamination & keel bolts. What if you're deck core is rotted? What if there aren't enough solid threads on your keel studs? That would mean a LOT more work on your part, and you're not going to know until you get in there & start tearing things apart. If you take the cost of the boat (Let's say $11k) + $5800 for parts + another $4500 for those "surprises" + about 6 months worth of weekends, is it worth it? I'm showing you're going to end up spending about $21,300 when it's all said & done. If you go to www.yachtworld.com & search for C-30's in that price range, I'm sure you'll find many in very good condition. As for me, my boat has all NEW: Yanmar 2GM20F diesel, prop, prop shaft, dripless shaft seal, rudder, spreaders, steering cables/quadrant, autopilot, 150% genoa, inflatable + outboard, safety equipment (flares, life vests, etc.), fresh water pump, BBQ grill, dock lines + more. If I were to sell it, I probably wouldn't be able to get more than $23k for it, maybe less. Getting back to that "Why?" question...Why would you put yourself through all of the work & risk of the unknown if you don't have to? If you like working on a boat as much as sailing it, then you might be able to save a few bucks & still enjoy it. Me? I like sailing. And with a new born on the way, it might be tough to find the time to do even that! Just my 2 cents. If you want to email me offline to ask some more questions, please do so at: allens@mathworks.com Either way, Good Luck! Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 Hull# 632
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Eric Ludin
I've done some of those.
I have had an 83 Cat 30 about a year and a half and have done a few of those jobs. I bought a new bildge pump from West Marine for about $70. I replaced the prop shaft with stainless steel for about $150. The deck delams cost about $50 each to repair. The leaking stuffing box may simply be a matter of tightening the nut...but, if you are going to replace the shaft and prop, you may as well replace the stuffing with dripless stuffing for less than $100 (I think). The cracking anchor hatch cover (not lazarette...that is the aft storage bin), may be repairable for not much...maybe $100. I replaced the seacock for seawage...and other seacocks, for about $50 each when the boat is out of the water. I'm not certain about the price of the other items...but, the keel bolts could be a problem. I strongly recommend you buy the Tech-Talk Collection which is an excellent manual containing hundreds of technical ideas for older Catalina 30s. It has a section on the keel bolts and other problems you aren't aware of yet...but, I'm sure you will encounter. To order contact Richard Dickens at tektalkdik@aol.com for information. By the way...the Catalina 30 was one of the most popular coastal cruisers ever built. If you keep looking, you are sure to find one in better condition with fewer issues. Eric Ludin
I have had an 83 Cat 30 about a year and a half and have done a few of those jobs. I bought a new bildge pump from West Marine for about $70. I replaced the prop shaft with stainless steel for about $150. The deck delams cost about $50 each to repair. The leaking stuffing box may simply be a matter of tightening the nut...but, if you are going to replace the shaft and prop, you may as well replace the stuffing with dripless stuffing for less than $100 (I think). The cracking anchor hatch cover (not lazarette...that is the aft storage bin), may be repairable for not much...maybe $100. I replaced the seacock for seawage...and other seacocks, for about $50 each when the boat is out of the water. I'm not certain about the price of the other items...but, the keel bolts could be a problem. I strongly recommend you buy the Tech-Talk Collection which is an excellent manual containing hundreds of technical ideas for older Catalina 30s. It has a section on the keel bolts and other problems you aren't aware of yet...but, I'm sure you will encounter. To order contact Richard Dickens at tektalkdik@aol.com for information. By the way...the Catalina 30 was one of the most popular coastal cruisers ever built. If you keep looking, you are sure to find one in better condition with fewer issues. Eric Ludin
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D.St.Denis
Hello Alan, Where do I start,before anything else need to find out if the keel bolts are leaking ? If they are rusted up from standing water in the hull your project will cost a lot less.If they are leaking and rotten $$$ have just gone up.You will need to know how bad it is and if the bolts can be replaced you do have some options here call the tech department at Catalina talk to Dave.On a friends boat we just drilled new holes and set more bolts $ 400.Hull will still need to be resealed and painted.Engine next,have someone look at it,plan on this change water pump,fuel pump,belts,hoses,zinc's fuel lines,oil pan gasket,oil pump,$300 to $550. Packing, gear and rudder $100.New shaft $80 to $150.Rework wheel $100 to $200.Deck work $25 to $50 per spot.Bilge pump needs to be pumps $75 to $225.I would change the standing riggen and the chain plates, go with the upgrades from Catalina $600 to $1500.Would also upgrade the boom to the new type for reefing $350.Even if you replace the engine with (rebuilt or new ) you will still have a great boat !!! Catalina is a very good cruiser sloop.Navigational equipment is just what the color of the month is most of us have stay with autohelm stuff but JRC and Simrad are putting out some great stuff too. I remember when it cost $ 6000 for a radar now look at them you can get one for $700. The reason to find out how the keel bolts rusted are that I have found that with leaking rudder stock, wheel shaft or leaking valves that leave standing water in the hull is what cause the rust on the bolts not keel bolts failing.They fail are start to when they have not been tighten,you want to do this 4 times a years just to check them.A grounding is what makes them fail or starts to anyway once the sealcaulk is open up that is where the trouble is.It is always good to have the boat pull once a year to check out the hull.The cost will depend on how much you do and how you buy parts shop around and good sailing remember a new 30ft vessel starts at about $85,000 to $100.000 plus.
