Considering a 1979 Hunter 37' Cherubini Cutter

Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
So how many times have you guys responded to this topic? I'm considering a 1979 37C. I understand the lineage there... I've read all the good, bad and ugly. But it seems to me these are issues any boat of it's vintage would have ie. leaky ports, core issues (if it leaked), noisy bulkheads...etc. I also understand a thorough will probably make me reconsider... but, here is the deal. It's 12K!

My co-captain and I have just finished a complete restoration on 1970 McGregor V222 (see "And so it begins" under the Mcgregor Sailors Forum for pics and to get an idea of our capabilities - we documented the entire nearly two-year process). We learned a lot and since the McGregor was my third boat project, we both consider ourselves pretty handy with resin and paint (Hell I rebuilt the entire keel). That being said, I ended that project by saying "never again." Now I know all boats are work, I know this one will be too. But, is it worth it? Unlike the McGregor that we spent way too much on (and knew it at the time) will this one go up in value if we make improvements? Example - We spent approximately $3500 on a free McGregor V222, I did because the sails where relatively new and the canvas on the pop was brand new and I knew my capabilities. Though at the end of the day, I spent $3500 on a $2000 boat (you get my point). That was ok with us, a lot of the expense was the trailer and motor... and if I had known about the encapsulated iron keel I would have run away, but that's another story. Point is we spent the money with eyes wide open and at the end of the day we have a fine weekender trailer sailor and will keep her forever. But, if there is, in fact a "never again" in my future we want it to be something that holds it's value or at least increases value with our upgrades.

Finally, our intention is to sail her where she is on Kentucky Lake and eventually (post-retirement), cruise her for three or four months out of the year and maybe even do the Carribean / Bahamas. So, let me have the good, the bad and the ugly. What is the equivalent of the dreaded McGregor encapsulated keel on this boat? Understanding that the equivalent would have more zeros on the final number at the end of the fix. Let me have it...
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,992
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Ok Todd. You asked for it... Here are some comparisons to help with the financial evaluation "is it worth it to cross the line in the sand - never again".

So there are boats out then and priced all over the place from $7,500 to $28,000. That your boat is close to you is a plus.
From the pictures of your boat there are a couple of immediate concerns.
Lots of goo/caulking at the mast base. Indicates possible leak issue.
Mast base1.jpg Mast base2.jpg
The motor when compared to image shown in other boats looks to have been used but may be poorly maintained.
Rust on front and flywheel. Black dust on alternator and frayed edges of fan belt.
coloration around fuel lines. Pretty blue oil filter.
Compare to images of other boats in list.
Engine1.jpg
While not deal breakers for a handyman they may be reasons to negotiates the value.

No info a on the sails or the age/condition of the standing rigging. Mast removal and replacement of standing rigging can cost from $5000 up. You will want to know the mast and rigging are in good condition if planning a passage into the Caribbean.

Just some quick observations.
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
John,

Thank you so much for the wisdom and insight. The part I didn't include in my original post was the fact that we don't have to do this tomorrow. We have a plan and will happily sail the McGregor for the next five years and log time and experience. We like the idea of a semi-early retirement but, are a few years away from creating the re-curing passive income needed to cruise. We are pretty handy, we don't mind sanding, varnish and bottom paint... even deck paint and some electrical and mechanical (general maintenance). These skills to me are just part of the lifestyle and even relaxing in a weird way. I just don't want to get into a money and time trap. While restoring Sea Gypsy over the past two years, I can remember thinking "all I want to do is sail." And had it been simply a matter of paint, I would have splashed her without it and dealt with the ugly paint job later. But, it wasn't It was a huge job pushing my skill level and comfort level to its breaking point (nearly). Though in the end, it was worth it. I learned a ton about resin, various paints and techniques, I'd rather avoid that experience again.

That being said. It's great to have a resource like you and this forum. I promise the wisdom will not be wasted. Your post alone, gave me pause. "Hmmm silicon around the mast, if this thing has been leaking for 10 years who knows what's going on..." and "hmmmm poorly maintained engine... how much to rebuild a Yanmar?" If the owner is willing to entertain a six or seven grand offer... maybe... maybe. Based on your observations alone, a credible survivor would shred the boat or tell you what it's worth. Who knows, maybe she's the one. Maybe the owner is ready to call it a day, she's been on the market for over a year. But, I hear everything your saying and so far I'm leaning toward no thank you. I do want to see her. More for getting a feel for the layout. I'll more than likely shoot a lowball offer while I'm looking. But, more than likely nothing will become of it. We currently own three Sunfish, a Snark, a Thistle and the aforementioned McGregor V222. In the past I've owned an O'Day DSII, A Hobie Cat, a previous Sunfish and a Salt Marine 19' gaff rig. Every one needed some level of work.

