We are at a loss of what to do, to eradicate this problem. We've had the boat for about 2 mos. The head and sink area emit a noxious odor. We've had her pumped out, flushed with fresh water, scrubbed all the hoses and connections (no evidence of leaking) and added some type of environmentally safe marine head soln. The boat was stored last season without having the holding tank pumped. Would this be a cause for the odor?
- Status
The tank isn't the culprit
The most likely sources of odor in the head are: 1. stagnant sea water trapped in the head intake and channel in the rim of the bowl. Sea water is alive with animal and vegetable micro (and sometimes not so micro)organisms. When they die and decay, they stink! To find out if this is your problem, disconnect the head intake hose from the intake thru-hull (close the seacock first!)...stick it in a bucket of clean fresh water that's liberally laced with white vinegar...pump it through the toilet. Unless your toilet is electric, reconnect the hose to the thru-hull, but don't open it...flush using fresh water poured down the toilet. If the intake is the culprit, there should be no more odor. 2. Dirty shower sump. A wet dirty shower sump can smell like a swamp or even a sewer, especially in hot weather. The cure: clean the sump. 3. The toilet joker valve is worn out and no longer can close to block odor from head intake hose. The cure: replace the joker valve. If it's been more than a couple of years since the toilet has been rebuilt, rebuild it...the joker valve is included in the kit. I think you'll find a lot more useful information at the link below.
The most likely sources of odor in the head are: 1. stagnant sea water trapped in the head intake and channel in the rim of the bowl. Sea water is alive with animal and vegetable micro (and sometimes not so micro)organisms. When they die and decay, they stink! To find out if this is your problem, disconnect the head intake hose from the intake thru-hull (close the seacock first!)...stick it in a bucket of clean fresh water that's liberally laced with white vinegar...pump it through the toilet. Unless your toilet is electric, reconnect the hose to the thru-hull, but don't open it...flush using fresh water poured down the toilet. If the intake is the culprit, there should be no more odor. 2. Dirty shower sump. A wet dirty shower sump can smell like a swamp or even a sewer, especially in hot weather. The cure: clean the sump. 3. The toilet joker valve is worn out and no longer can close to block odor from head intake hose. The cure: replace the joker valve. If it's been more than a couple of years since the toilet has been rebuilt, rebuild it...the joker valve is included in the kit. I think you'll find a lot more useful information at the link below.
I'm not sure you're right about the patience..
It's in short supply sometimes. But I thank you for the kind words anyway.
It's in short supply sometimes. But I thank you for the kind words anyway.
Hit the Head on the Nail, er... Nail on the Head!
Joe couldn't have said it any better! Anyone that can deal with these issues day after day and not get any more flustered is doing really, really good! You're providing a great service. So, Amen! By the way, "Nor'westing" magazine, August, had a nice full page review of your new book!
Joe couldn't have said it any better! Anyone that can deal with these issues day after day and not get any more flustered is doing really, really good! You're providing a great service. So, Amen! By the way, "Nor'westing" magazine, August, had a nice full page review of your new book!
Everybody gotta be good at somethin'
And I do appreciate all the kind words. Nor'westing sent me a copy...they gave my book a VERY nice review, indeed! I'm tickled pink.
And I do appreciate all the kind words. Nor'westing sent me a copy...they gave my book a VERY nice review, indeed! I'm tickled pink.
Larger issue
Peggie's excellent response begs a larger point. I have long since shut down the use of seawater and prefer to use fresh water to preclude the very source of odor she alludes to. I just keep the seacock closed and tell people to pump "dry" by flushing with fresh water. I fill a gallon jug from the freshwater tank, which serves the dual purpose of running that system regularly to keep it fresh.
Peggie's excellent response begs a larger point. I have long since shut down the use of seawater and prefer to use fresh water to preclude the very source of odor she alludes to. I just keep the seacock closed and tell people to pump "dry" by flushing with fresh water. I fill a gallon jug from the freshwater tank, which serves the dual purpose of running that system regularly to keep it fresh.