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Milton Critz
RUN
My wife and I purchased a Hunter h34 as a fixer upper. We knew what we were getting into when we bought the boat so not too many suprises lurked beneath the surface. Our boat did not have keel bolt problems, deck de-laminations, or many of the other ills that your prospective boat has. We did learn a valuable lesson as many before us have, the repairs add up very quickly and they are usually more costly,either in time and or money, than you think they will be. In short, we did the fixer upper once, it was fun and now it is done. We kept the boat for about 5 years, had a great time sailing it and traded it in on a new Catalina 400MKII about 2 years ago. My advise, run, run very quickly and find a boat that is in better condition, unless they are literally giving it away.
My wife and I purchased a Hunter h34 as a fixer upper. We knew what we were getting into when we bought the boat so not too many suprises lurked beneath the surface. Our boat did not have keel bolt problems, deck de-laminations, or many of the other ills that your prospective boat has. We did learn a valuable lesson as many before us have, the repairs add up very quickly and they are usually more costly,either in time and or money, than you think they will be. In short, we did the fixer upper once, it was fun and now it is done. We kept the boat for about 5 years, had a great time sailing it and traded it in on a new Catalina 400MKII about 2 years ago. My advise, run, run very quickly and find a boat that is in better condition, unless they are literally giving it away.
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Cliff Carter
Been There Done That !
Alan, We purchased a 1977 Catalina 30 about three years ago that had been badly uncared for. I knew what I was getting and that it needed a lot of work however the price was right @ $25K Canadian. I have been working on it since day one and am now in the process of repowering as the Yanmar YSE-12 died. Even with the new rebuilt two cylinder Yanmar that I have purchased I am still below the average going price of $32/34,000 Canadian for the same boat. If you can do your own work then a fix me upper is not always something to steer clear of. I think I get more enjoyment out of working on the boat than sailing it. My wife asked one day what I will do when everything is fixed on the boat and I said I'll break something so I can fix it! If you have any questions regarding an older C-30 please feel free to contact me. Cliff Carter C-30 #598 "PlusOne" Oak Bay, B.C. cliffc@city.victoria.bc.ca
Alan, We purchased a 1977 Catalina 30 about three years ago that had been badly uncared for. I knew what I was getting and that it needed a lot of work however the price was right @ $25K Canadian. I have been working on it since day one and am now in the process of repowering as the Yanmar YSE-12 died. Even with the new rebuilt two cylinder Yanmar that I have purchased I am still below the average going price of $32/34,000 Canadian for the same boat. If you can do your own work then a fix me upper is not always something to steer clear of. I think I get more enjoyment out of working on the boat than sailing it. My wife asked one day what I will do when everything is fixed on the boat and I said I'll break something so I can fix it! If you have any questions regarding an older C-30 please feel free to contact me. Cliff Carter C-30 #598 "PlusOne" Oak Bay, B.C. cliffc@city.victoria.bc.ca
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