All that being said. I just love these boats. They fit all my criteria and are beautiful. And, I have been searching for years... literally years (some people read comics or play fantasy sports I look at sailboats). For awhile Choey Lee's would catch my eye... then I would do the homework. Nope "leaky teakies." Then another "classic model." Formosa nope, too expensive and a maintenance nightmare. I grew up on the water and love the classic lines. More recently I wised up. I decided a newer boat (1990's - Early 2000's) would mean less maintenance and better technology. Well a 1998 Hunter 310 is $35,000 and arguably not blue water capable (not that that is a deal breaker). A 1996 Hunter 33.5 is 40k on the cheap side. A 1999 Catalina is still 100k... you get my point. Then I found the Cherubini's - I was hooked. So, this may be a long process, but evan though she is close unless the owner is willing to give her away, I'm probalbly going to look elsewhere. But, there's a good chance my "never again" will be a 37C.
 

Blaise

.
Jan 22, 2008
359
Hunter 37-cutter Bradenton
I have owned Midnight Sun since new. After 40 years of ocean racing, there is nothing I don't know about these boats. Please read my boat review, then feel free to call me if you like. 941.518.8815. Rhere is going to be a huge difference betwen a forty year old boat that has been maintained, and one that has not.
Blaise
 
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Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Thanks Blaise... I have a feeling this one is a "pig in a poke" but who knows though. Eyes wide open. It's amazing what people think things are worth. I've made enough mistakes now to avoid a few, not all but most. If this thing has sat in the water for six years that's another issue... add it up!
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,523
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
The single biggest issue on our boats of that era is water penetration. If you can get your hands on a moisture meter, it will tell you where you might have problems, and their extent. The only serious problem on our boat was the mast step. Core wood was rotten 8” to 18” away from the step. A professional fix by experienced fiberglass folks cost $800 in 2002. The key thing on the engine is compression - almost anything else is easy to replace.

Careful inspection of the standing rigging with a focus on the fixtures will tell you if there is life left in it. Stainless wire can last indefinitely in fresh water. We replaced ours after 35 years, but there were no serious issues even then.

If there are sails, they will probably get you through the first year or two. And you will probably want to replace them as you have the funds. If there is a local sailmaker, they would probably assess your sails for you. (Mine did.)

In fresh water, tankage may not be a problem. Both our water and diesel tanks are doing fine after 41 years. But it’s worth checking them for leaks.

Electronics are probably marginal or worse. But we have cruised over 7,000 nm on the Great Lakes with just a depth gauge, a radio, and a handheld charting gps. I think everything else is “nice to have” for some folks.

Everything else is probably straightforward to fix or replace. And if it’s able to sail now, you can refurbish, and cruise at the same time. We did.

We included a survey of our boat in our purchase contract, so the surveyer did all of the assessments above, except the engine. His survey gave us our maintenance schedule for the next 5 years, and the confidence to use the boat right away.

The 37c is a magnificent cruising boat - good luck with your decision.
 
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Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
David,
Thanks. I think I've made my decision, at least on the model. If not this 37C maybe another. Though this one is close and convenient. If we could sail a little and fix a little, that would be the best option for us. Ultimately we would have 20k in the boat I know, but small doses over five years or so while enjoying the boat would be best. I just don't want to pull it and have it set for three years... two was hard enough and that's was an old McGregor.
 

Blaise

.
Jan 22, 2008
359
Hunter 37-cutter Bradenton
One last thing to add. I would advise on getting the deep draft model. There is a great difference between the two. They both have the same rudder. most have bent rudder shafts. The keel is a couple of feet longer on the shoal draft boats. They don't as quickly. But the biggest difference is the way they sail. The shoal draft boats track a little better off the wind, but the real difference is sailing to weather. There is NO comparison.
Blaise
 
