Converting H27 to Portapotty

[mmlspace]

I'm looking to buy a 1978 Hunter 27, but I've found that despite the law in 1978 and the original plumbing diagram for the boat the marine head was installed direct discharge and there is no pump out deck plate.

I've seen other Cherubini owners on this site note the same configuration on their H27s. So apparently that was a thing Hunter was doing back then.

My question is whether anyone had trouble getting a portpotty to sit securely on the somewhat narrow base the original head sat on. I'm trying to figure out how hard it will be to convert to a portapotty.

 

[Johnb]

FWIW we installed the equivalent of the Dometic 711-M28 in 2000 and have been living aboard with it for the past 18 months. When it fails I am going to replace with the same again because it has been so trouble free and functional.

I know there are newer more compact units available and maybe Peggy Hall will comment.

 

[David in Sandusky]

I believe our pumpable porta-potty was original equipment on our ‘77 h27, deck fitting and all. It’s installed on the floor of the head, starboard side. The pump out hose runs vertically to the deck, close to the hull.

 

[heritage]

Another option would be a composting toilet. The smallest one I could find was the C-Head. As you can see, I had to install it diagonally and it still hangs over the lip of the platform a bit.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

FWIW we installed the equivalent of the Dometic 711-M28 in 2000 and have been living aboard with it for the past 18 months. When it fails I am going to replace with the same again because it has been so trouble free and functional. I know there are newer more compact units available and maybe Peggy Hall will comment.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the equivalent of" the Dometic (previously SeaLand) 711-M28 'cuz I know of nothing else quite like it. Dometic 711 - All-in-One Toilet System It's actually just a glorified MSD portapotty, but SERIOUSLY glorified, with a china bowl, a 9.5 gal holding tank that holds at least 75 flushes-, and designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water. One of my favorite systems, in fact. The only reason I rarely recommend it is the footprint size of the tank: close to 20" x "20'--too big to fit in the head on most sailboats. There's not much to fail on it--no pump, just the flush pedal mechanism, water valve and bowl seal, which aren't expensive, about every 10 years. So if you have anything close to it, you're gonna have it for as long as you own the boat.

So I'm dying to know what you have!

--Peggie

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I'm looking to buy a 1978 Hunter 27, but I've found that despite the law in 1978 and the original plumbing diagram for the boat the marine head was installed direct discharge and there is no pump out deck plate.

Installing a deck pumpout deck plate is a relatively easy job. As for toilet and holding tank...On any boat much smaller than about 30' a self-contained system—an "MSD" portapotty--makes a lot of sense. The "MSD" designation in the model name/number means it has fittings for a pumpout line and vent line, and is designed to be permanently installed (actually just sturdier brackets than portables, so you could still take it off the boat if you absolutely have to), which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything including urine jugs off the boat to empty it.

A 5-6 gallon model is household height and holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from a manual marine toilet and I'm not sure a "composter" can hold that much poop and organic material needed to absorb the liquid in solid waster (which, btw is about 75% water). No plumbing needed except a vent line and pumpout hose--so no new holes in the boat except a vent thru-hull and the aforementioned deck pumpout fitting...and -0- maintenance needed except for rinsing out the tank--which you can do with a bucket while it's being pumped out. Total cost including the pumpout hose and vent line is about $200--a fraction of what you'd spend for toilet, tank and all the related plumbing needed. And the best part is, you have all the advantages of a toilet and holding tank without giving up a single square foot of storage space.

If this idea appeals to you, check out the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD. You'll find the dimensions and other info in the listing for it on the Defender site SeaLand SaniPottie 975 MSD However, I believe you can get it for a bit less from the online store here at sbo.com

--Peggie

 

[Johnb]

[QUOTE="Peggie Hall HeadMistress, post: 1670782, member: 35248"

So I'm dying to know what you have!

--Peggie
[/QUOTE]

Peggy, it is the Sealand. I Translated it to the Dometic name to make it easier for the OP to look up.

 

[Johnb]

Peggy,
Just for fun I looked up a "conversation" we had back in 2009.

I wrote:
"When we got our Hunter 37C 9 years ago one of the first problems we faced was that the holding tank was shot. We needed to deal with it but were short of time and money. Walking through a marine store we spotted a Sealand Traveler that had been returned and was in their bargain section. At the time it seemed like a good temporary solution. 9 years later it seems like a great permanent solution.

The advantages are:
1 It needs no power to operate – even if there was no pressurized house water you could still flush with a jug
2 Anything that will drop down through the hole can be harpooned and retrieved through the hole – with the flush valve open you can see the whole inside of the tank. The system is bomb proof.
3 Every now and again we do a gourmet clean out where we hit the walls and bottom of the tank with water jetted from a hose and keep pumping out until it is pristine.
4 With judicious use you have complete control over how much water is needed for a flush. I added a valve in the fresh water supply so it can be cut off with the flush valve open. When used by “experts” it is amazing how the tank capacity can be eked out.
5 With an integral tank you save on all kinds of piping, valves and space elsewhere in the boat.
6 The tanks is translucent so you can see the level.

The downside is that the tank does not have a very large capacity, either 6.5 or 9.5 gallons, but as mentioned above, it can be put to good use. "

You replied:
"I've always liked that system

It's the SeaLand 711 M28 Traveler...and everything John says about it is true. It's really just a glorified MSD portapotty, but I like to think of it as a "poor man's VacuFlush" 'cuz it uses the same bowl assembly.

