complete plumbing options

[sailormanbigd]

Now that the morning temps are getting alittle cooler I am going to start back on "Free Willey" the 33 morgan OI formerly freeboat project. I will finish glassing the floor joists and lay the floor and glass it in. Before i close it all up except for the usual hatch access, i would like to lay the basic plumbing for the head and galley. I have been vasillating between footpump and 12V pressure pump, also between 10 gal pump sprayer and real shower.
I am leaning toward a 12v system with H/C pressure shower and backup manual pump for the two sinks. So, can i use standard 1/2in pvc pipe, does the pump go between the 50 gal fresh water tank and the tee to the head sink/shower and how does the manual pump get water supply if the electric pump is upstream and how does the hot water side get pressure if the pump is in the cold water supply line-two pumps? I suppose if its ok i could just lay 3-4 pvc pipes under the floor and connect it up when i figure it out. I have a blank slate for design of systems and want a simple fool proof system. I plan on spending more time on the hook than tied to the dock. If someone knows of a good pump and source for purchase it would be appreciated as well. The solar shower and pump sprayer are always going to be back-up. Patrick

 

[Stu Jackson]

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...1151&catalogId=10001&page=Fresh-water-Systems

 

[SamLust]

Lay in systems for both. I would suggest you look into PEX rather than PVC. Flexible, color coded, forgiving, can be very easy to work with. Can be purchased at Lowes, HD or plumbing supply house.

 

[sailormanbigd]

Pex Tubing/pipe

hi Sam i googled pex tubeing, it reminds me of the grey plastic water line stuff i used to use. I would think heavy pvc would be better long run. thicker, fairly kink resistant, cheap, multi/multi fitting config, etc. Besides i am comfy with working with pvc pipe, i had some trouble with compression fittings on the grey plastic pipe leaking? i think i want the rigidity of pvc, but that is why i asked here. Will check out HD or Lowes next i'm there-thanks.
Stu, thanks for the link. Good stuff, would love a deck shower/wash setup as well. Got a bit scared about pressure switch thing...when pressure drops then pump kicks on, what if there's a leak? Oh, I am more confused than ever. I have Peggy's book, will reference that again-been awhile since i read it. Thanks guys

 

[sailormanbigd]

maybe i should just get a couple of foot pumps insted of pressure, kindof scares me. Anyone take showers with foot pump shower?

 

[Steve Dion]

I would recommend a Jabsco VSD Sensor fresh water pump. If you have a Camping World or other RV place you can save 30-40% over WM prices. These pumps are very quite and have been trouble free in my last two boats.

I would also consider a raw water foot pump for the galley. It is also nice to have a fresh water shower in the cockpit too if you have room.

If you have long straight runs under the cabin sole you can run a larger piece of PVC and then run the Pex tubing thru these chases. You may also want to look at the Whale system for tubing and fittings. I have not used this stuff so I have no opinion on it other than what I have seen advertised.

 

[sailormanbigd]

so steve if i get it right, you think i should run say 1in pvc for conduit for the pex? i do have large, long straight run under floor, but why not just pvc pipe and fittings? Does it get brittle or something? I would use high pressure stuff? for hot water?

 

[navigator97]

Sailorman, Putting a fresh water pump with pressure sensing just after the fresh water tank, will pressurize the whole fresh water system. It also pressurizes the 'cold in' at the hot water heater, thus giving you pressurized 'hot out' to the sinks & shower. That is how our water system is set up, and no prblems. While it is a 1990 boat we have had it for 12 seasons now. When you draw water the pump senses a pressure drop and turns on - when up to pressure it turns off. Other than worn sink valve washers, we havent had any leaks. Works slick.

