Convert Manual Head to a integrated electrical head/holding tank pump-out system using: One diaphragm sea water pump. One macerator pump. Two 1 1/2" Y-valves One switch 12V 10A, for diaphragm pump. One solenoid switch 12V 20A or manual switch 12V 20A for macerator pump. Plumbing fittings, depend on individual case. Total material cost: $200-250, depend on individual case. Time required- one weekend. Benefit for this DIY conversion: - one macerator pump serve dual function. - simplify electrical wiring and occupy less space (compare to having both electrical head and holding tank empting pump.) - cost less. Even better if you happen have a broken manual head pump to be replaced. Setback: less professional appearance. (My existing system isn’t pretty too.) Please refer to diagram (.JPEG image) attached and comment. Thanks for your input in advance.
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It won't work
It's impossible to tell from your drawing WHAT the macerator is supposed to do...it appears to be in the head discharge line into the tank. However, I can tell you that you can't dump the tank through the same line that comes off the toilet into the tank at midway on the side of the tank...it'll be impossible to empty the tank beyond that level, because that's where the pump start sucking air instead of waste...when prime is broken that's all the waste you're gonna get out. You appear to have eliminated the tank vent altogether. That definitely won't work. A vent is essential to allow air in the tank displaced by incoming waste to escape--otherwise the tank will become pressurized...also to allow air into the tank to replace tank contents as the tank is emptied--otherwise, the macerator or pumpout just pulls a vacuum that prevents anything from being pumped out of the tank. I have NO idea how you plan to make the toilet work. Just adding an electric intake pump doesn't convert a manual toilet to an electric toilet...unless there's some means of pumping water OUT of the toilet at least as fast as it comes in, the result will be an overflowing bowl. And just replacing the intake function on an manual toilet doesn't really gain much if it only means you have pump harder and faster manually to move the water out. I think you'd better do a little more research on how systems have to work before trying this.
It's impossible to tell from your drawing WHAT the macerator is supposed to do...it appears to be in the head discharge line into the tank. However, I can tell you that you can't dump the tank through the same line that comes off the toilet into the tank at midway on the side of the tank...it'll be impossible to empty the tank beyond that level, because that's where the pump start sucking air instead of waste...when prime is broken that's all the waste you're gonna get out. You appear to have eliminated the tank vent altogether. That definitely won't work. A vent is essential to allow air in the tank displaced by incoming waste to escape--otherwise the tank will become pressurized...also to allow air into the tank to replace tank contents as the tank is emptied--otherwise, the macerator or pumpout just pulls a vacuum that prevents anything from being pumped out of the tank. I have NO idea how you plan to make the toilet work. Just adding an electric intake pump doesn't convert a manual toilet to an electric toilet...unless there's some means of pumping water OUT of the toilet at least as fast as it comes in, the result will be an overflowing bowl. And just replacing the intake function on an manual toilet doesn't really gain much if it only means you have pump harder and faster manually to move the water out. I think you'd better do a little more research on how systems have to work before trying this.
Some more
Hi Peggie, thanks for comment. I will try my best to explain the idea to you. The manual pump attached to the head is working in such a way that when you pull the handle up, it doses two things: 1. The piston pushing the water in the upper chamber of the cylinder into the head. 2. Sucking waste from the head into the cylinder’s lower chamber. When the handle is push down, it doses two things as well: 1. Pushing the waste already in the lower chamber into holding tank. 2. Sucking water into the upper chamber. (This is when the valve is in FLUSH position and of my head) Basically it’s kind of combine two pump function, pumping water into head and pumping waste from head into holding tank (or discharge out board) in one pump, in one push-pull. So the idea is to remove the manual pump from the head, then you will have a 1.5" dia. waste discharge line and a 1" (or 3/4" ?) water intake line. Both have two ends hanging there. Connect the macerator pump’s inlet to the head’s end and outlet to the holding tank’s end of the 1.5" line. Connect the diaphragm pump to the 1" line, inlet to the water inlet end, outlet to the head’s end. Rest of the system unchanged. So, if the intake pump is pumping water into head and the macerator pump is pumping waste out of the head, and using very same plumbing system, why it not going to work? If this is not going to work then pump-out will not work as well. But if this is workable then pump-out is working in the same principle, the macerator pump replaces the manual diaphragm pump, by turning two Y-valves to Y position as showing in the drawing. Of course plumbing conversion has to be done according to the drawing. It’s difficult to make every detail clear in a 2D drawing. However, the basic setup is clear to everyone who just has to take a detail look of his own boat then he would know how this conversion is about. By the way, holding tank vent is untouched. Just missed it in the drawing. Am I still miss something here? Any comment or suggestion to make this conversion works would be appreciated by many who hate to pumping the head. If the idea is really not workable, still a lot of thanks to all of you. PS- I hate those two manual pumps in the toilet. But I haven’t had enough space to install a macerator pump for pumping out the holding tank even I have an electrical head. By remove the manual head pump and manual waste diaphragm pump, which is quite large, I would have enough space to install macerator pump and diaphragm pump.