It has only one possible drawback: the tank footprint--approx. 20 x 22--is too big to fit in the head on most sailboats. Defender has it for the best price: SeaLand Traveler at Defender "

You also corrected me saying it is available in a 6.5 gallon version, which is not true.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You also corrected me saying it is available in a 6.5 gallon version, which is not true.

I think you misread my post, John....if you read it again you'll see I said it has a 9.5 gallon tank. And btw, it actually uses their RV "direct drop" toilet bowl, which the VacuFlush also uses but adds discharge plumbing to it.
You DO know that you can add water to the bowl ahead of solids by just lifting the pedal with your toe instead of depressing it?

The only difference between SeaLand and Dometic products/equipment is the brand name...Dometic bought SeaLand Technology about 10 years ago and have been "educating" us to the name change ever since. Search results for "SeaLand" now bring up "Dometic." You'll see listings for Dometic equipment that show the brand as "Dometic/SeaLand"...some show it as "Dometic (formerly SeaLand)"..some just use the Dometic brand name and may or may not mention somewhere that it's the new brand name for SeaLand products. Defender's listing for this toilet has a little blue box on the right side of it: "See listings for all Dometic (formerly SeaLand) products."

--Peggie

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I have the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD. It was installed last year and has been used for half a season. I utilized the existing vent line, Y-valve, and deck plate. Most of the large sanitary tubing was replaced. We only pee in it

Pros

• Very easy install. I had it completed in 2-2.5 hours
• Virtually no smell
• We've had the boat heeled over to 35 degrees with no issues
• It's really cheap! I picked it up for $120!
• In the summer I average 3-4 days a week on board. Sometimes it's upwards of 16 hours. I could go 2-3 weeks between pump outs

Cons

• It requires the use of three different levers/buttons to use. It's a bit confusing at first (pump to pressurize water tank, button to release water to bowl and a handle to flush to holding tank)
• Instructions claim you need to do 15 pumps. I've found 5-7 works
• Flimsy lid and seat that like to pop off every once in a while. I will probably have to replace one or both at some point because the "hinge" isn't very robust
• I occasionally see a small amount of fluid above the flush valve/blade but this has not caused any issues or smells. Not sure if it's urine or water from the upper tank. Not enough to tell
• The flush blade opens up a 3" hole directly to the holding tank. Could be smelly but it's worked fine for our usage. I usually take note of how full the tank is when I flush. The level indicator on the front isn't the best but it does work

Overall I'm happy with it and would buy it again

 

[SailormanDan]

@Peggie Hall HeadMistress - Where would the fresh water the owner's manual refers to come from to flush the Dometic/Sealand 711-M28? My 1981 H27 only has the drinking water tank and a through hull to pull raw water in and I thought I wasn't supposed to attach the fresh drinking water tank to the black water system. I guess I could possibly re-use the 5 gallon waste tank that I will no longer be using.

 

[SailormanDan]

@mmlspace I'm thinking I may have to build a small box out of PVC that would fit under whatever hangs out to support the head. Go to Lowe's for some trim pieces and cut them out. I was leaning towards the Sanipottie with the MSD pumpout option since it's the simplest to retro fit. (I have a deck fitting to pumpout with)
The environmental rules have changed and you can no longer discharge waste overboard in the Potomac or the Chesapeake.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Although no sea water toilet should ever be connected to the fresh water system, toilets that are designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water--and there are many including this one--have all the necessary safeguards built in to protect the potable water supply. So you'd connect the flush water intake line to the cold water line to the head sink. You'd do way with the line from the thru-hull and close the seacock.

That toilet uses very little flush water--only enough to rinse the bowl after each flush. Adding water to the bowl ahead of solids--whih you can do by lifting the pedal keeps the bowl a lot cleaner...you don't need much.

--Peggie

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The environmental rules have changed and you can no longer discharge waste overboard in the Potomac or the Chesapeake.

The rules requiring all boats to hold or treat toilet waste have been in place for almost 40 years. The discharge of treated waste from a USCG Type I or II treatment device (ElectroScan Raritan ElectroScan Promo Sheet or PuraSan Raritan PuraSan Promo Sheet) is legal everywhere on the Bay except Herring Bay. There, it must go into a holding tank.

--Peggie

 

[mmlspace]

Thank you so much everyone. I'm thinking of converting the current MSD setup. There is already a diverter (currently connected to nothing). The PO purchased a holding tank but it's not mounted or plumbed yet. I think adding a waste deck plate and vent, and connecting them to the holding tank is probably not much more effort than tearing out the current MSD. The holding tank and diverter is in the starboard saloon compartment so it's fairly accessible. The less accessible part would be running plumbing to a new deckplate and vent.

 

[SailormanDan]

@Peggie Hall HeadMistress Thanks for the clarification, being able to use the installed fresh water tank would be convenient.

 

[pbknowles]

I have not investigated or used the systems discussed above, so take the comment for what it is worth. My H37C is laid up for a long term refit, but on my current boat (oDay27) we converted to a composting head several years ago and would never go back. The SeaLand et al may be superior, I don't know, but I am very satisfied with the composting head, in our case an Air Head. Bear in mind that we only stay on the boat for a week at a time plus weekends during the season, but with only two of us I only have to empty it once a year and it doesn't smell.