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Jun 8, 2004
994
C&C Frigate 36 St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
Listen to Blaise - he knows the Hunter 37C better than anyone. Reading his post, I think he was emailing from a phone - that's when my messages end up full of typos anyway. I think he is saying avoid the shallow draft model (4') since these ones have the keel & rudder at the same depth and the rudder shaft often gets bent in a grounding. The 5'1" draft keel protects the rudder more. Also, deeper keel = better performance. If you do a search here in The Cherubini Hunters forum on"Hunter 37C Problems" you will know about 90% of the problems endemic to this model. Since you have restored other boats, you already know many of the problem areas in any old fiberglass sailboat anyway. PS - don't worry about the white goo around the mast; that is just an ineffective attempt to seal around the partners (the mast is keel-stepped)...easily cured with a fresh pour of Spartite. The diesel is the 2QM20 model. Some blue water owners have found them a bit under-powered. After 1980 the H37C was equipped with a 3QM30, or even bigger diesels. All in all, if this boat is brought up to a good state, it is very capable of meeting your stated cruising requirements.
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Thanks, everyone, for your advice and input. I made the three-hour trek to have a look at her. I pick my kids up close by once or twice a month so, it wasn't a special trip. That being said, I'm glad it wasn't a trip entirely to see the boat.

This girl is in serious need of a full restoration. I approach every boat objectively (as best I can being a lover of every and all boats especially sailboats), I've learned my lessons the hard way. When a seller says "a little paint and TLC" run away. Twenty-two feet is the largest boat I've done, but I can imagine the work and expense only intensifies with length. In fact, I know it does having grown up around yards and marinas.

I do think, however for someone with the means and time she could be a good deal. The broker is asking $12,000 and I suspect someone could get her for half that or nothing. The slip fees are racking up to a tune of almost 4K a
year. Then there is the insurance etc., etc...


IMG_7446.JPG


IMG_7447.JPG


I thought I would let the group know where she is and her status. At the very least it's another HC37 tracked down and with any luck, someone will take up the cause and bring her back to Bristol Fashion

IMG_7475.JPG


I'm not sure if this is her HIN or the Coast Guard doc. number but for anyone keeping score here you go.

Now from what I saw, she has the original ports and is taking in moisture at the base of the mast:

Image-1-9.jpg


Image-1-8.jpg


The interior had that "I've been leaking" smell but, all the bilges were dry. I noticed "moisture beads" around at least one port, though there was no standing water of any sort.

The broker claims the engine is "winterized." I find that hard to believe as she looks as though she hasn't had a soul on her for years. Based on the other "deferred maintenance" I would be surprised if the owner spent the money to winterize the engine.

I can usually get a sense of how much maintenance has been ignored by looking at the deck. This one tells a story of an older owner, perhaps with failing health. The running rigging is mossed over, there is corrosion on a lot of the components etc..

IMG_7491.PNG


IMG_7492.PNG


Image-1-10.jpg


Despite all these negatives, If the price was right (free or nearly free) she might be worth taking the plunge. I just hate seeing this classic go down. She deserves to be sailed and to have an owner that loves her. Even old sailboats need love! I'm going to give the owner a call and see if he would be open to letting her go to someone who would be in a position to do what needs to be done, that's just not me right now. And I suspect what needs to be done will take two years on the hard and about 20K to do it right.
 

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Oct 22, 2014
20,992
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Todd... While she is a tempting idea... I have grown to believe that everyone has "One Boat Project" in their lifetime.
so in the words of the Shark Tank Investors... "I'm out."
 
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dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,373
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Todd... While she is a tempting idea... I have grown to believe that everyone has "One Boat Project" in their lifetime.
so in the words of the Shark Tank Investors... "I'm out."
I wish I had read this note some time ago. If only I had known "one boat project per lifetime".....

dj
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Indeed JS - Indeed! I think we all kind of deep down know that... but why is it when we see one we start running the numbers in our heads. The little boat guy in our brain starts poking and prodding. "It's not much, a year max, a little yard time, paint..." I guess I got lucky restoring my McGregor in a sense. It's a cheap trailer sailor and that took nearly two years and way to much money. It was my third restoration, but there is a world of difference in a trailer sailor or day sailor and a 30 + foot cruiser. My hope is to find our next boat, the retire and sail a lot boat in a condition that doesn't require years of work and thousands in dock fees and material. I don't mind a little paint and epoxy but, I really want to sail the next one when I get it and not stare at it for years wondering when I'll finish.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,992
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
My hope is to find our next boat, the retire and sail a lot boat in a condition that doesn't require years of work and thousands in dock fees and material.
Ahhh the Holy Grail.
May your search be fruitful, your path wide and easy, and that you choose wisely.
 
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