Works for manual toilets, but
Don't close the intake seacock and flush with water poured into the bowl if you have an electric macerating toilet that use raw water. 99% of raw water macertaing electric toilets (Wilcox Newport is an exception to this) have integral intake pumps...that means the same motor powers both the intake pump and the macerator and discharge pump...when you push the button, they both run. If the intake seacock is closed, the intake pump runs dry, which not only destroys the impeller, but also the intake pump housing. If you ever had to open the seacock again, the toilet wouldn't flush and the bowl would overflow with sea water.
Don't close the intake seacock and flush with water poured into the bowl if you have an electric macerating toilet that use raw water. 99% of raw water macertaing electric toilets (Wilcox Newport is an exception to this) have integral intake pumps...that means the same motor powers both the intake pump and the macerator and discharge pump...when you push the button, they both run. If the intake seacock is closed, the intake pump runs dry, which not only destroys the impeller, but also the intake pump housing. If you ever had to open the seacock again, the toilet wouldn't flush and the bowl would overflow with sea water.
Electric advice
Wow, I'm glad I read your comments on electric heads. My recently commissioned 473 has 2 electric heads. We've been pouring fresh water down the bowels (recommended by the dealer & other owners)with the raw water intakes closed. Any alternatives for us?
Wow, I'm glad I read your comments on electric heads. My recently commissioned 473 has 2 electric heads. We've been pouring fresh water down the bowels (recommended by the dealer & other owners)with the raw water intakes closed. Any alternatives for us?
How do the toilets work?
Is there only a single button to push that both brings in flush water and flushes bowl contents out, or is flush water operated separately? If they're separate, you're ok...but if it's only a single button, the impeller in the intake was toast after your first weekend aboard with the intake seacock closed. If you've been doing that all summer, there's little if anything left of the impeller and the intake pump housing is already toast. WHY dealers specify raw water toilets and then recommend just closing the seacock instead of installing toilets designed to use pressurized water is a mystery to me...the cost is about the same--actually a little less. If your dealer did indeed tell you to do this, and if the toilet has been damaged as a result, I'd go back to him for a warranty replacement--this time a toilet designed to use fresh water.
Is there only a single button to push that both brings in flush water and flushes bowl contents out, or is flush water operated separately? If they're separate, you're ok...but if it's only a single button, the impeller in the intake was toast after your first weekend aboard with the intake seacock closed. If you've been doing that all summer, there's little if anything left of the impeller and the intake pump housing is already toast. WHY dealers specify raw water toilets and then recommend just closing the seacock instead of installing toilets designed to use pressurized water is a mystery to me...the cost is about the same--actually a little less. If your dealer did indeed tell you to do this, and if the toilet has been damaged as a result, I'd go back to him for a warranty replacement--this time a toilet designed to use fresh water.
electric head design
Peggy, Thanks for your earlier reply. In answer to your question: The forward head has a switch that toggles. Left brings in raw water, right drains the bowl. The other head has an electric kit on a manual head. Turn the dial to the left brings in raw, to the right drains. We've closed the raw water intake on both, filled the bowl with fresh and toggled the switch/dial to the right to drain. Is this ok?
Peggy, Thanks for your earlier reply. In answer to your question: The forward head has a switch that toggles. Left brings in raw water, right drains the bowl. The other head has an electric kit on a manual head. Turn the dial to the left brings in raw, to the right drains. We've closed the raw water intake on both, filled the bowl with fresh and toggled the switch/dial to the right to drain. Is this ok?
Questions...
What are the makes/models of your toilets? If the seacock were open, would flush water continue to come into the bowl in the "flush" mode?
What are the makes/models of your toilets? If the seacock were open, would flush water continue to come into the bowl in the "flush" mode?
fresh water in an electic head
Hi Peggy, I'm not sure of the model, but the brand is jabsco. One is an electric, the other is a manual with an electric kit. I've been poring fresh water down the bowl. The switch toggles to the left (draws in raw water, I don't use it) or toggle to the right to drain (which I do). This is as per the dealer. Bad idea?