Dick, S/V Puffin
1990 H-33.5

 

[sailormanbigd]

the pump looks good Steve, thanks

 

[sailormanbigd]

i was hopeing for a salty sailor to spec the perfect system whetever it may be

 

[txtowman]

I would opt for flexible piping. PVC glue is unforgiving when it gets bothered. I have 3 miles of 1" PVC waterline here on the farm. Each year I have at least one issue with broken bond on glued connections. I am a big fan of pex. It is used in every travel trailer I have ever seen in the last 5 years. Now it is color coded for hot and cold! Also agree on the pump suggestion.

 

[Steve Dion]

The reason I was suggesting PVC for the long run is if you do get a leak, you can just pull the Pex out of the chase without pulling up the entire cabin sole. I do not think you want to deal with transitions from Pex to PVC back and forth.

The Pex or Whale systems have a complete system of parts/fittings. You can end up with long runs without any fittings, which is where they usually end up leaking. The Pex system is available at most RV centers and hardware stores which is usually much cheaper than Marine stores.

 

[sailormanbigd]

ok, now i am gettin it, one pump for hot and cold, pex tubeing for fewer fittings and no glue joints to let go, hardware store parts. THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! I practicaly have it all built in my mind, good stuff thanks all. Can you use standard plumbing fixtures-head excluded, faucets an such

 

[txtowman]

should be able to. Also check out the "outdoor shower" setups for RV's. Home depot has a surprisingly good selection of fittings. I also recommend ALL pex be the same size. It makes it easy to keep spare fittings as they will all be the same size!

 

[navigator97]

Sailorman, On the plumbing fixtures for the sinks I found both vanity sink and Galley sink fixtures. The Galley sink was a 'laundry' fawcet and was a Price Pfister from Lowes. The vanity fawcet was a Glaicer Bay from Home Depot They were both 4" centers. Hope this helps. They were each around $30 .

Dick, S/V Puffin
H-33.5

 

[Steve Dion]

Yes, the fixtures are all the same. You may have some issues when it comes in a below deck shower (not many fixtures that work in the boat). The only other issue is sometimes the sink drains. It just takes some creativity.

 

[SamLust]

The gray stuff you remember was called polybutylene or something like that and it was awful. Got installed in droves of new construction houses and after a few years leaked at joints inside walls. Big law suits. PEX is different. Easy to work with, tough, very hard to screw it up and make it leak. With the push fit joint fittings you can intermix PEX, copper and PVC if you want. Specific end fittings allow you to adapt to fixtures.

Marine plumbing fixtures are for the most part cheapened overpriced versions of domestic fixtures. I used an off the shelf delta faucet from the Depot on the galley sink on my Hunter 33. Has worked just sandy for 6 years so far and isn't even corroded.

Notes on PVC pipe. while it seems the joints are glued, and the goop you use is called glue, it really is a welding process. The glue attacks the PVC and liquifies it, producing a weld when the pieces are forced together. I have done hundreds of PVC joints and have only had failured where I screwed up. The mistakes seem to be not cutting the tube square so the joint doesn't slide all the way together, not priming, which is actually a cleaning process, not enough glue coverage, not forcing the joint together far enough, (some real amateurs cost me a lot of time end money on that one one time) and pressurizing the system before the required cure time (24 to 72 hours). I have gotten to like PEX. Buy the push-fit joints, cut tube, push together, done. And, if you need to, you can disassemble and reassemble the joints. The technique for doing that with PVC is with a saw, new fittings and glue.

 

[kenn]

I'm using PEX for parts of our heating system. I hadn't previously thought about boats, but, yes, PEX would be a good choice on boats.

It's more flexible than PVC, so it can achieve tighter bends. Also, there's less need to have splices or elbows in awkward places.Ideally, all your PEX terminations can be in easily-accessed areas, which simplifies troubleshooting and repairs.

I'm not certain about this, but I believe PEX has better long-term resistance to oils, fuel, etc. which would mean surviving longer in a bilge area.

[edit - Nigel Calder's book makes reference to polyethylene piping (aka PEX) . He likes it, and has only one caveat: because it's usually translucent, algae growth is possible if the water sits for an extended period and light reaches the pipe. ]