Comparing 30s

Nov 22, 2021
5
Catalina 30 Lake Norman
Trying to compare a '86 Mk I and a '91 Mk II.

Both have been freshwater boats on a large, inland lake (not the Great Lakes). Having read maybe a little too much about the 'Catalina Smile,' am I maybe a little too paranoid about that given that both boats have been in freshwater their entire lives, and 'heavy air' for either of these boats would be 15-20 kts?

I had an opportunity to 'sea trial' the Mk II in light airs with a very experienced friend a few days ago. Was generally impressed with the condition of the sails (large genoa, fully battened loose footed main). Running rigging was a little bit rough, traveler was somehow locked to the center position (almost like someone drilled a hole in the track and bolted it there). Interior wasn't terrible, but some water damage on the port main bulkhead at the level of the settee and cabin sole.

I'll be taking a much closer look at the Mk I early next week. Oddly enough they're in adjacent slips.

Asking price of the Mk I is about 75% of the Mk II, but the owner of the II has shown a little willingness to come down, although not to my initial offer.

Use case is Lake Boat, summer raft ups, occasional fall weather overnight on the hook. Really want to drop a Webasto FCF in whichever one I pick up for summer dockside use.

Any thoughts appreciated.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Look at each of the boats with fresh thoughts. No preconceived ideas. Take photos so that you minimize the bias, havign the ability to look at the images after you get home. This helps in evaluating what is there not what you think is there.

Look at the boats with the idea of how you plan to use them. Select the boat that will best fit your planned needs.

It is easier to have the features you desire than to convert a boat into what you think you need.
 
Aug 2, 2009
641
Catalina 315 Muskegon
When did Catalina remedy the smile? 86?...I can't remember. And, didn't the smile occur because they used a plywood spacer between the hull and the top of the keel, which gets saturated with water? And the complete cure for the smile is to remove and replace the plywood, which requires keel removal?

Does either of your candidates currently have the smile?

Knowing what little I know about the smile, I would put an emphasis on purchasing a post-plywood 30 unless I knew a particular plywood era 30 had a professional replacement of the plywood.
 
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Jun 8, 2004
2,855
Catalina 320 Dana Point
Date I most often see is "pre-'88" models for the use of plywood in the keel stub.
 

Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,649
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
I believe @Calif. Ted is right. At least according to the Catalina instructions for repairing the wood keel stub. That document says Pre-88. 88 was also when Catalina stopped using wood as the compression post support, another huge headache if that wooden support gets wet and starts to rot.
Not sure when the traveler changed from a curved track to a straight track but that is another improvement to look for. It was also moved forward a bit allowing for a larger dodger which is being talked about in another recent thread.
The Mk II with T cockpit was also the first to get the walk through transom. I think that appeared in 89. I wouldn't buy a C30 without one.
I think it was 1990 when production moved from California to Florida and quality of construction was supposedly improved, another reason to go with a post 90s boat.

Based on these points I would go with the 91 model even if the condition wasn't quite as good as the 86. I'd rather replace the running rigging and traveler than do the plywood keel stub or rotten compression support repair.

Here is a document showing C30 upgrades over the years. I think I found it on the C30 Association website.
 

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Nov 22, 2021
5
Catalina 30 Lake Norman
'88-'89 is the time period for the Keel material change (away from wood) so the '91 would not have the issue. That said, these are lightly used Lake Boats that have never been subject to the stresses of Coastal or Offshore sailing. When I get on the Mk I I'll definitely be taking a hard look at the keel bolts.

The '86 does have the curved traveler which will be a pain to deal with. Neither have the walk through transom, unfortunately. Truthfully, unless one is going to spend the scratch to move a boat onto the lake, good luck. There are a few at this same club that have that, but none for sale.

The '91 owner was asking 20K, but willing to come down to 17.5. The '86 is listed at 14.9K.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Wow. My '91 Hunter 30T NADAs for much more than that. Are they that different from the C30?
 

Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,649
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
Sounds like being lake locked is working to your benefit as to price.
You asked if you're being paranoid about the smile. I don't think so, despite both being lake boats.
A poorly maintained freshwater boat could still have a wet bilge and over time allow water seep around the keel bolts into the wood.

I'd still go with the 91 for the other features the 5 year younger boat has to offer.
 
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Jan 18, 2016
782
Catalina 387 Dana Point
...
Based on these points I would go with the 91 model even if the condition wasn't quite as good as the 86. I'd rather replace the running rigging and traveler than do the plywood keel stub or rotten compression support repair.
...
Having been the owner of a 1980 C-30, I completely agree with the above. You can also update the running rigging in steps which makes it appear to be less painful in the wallet and keeps the boat in the water. Water damage of the bulkhead is very likely a leaking port. Either the opening one in the head or the fixed one above the settee. If not that, maybe a leaky stanchion. Those are pretty easy fixes: remove and rebed.

Throwing some $ at Garhauer solves all kinds of issues. See the other thread on travelers.

Having BTDT, my #1 sail control on my C-30's main was the traveler. Boat couldn't get out of it's own way with the old curved one: it was impossible to adjust. The Garhauer one was a joy.

Sail condition could tip me the other way. I put ~$3K into all new sails on my C-30. So that gets to be real money pretty quickly. Unfortunate the '91 doesn't have the walk-thru transom. That's a great feature.
 
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Feb 26, 2004
22,770
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Water damage of the bulkhead is very likely a leaking port. Either the opening one in the head or the fixed one above the settee. If not that, maybe a leaky stanchion. Those are pretty easy fixes: remove and rebed.
Most likely is a chainplate. Cure is correct.
For that difference in price, the newer boat is an easy choice.





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This comes from this sbo thread by weekendrken:



1992 Catalina 30



Also: www.catalina30.com
 
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Jan 18, 2016
782
Catalina 387 Dana Point
Most likely is a chainplate. Cure is correct.
For that difference in price, the newer boat is an easy choice.
Aha! Yes, Stu is correct! Chainplates were one of the very few places my boat _didn't_ leak when I got it. Forgot about em. Early MK1's had a poor design that was later improved.
 
Nov 22, 2021
5
Catalina 30 Lake Norman
Was able to get below on the '86 today, overall a much cleaner boat without any of the water damage issues of the '91. Fabrics in much better shape, although no cockpit cushions. Sails about the same, although not a fully battened main. Keel bolts looked good, and the pin on the head door aligned perfectly with the strike plate that's on the compression post ('91 did not and door didn't latch).

The headsail sheet car tracks are all the way outboard on the toe rail, but a prior owner added a pair of small tracks on the coach roof just inboard of the teak grab rail. Maybe for some kind of inhauler set up?

I had a very experienced friend with me; we both liked the '86 moreso than the '91.
 
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Nov 22, 2021
5
Catalina 30 Lake Norman
Wow. My '91 Hunter 30T NADAs for much more than that. Are they that different from the C30?
Sounds like being lake locked is working to your benefit as to price.
There's definitely some interesting dynamics with regard to lake pricing, which has a lot to do with the several thousand it would take to get a C30 on or off the lake, so these boats end up staying lake bound their entire lives. The '91 has spent its whole life here, don't know about the '86.

That also means that one also has to consider carefully what features one maintains on these boats. I've seen more than a few listings where the owner removed the gimbaled stove and dropped in a mini fridge or something like that, simply because these boats spend 99% of their time on shore power. If one is only day sailing, who needs a macerator pump? I've seen another C30 where the entire black tank and head was removed to be replaced by a simple porta potty. Makes complete sense, given the environment.