Hi Peggy, I'm not sure of the model, but the brand is jabsco. One is an electric, the other is a manual with an electric kit. I've been poring fresh water down the bowl. The switch toggles to the left (draws in raw water, I don't use it) or toggle to the right to drain (which I do). This is as per the dealer. Bad idea?
You aren't able to give me enough info to know
Several Jabsco models have separate flush water intake pumps--actually ParMax water pumps, in fact. I don't THINK any of the conversion kits do, though. So you need to check with your dealer to find out what you have. This is a perfect illustration of why you should keep all the manuals for every bit of equipment on your boat! If you don't know what you have, how can you trouble shoot anything and/or order the right parts for it if you have to??? How can I or anyone else answer your questions about equipment that's available in half a dozen models if you can't tell anyone what make/model you have? Replace ALL your manuals...set up a file, and keep it on the boat. When you replace or add any equipment, replace or add the manual to the file. The only thing you can do now is call your dealer and ask him which toilets are on your boat...and while you're talking to him, ask him why he didn't just install toilets designed to use pressurized water instead of raw water toilets and giving you a work around that may or may not be the right thing to do.
Several Jabsco models have separate flush water intake pumps--actually ParMax water pumps, in fact. I don't THINK any of the conversion kits do, though. So you need to check with your dealer to find out what you have. This is a perfect illustration of why you should keep all the manuals for every bit of equipment on your boat! If you don't know what you have, how can you trouble shoot anything and/or order the right parts for it if you have to??? How can I or anyone else answer your questions about equipment that's available in half a dozen models if you can't tell anyone what make/model you have? Replace ALL your manuals...set up a file, and keep it on the boat. When you replace or add any equipment, replace or add the manual to the file. The only thing you can do now is call your dealer and ask him which toilets are on your boat...and while you're talking to him, ask him why he didn't just install toilets designed to use pressurized water instead of raw water toilets and giving you a work around that may or may not be the right thing to do.
electric
Hi Peggy, Problem is all the manuals ARE on the boat. But I'm not, I'm travelling. What started this was a blanket statement on this site about problems caused by flushing by pouring fresh water down electric toilets. Sorry I couldn't provide all the information you require. I'll discuss this with the dealer. Goodbye.
Hi Peggy, Problem is all the manuals ARE on the boat. But I'm not, I'm travelling. What started this was a blanket statement on this site about problems caused by flushing by pouring fresh water down electric toilets. Sorry I couldn't provide all the information you require. I'll discuss this with the dealer. Goodbye.
If you kept all your manuals, you're 1 in amillion
Most boat owners pitch 'em without ever even opening 'em...and I'm gonna use every opportunity I can to point out the folly of doing that...'cuz the person who asks the question is FAR from the only one who reads public forum discussions. All you had to say was, you do have 'em but are out of town, and will check 'em when you get home. Once I know what models your toilets are, I can tell you whether it's ok to flush 'em with the seacocks closed. But I don't want to stick my neck out till I do know. However, from your description of it, I strongly suspect that one of your toilets--the conversion--is a Jabsco 29200. If so, running it with the intake seacock closed WILL destroy the intake impeller and housing. If your dealer advised you to do it, he gave you bad advice. So, if instead of stomping off in a huff, you'll check your manuals when you get home and let me know what you have, I'll be glad to tell you whether either toilet can safely be operated with the intake seacock closed.
Most boat owners pitch 'em without ever even opening 'em...and I'm gonna use every opportunity I can to point out the folly of doing that...'cuz the person who asks the question is FAR from the only one who reads public forum discussions. All you had to say was, you do have 'em but are out of town, and will check 'em when you get home. Once I know what models your toilets are, I can tell you whether it's ok to flush 'em with the seacocks closed. But I don't want to stick my neck out till I do know. However, from your description of it, I strongly suspect that one of your toilets--the conversion--is a Jabsco 29200. If so, running it with the intake seacock closed WILL destroy the intake impeller and housing. If your dealer advised you to do it, he gave you bad advice. So, if instead of stomping off in a huff, you'll check your manuals when you get home and let me know what you have, I'll be glad to tell you whether either toilet can safely be operated with the intake seacock closed.