Hi Peggie, thanks for comment. I will try my best to explain the idea to you. The manual pump attached to the head is working in such a way that when you pull the handle up, it doses two things: 1. The piston pushing the water in the upper chamber of the cylinder into the head. 2. Sucking waste from the head into the cylinder’s lower chamber. When the handle is push down, it doses two things as well: 1. Pushing the waste already in the lower chamber into holding tank. 2. Sucking water into the upper chamber. (This is when the valve is in FLUSH position and of my head) Basically it’s kind of combine two pump function, pumping water into head and pumping waste from head into holding tank (or discharge out board) in one pump, in one push-pull. So the idea is to remove the manual pump from the head, then you will have a 1.5" dia. waste discharge line and a 1" (or 3/4" ?) water intake line. Both have two ends hanging there. Connect the macerator pump’s inlet to the head’s end and outlet to the holding tank’s end of the 1.5" line. Connect the diaphragm pump to the 1" line, inlet to the water inlet end, outlet to the head’s end. Rest of the system unchanged. So, if the intake pump is pumping water into head and the macerator pump is pumping waste out of the head, and using very same plumbing system, why it not going to work? If this is not going to work then pump-out will not work as well. But if this is workable then pump-out is working in the same principle, the macerator pump replaces the manual diaphragm pump, by turning two Y-valves to Y position as showing in the drawing. Of course plumbing conversion has to be done according to the drawing. It’s difficult to make every detail clear in a 2D drawing. However, the basic setup is clear to everyone who just has to take a detail look of his own boat then he would know how this conversion is about. By the way, holding tank vent is untouched. Just missed it in the drawing. Am I still miss something here? Any comment or suggestion to make this conversion works would be appreciated by many who hate to pumping the head. If the idea is really not workable, still a lot of thanks to all of you. PS- I hate those two manual pumps in the toilet. But I haven’t had enough space to install a macerator pump for pumping out the holding tank even I have an electrical head. By remove the manual head pump and manual waste diaphragm pump, which is quite large, I would have enough space to install macerator pump and diaphragm pump.
You're creating more problems than you're solving
Your first problem is the toilet. What you want to do replaces a simple pump with two separate pumps in a way that will give you nothing but problems, because he flush water rate has to be sync'ed to move flush water out at exactly the same rate it comes in. If flush water comes in faster than it goes out, the bowl will overflow...if the macerator moves it out faster than it comes in, or continues to run after you stop pumping the manual pump, dry friction heat will "fry" the impeller. While not impossible to simultaneously pump the diaphragm pump and man the macerator switch at the same time, it's unlikely that you'll always be successful in preventing the macerator from running dry...and all you're doing is turning a simple operation into a juggling act, and it's inevitable that if you don't drop a drop a ball, a guest will. If you want an electric toilet, buy one...the conversion kit version of the Raritan SeaEra won't cost you any more--in fact less--than a macerator and a Whale or Henderson diaphragm pump. I don't know what your objection is to the manual toilet's piston/cylinder pump. Keep it properly lubricated and it's efficient, and both simple and smooth as silk to operate--especially the Raritan PH II. But the biggest reason your design won't work is because you cannot use the same macerator that moves waste from the toilet INTO the tank to pump waste OUT of the tank--for several reasons, the most important being, a macerator can only move waste in one direction...it cannot reverse direction. So the same macerator cannot move waste toward the tank AND pull it out of the tank. 2. The toilet discharge line and the tank discharge line must be two separate hoses. If you try to combine 'em, there's no way to keep the y-valve in tank overboard discharge line closed toward the thru-hull without also blocking the path of the waste going from the toilet into the tank. 3. Unless there's a pick-up tube inside the tank that goes to the bottom, you can't empty a tank through a fitting above the bottom...the pump can't prime. So there's NO way to do what you want to do without installing two macerators. Rube Goldberg would be proud of you, though.
