Racing beer can PHRF, if one boat strikes the stern rail of another with his bow pulpit, no or minimal damage, is it a foul and must he take his turns ?
Contact W/O damage
- Thread starter newage1461
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Most probably. No matter what tacks the boats were on, It is hard to imagine a situation where an overtaking boat (even with ROW) could not have avoided contact. If you could avoid and still touch that boat breaks rule 14.
If the boats were on same tack, then yes for SURE a violation, as a same same tack clear astern boat must stay clear (Rule 12). And then 14.
net-net: If your bow touches another boat's transom, you have turns in your immediate future.
What happened was I passed a boat approaching the windward mark, and made a port turn of about 160 degrees, with mark room right of way. The other boat turned behind me but wanted to get onto my port side, and as he turned behind me his bow pulpit struck across my stern tail. Luckily I looked over my shoulder and saw it coming and ducked out of the way.
The second question, can the other boat ignore taking the penalty if I don't protest him ?
The second question, can the other boat ignore taking the penalty if I don't protest him ?
Protests & penalty turns
Yes he can avoid turns. If you foul someone, or visa versa, and no flag is flown the other person has no incentive but good sportsmanship to do his penalty turns. You can not go back after the race and ask for protest because that does not allow the other boat to absolve themselves of the foul.
Sailors do not like to file protests. They feel it is mean and in some way demeaning to the offending party. In fact it is a learning tool for the entire fleet. I have inadvertently fouled someone and taken my turns because I knew I was wrong. I have also not protested when fouled. I usually look at it from the point of could it be dangerous if repeated against a less seasoned racer? If there was contact, the other captain is pushing the envelope and could be putting other boats at risk, or you were somewhere you shouldn't have been and you should have taken the turns.
There are several books that help explain the rules for rounding and requirements for providing room at the mark.
Butch
Yes he can avoid turns. If you foul someone, or visa versa, and no flag is flown the other person has no incentive but good sportsmanship to do his penalty turns. You can not go back after the race and ask for protest because that does not allow the other boat to absolve themselves of the foul.
Sailors do not like to file protests. They feel it is mean and in some way demeaning to the offending party. In fact it is a learning tool for the entire fleet. I have inadvertently fouled someone and taken my turns because I knew I was wrong. I have also not protested when fouled. I usually look at it from the point of could it be dangerous if repeated against a less seasoned racer? If there was contact, the other captain is pushing the envelope and could be putting other boats at risk, or you were somewhere you shouldn't have been and you should have taken the turns.
There are several books that help explain the rules for rounding and requirements for providing room at the mark.
Butch
A lot of variables. In general if your boat has a broken nose you are at fault . You are required to avoid collision if possible. Your rights take a back seat. If you are fouled you should avoid contact and protest - not hit the other boat. That said the OP asked if there has to be a protest in order for the offending boat to do turns. I think the answer is yes. And not only that, the hail of protest must be immediate and the display of the protest flag must be as soon as possible. Appeals cases have defined ASAP as pdq. Going down below to root around for your flag may not be soon enough. If someone just yells at you, which happens on race courses, that is not enough reason to take yourself out of a race by doing a 720, or retiring. They have to declare a protest, and then you can decide if you think you fouled, and do your turns, or take your chances in the room. In racing, in competitive venues, trying to intimate the competition isn't unheard of. You have to make the protester go on the record. It may not turn out the way he thought. That's the game .
I particularly don't like when a competitor protests on the course but doesn't file a protest with the RC. To me that is a bluff.
Finally, if you are the protested either do your turns, or decide to go to the room, but put it behind you and sail the rest of the race or let someone oelse control your destiny.
I particularly don't like when a competitor protests on the course but doesn't file a protest with the RC. To me that is a bluff.
Finally, if you are the protested either do your turns, or decide to go to the room, but put it behind you and sail the rest of the race or let someone oelse control your destiny.
No Blood No Foul
Many of the skippers at our club believe this is a contact sport. What is the prevalent attitude at yours? If you let him get away with it once he'll keep pushing it until someone decides they have had enough and put him into the wall or it was an honest miscalculation of his position and likely will not happen again.
Did you discuss it with the other skipper?
Many of the skippers at our club believe this is a contact sport. What is the prevalent attitude at yours? If you let him get away with it once he'll keep pushing it until someone decides they have had enough and put him into the wall or it was an honest miscalculation of his position and likely will not happen again.
Did you discuss it with the other skipper?
My understanding has always been that if you are fouled you are responsible for flagging it, whether you personally were impeded or not. The point is that in fairness to other members of the fleet, you let a sailor get away with cheating and thus let an unfair advantage stand. All fouls must be flagged. it is not like other sports where there is a referee to call fouls; you are responsible for your little bit of the field. That the is the only way to run a proper game, and it does NOT belittle the flagged skipper; he goofed, just like in basketball, and he shouldn't feel bad about the penalty. It is all part of the game, like chess.
If you had inside overlap in the zone then you had the right to make a 'seaman-like turn' at the mark. If you were clear ahead then you can do a wider 'tactical turn'. In any case, a boat behind HAS to stay clear. If he touched you with that stunt it is a foul.
Now.
You should have protested him, with a clear 'PROTEST' call and a flying of the protest flag. You don't have to have a discussion of the rules or what rule you are protesting. Save that for the room, or arbitration if your club does that.
Sailboat racing is a Corinthian sport. Even if you did not protest, the other guy have done turns. The contract is a foul, and needs no interpretation.
As others have noted, some clubs build a culture that protests are bad. They are not. They help govern a self-governing sport, much like golf. One of the best sailors I know once said 'We should protest more, and care less when it happens.' True.
I agree with protesting 100% . I just figured the guy would be a sportsman and take his turns, but I learned otherwise. He is a guy that likes to push the limits. Next time I'll just call it and be done with it..
A lot or people will wait to see if you protest before they do their turns. If you feel you were fouled, pop the flag.
From RRS 2013-2016
SPORTSMANSHIP AND THE RULES
Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules
that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle
of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will
promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire.
See Here: /http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/ISAFRRS20132016Final-[13376].pdf
SPORTSMANSHIP AND THE RULES
Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules
that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle
of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will
promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire.
See Here: /http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/ISAFRRS20132016Final-[13376].pdf