Original Question
We have a 376 and bought it used from a well known Hunter Dealer (one of their trade-ins), and they had not pumped it out before winterizing the boat. We began to notice a smell the first year and it got worse as time went by. We cleaned and scrubbed and did all the right things, but the odor was still there. I replaced the long hose from the tank to the head and it didn't help. It got to the point that our clothes smelled like the boat after a long weekend. This winter I decided to replace everything on the boat that had to do with the head, hopeing that I would find a propblem. Pulled out all the hoses and tosed the tank (probably a good tank but I was on a mission). After all that I did find the problem. Th hose from the bottom of the tank to the plastic T fitting had hundreds of small cracks and rust staining. This section of hose had a very tight radius and would have been full of "liquid" and have frozen in the New Englad winter. It never leaked however it sure did stink. The best part of this messy job is that I replased the tank, used the OdorSafe hose per Peggy and best of all went with the SeaEra electric head that uses fresh water. Thanks Peggy great recomendation. And now we have a fresh smell boat, no odors in the aft cabin and no odors in the head when we flush. Ruseell S/V Allie Kat
We have a 376 and bought it used from a well known Hunter Dealer (one of their trade-ins), and they had not pumped it out before winterizing the boat. We began to notice a smell the first year and it got worse as time went by. We cleaned and scrubbed and did all the right things, but the odor was still there. I replaced the long hose from the tank to the head and it didn't help. It got to the point that our clothes smelled like the boat after a long weekend. This winter I decided to replace everything on the boat that had to do with the head, hopeing that I would find a propblem. Pulled out all the hoses and tosed the tank (probably a good tank but I was on a mission). After all that I did find the problem. Th hose from the bottom of the tank to the plastic T fitting had hundreds of small cracks and rust staining. This section of hose had a very tight radius and would have been full of "liquid" and have frozen in the New Englad winter. It never leaked however it sure did stink. The best part of this messy job is that I replased the tank, used the OdorSafe hose per Peggy and best of all went with the SeaEra electric head that uses fresh water. Thanks Peggy great recomendation. And now we have a fresh smell boat, no odors in the aft cabin and no odors in the head when we flush. Ruseell S/V Allie Kat
Russell, your story is an object lesson...
Ya did good...and I too know exactly what it's like to be "on a mission." Your experience illustrates a couple of important points: 1. You saw first hand why hose should never be heated to make it bend tighter than it wants to bend willingly (there should have been a radius fitting instead)...'cuz that's what caused the hose to crack. 2. Never replace just one hose in the system...'cuz the one you pick to replace is unlikely to the only one that's permeated. IF only one hose is the culprit, it's far more likely to be the pumpout hose than the head discharge hose...'cuz a hose that comes out of a tank at the bottom always has waste sitting in it to the level in the tank. Replacing only your head discharge hose didn't help much, but once you got 'em all out and all new ones in, you solved your odor problem. Replacing the toilet was a bonus that solved a separate problem. It was a lot of work, but I know you're a lot happier now!
Ya did good...and I too know exactly what it's like to be "on a mission."
Your experience illustrates a couple of important points: 1. You saw first hand why hose should never be heated to make it bend tighter than it wants to bend willingly (there should have been a radius fitting instead)...'cuz that's what caused the hose to crack. 2. Never replace just one hose in the system...'cuz the one you pick to replace is unlikely to the only one that's permeated. IF only one hose is the culprit, it's far more likely to be the pumpout hose than the head discharge hose...'cuz a hose that comes out of a tank at the bottom always has waste sitting in it to the level in the tank. Replacing only your head discharge hose didn't help much, but once you got 'em all out and all new ones in, you solved your odor problem. Replacing the toilet was a bonus that solved a separate problem. It was a lot of work, but I know you're a lot happier now!- Status