Your first problem is the toilet. What you want to do replaces a simple pump with two separate pumps in a way that will give you nothing but problems, because he flush water rate has to be sync'ed to move flush water out at exactly the same rate it comes in. If flush water comes in faster than it goes out, the bowl will overflow...if the macerator moves it out faster than it comes in, or continues to run after you stop pumping the manual pump, dry friction heat will "fry" the impeller. While not impossible to simultaneously pump the diaphragm pump and man the macerator switch at the same time, it's unlikely that you'll always be successful in preventing the macerator from running dry...and all you're doing is turning a simple operation into a juggling act, and it's inevitable that if you don't drop a drop a ball, a guest will. If you want an electric toilet, buy one...the conversion kit version of the Raritan SeaEra won't cost you any more--in fact less--than a macerator and a Whale or Henderson diaphragm pump. I don't know what your objection is to the manual toilet's piston/cylinder pump. Keep it properly lubricated and it's efficient, and both simple and smooth as silk to operate--especially the Raritan PH II. But the biggest reason your design won't work is because you cannot use the same macerator that moves waste from the toilet INTO the tank to pump waste OUT of the tank--for several reasons, the most important being, a macerator can only move waste in one direction...it cannot reverse direction. So the same macerator cannot move waste toward the tank AND pull it out of the tank. 2. The toilet discharge line and the tank discharge line must be two separate hoses. If you try to combine 'em, there's no way to keep the y-valve in tank overboard discharge line closed toward the thru-hull without also blocking the path of the waste going from the toilet into the tank. 3. Unless there's a pick-up tube inside the tank that goes to the bottom, you can't empty a tank through a fitting above the bottom...the pump can't prime. So there's NO way to do what you want to do without installing two macerators. Rube Goldberg would be proud of you, though.
One more flaw I forgot to mention
You can't have a vented loop ahead of a macerator, or ahead any pump that's pulling waste or water...vented loops must be downstream of the pump. If it's upstream, it'll just pull air into the line, which will prevent the pump from priming and therefore from moving any water or waste. It also will result in a fried impeller.
You can't have a vented loop ahead of a macerator, or ahead any pump that's pulling waste or water...vented loops must be downstream of the pump. If it's upstream, it'll just pull air into the line, which will prevent the pump from priming and therefore from moving any water or waste. It also will result in a fried impeller.
and more
Hi Peggie, I will try to convince you once again. I think there are some miss understanding about the setup of the system we are discussing here. So I made a free-handed 3D drawing for your reference. Most of the system’s plumbing remain untouched but to replace manual head pump with two electrical pumps and add two Y-valves. I agreed with you about problem of different flow rate of the two pumps. But I am not so sure how big the problem it could be. One thing I am sure is the macerator pump will not runs dry, except there is a human error. I also agreed with you that a conversion kit can works very well. However, if mine concept is workable then I prefer this one stone two birds approach to solve lack of space problem I have. Appreciate your input, Rube Goldberg is fun.
Hi Peggie, I will try to convince you once again. I think there are some miss understanding about the setup of the system we are discussing here. So I made a free-handed 3D drawing for your reference. Most of the system’s plumbing remain untouched but to replace manual head pump with two electrical pumps and add two Y-valves. I agreed with you about problem of different flow rate of the two pumps. But I am not so sure how big the problem it could be. One thing I am sure is the macerator pump will not runs dry, except there is a human error. I also agreed with you that a conversion kit can works very well. However, if mine concept is workable then I prefer this one stone two birds approach to solve lack of space problem I have. Appreciate your input, Rube Goldberg is fun.
Ok...THEORETICALLY it MIGHT work
But the vented loop in the head discharge line is in the wrong place...it provides no protection from rising water or a siphon through the overboard thru-hull. To protect the toilet from both the thru-hull and backflow from the tank, it would have to go ahead of the first y-valve after the toilet. And there's no vented loop in the intake line. You could fit two macerators in the space that two y-valves and all that hose would occupy...it's guaranteed to leave waste sitting in the hose to permeate it. The simplest way to set up the system: An electric toilet that goes up and over a vented loop to a y-valve--one side goes to the thru-hull, the other to the tank. Two separate discharge hoses coming out of the tank--one that goes straight to the pumpout, the other going directly to macerator or manual diaphragm pump, up and over a vented loop to a tee in the toilet overboard discharge line. Only requires one y-valve, one macerator pump, and two vented loops and about 1/3 the amount of hose. Cost: about $450--far less than you spend for the electric diaphragm pump ($250), 2 Whale y-valves (about $75/ea), and a macerator (about $125), plus hose and hose clamps (enough to double clamp every connection). However, it's your boat...
But the vented loop in the head discharge line is in the wrong place...it provides no protection from rising water or a siphon through the overboard thru-hull. To protect the toilet from both the thru-hull and backflow from the tank, it would have to go ahead of the first y-valve after the toilet. And there's no vented loop in the intake line. You could fit two macerators in the space that two y-valves and all that hose would occupy...it's guaranteed to leave waste sitting in the hose to permeate it. The simplest way to set up the system: An electric toilet that goes up and over a vented loop to a y-valve--one side goes to the thru-hull, the other to the tank. Two separate discharge hoses coming out of the tank--one that goes straight to the pumpout, the other going directly to macerator or manual diaphragm pump, up and over a vented loop to a tee in the toilet overboard discharge line. Only requires one y-valve, one macerator pump, and two vented loops and about 1/3 the amount of hose. Cost: about $450--far less than you spend for the electric diaphragm pump ($250), 2 Whale y-valves (about $75/ea), and a macerator (about $125), plus hose and hose clamps (enough to double clamp every connection). However, it's your boat...
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