just got a Sunfish Daysailer 16 and it looks like a mirror image of the Oday Daysailer. Anyone have experience to back up that observation? Looking for manuals, parts etc.
Compare Oday Daysailer to the Sunfish Daysailer
- Thread starter ddodgen
- Start date
Never heard of a "Sunfish Daysailer 16." It's not a boat listed as manufactured by Alcort or AMF, the 1st two manufacturers of the Sunfish.
Do you mean the AMF Sunbird? http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5921
Here is the sailboatdata.com listing for the Day Sailer: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3338
Do you mean the AMF Sunbird? http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5921
Here is the sailboatdata.com listing for the Day Sailer: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3338
Thanks for the information. The hull number for this boat is SLI14091I394 which I was told is for a 1994 Sunfish Laser Inc manufacturer sail#14091
Notes from the USCG MIC database for "SLI" Manufacturer Identification Code:
(SLI) WAS SHINLEVER BOAT CO, LUTTRELL, TN; OOB 11/83, PHONE NUMBER (401) 683-5900. BSC 73 UPDATE 920219; WEST SHORE RD PORTSMOUTH RI 02871 SOLD TRADEMARK TO FRANK M. WEEKS (SEE MIC FWY). SUNFISH OOB ASSETS ACQUIRED BY ESCAPE SAILBOAT (NEW) 970313. 03/05/13 REISSUED MIC.
http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic_detail.aspx?id=SLI
--------------
The note references MIC "FWY" (Four Winds Yachts) having Sunfish assets.
MIC PREVIOUSLY ASSIGNED TO FOUR WINDS YACHT & SERVICE OOB 11/77 SEE MIC (SLI) ACQUIRED TRADEMARK FROM SUNFISH LASER. OOB 970929 PER CG-5093. 12/28/2001 STILL IN BUSINESS PER RNI. OWNS RIGHTS TO FORCE 5 SAILBOATS
http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic_detail.aspx?id=FWY
I'm still not sure what boat you have, but in 1991, Sunfish Laser, Inc. was formed after the bankruptcy of Pearson, who had owned the Sunfish. This from the class association history of the Sunfish: http://www.sunfishclass.org/about/the-sunfish-class-history
It might be good for you to post a picture what what you have.
I can tell you that if you have a Sunfish, it's a world of difference from a Day Sailer...
Brian
It might be good for you to post a picture what what you have.
I can tell you that if you have a Sunfish, it's a world of difference from a Day Sailer...
Brian
Lets try some photos. Will be picking up the boat this weekend so what pictures I have show at least I have some cleaning to do if not more.
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Also found a NADA guide that shows a 1994 SUNFISH/LASER INC DAYSAILER pricing from $2980 to over $6800.
I finally pieced it together. There were a lot of builders of Day Sailers. The class association website has a list of sail numbers which shows the various builders: http://daysailer.org/tech_hullindex.php So, for 3 years in the early 90's, Sunfish Laser, Inc. built Day Sailer 1s.
Now that I know what kind of boat you have, I'm gonna shut up. It's Sunbird22358 you want to talk to: http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/member.php?u=74632 He's the local Day Sailer expert here.
Brian
Now that I know what kind of boat you have, I'm gonna shut up. It's Sunbird22358 you want to talk to: http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/member.php?u=74632 He's the local Day Sailer expert here.
Brian
Thanks Brian
It helps to find out that I am not going crazy and to have documentation. Appreciate the time.
It helps to find out that I am not going crazy and to have documentation. Appreciate the time.
This day sailor design was created by Uffa Fox and the original did not have a little cuddy cabin. George O'Day took the design and had the cuddy raised cabin added which actually slowed the boat down a bit with the extra weight (the original planed nicely) and called it the O'Day DS. Many, many companies have built the same design including Sunfish/Laser as suggested above.
The best source for info on the SLI DS IV might be Cape Cod Shipbuilding, the current builder of that boat. www.capecodshipbuilding.com
Also check out the Day Sailer Association; www.daysailer.org
The Day Sailer built by SLI (Sunfish Laser) was a pretty good boat quality wise, but definitely geared a bit more to the racing guys than us "daysailing" Day Sailier owners. The tiny hatch to access the cuddy is a great feature if you expect to capsize a lot like racers do, since it seals the cuddy better than the larger opening on the DS II or DS III, but access to the cuddy for storage suffered. CCSB has enlarged that opening to give much better access, still smaller than hte cuddy opening on my DS II, but a lot better than hte SLI setup.
The DS has been built by several builders over the years, well, the original DS (DS I) has been, O'DAY built it first in 1958 and continued with the same basic open design until 1970. For 1971 they decided to make the boat more "self-rescuing" (designed to be easier for the crew to right the boat and keep sailing after a rare capsize without outside help) by making the cockpit a part of the deck molding and reducing hte size of the cuddy opening, This also made the cockpit semi-self-bailing. The Day Sailer Class Association was not told of this upgrade before production changed and was upset since they felt it affected the "one-Design" aspect of the boat (new boats were now different fro mold boats). O'Day was forced to continue building hte original design alongside hte new "DS II". At the same time, a few DS Is were built by Cam-Am Sailcraft using hulls and decks molded by O'DAY under a DSA contract. Eventually, around 1977, O'DAY decided they did not want to build both versions and the DSA sought out a new builder for the DS I (incidently, the DSA did accept the DS II design as "class-legal" during hte 1971 model year), I think the next builder was Rebel Industries in Florida and they built the DS I based on a slightly modified version of the early (1958-60) O'DAY design. Rebel merged or was bought out by Spindrift around 1980 or so and Spindrift took over the DS I production. In 1983 O'DAY got in trouble with the DSA again by supstituting a different rudder on the DS II (blade was deeper) and they had to go back to the original blade shape but with a new upper section. In 1985 O'DAY really ticked-off the DSA when htey introduced the new "DS III" for the 1986 model year. The DS III was basically the same as the DS II but with more freeboard in the stern. Overall a better boat that than the earlier Day Sailer models (DS I and DS II) due to that increase in freeboard and with a roller-furling jib and jiffy-reefing on the main, easier to sail. However, that increase in freeboard was enought to make them non-Class-Legal, since hte hull design had been changed. The DSA never recognized the DS III as a true Day Sailer. Well, O'DAY still sold a lot of them! With the demise of O'DAY in May of 1989, the Day Sailer III molds were bought buy the Small-Boat Division of PEARSON Yachts and were joined in that division by the old AMF Alcort designs (Sunfish, Zuma, Force 5, Puffer, and Trac-Catamarans) that Pearson had also recently purchased from bankruptcy. With the demise of Pearson in February of 1991, the Small Boat Division was sold off and became SUNFISH-LASER Inc. This company had also bought the US building rights to the LASER class. In late 1991 or early 1992 SLI tried to get the DSA to accept the DS III as Class-Legal, but no dice. The DSA instead worked with them to create an updated version of the original DS I, and basically the result was a design that added the easier self-rescue feature of hte DS II to the original DS design. The cockpit was virtually the full depth of the hul like on the DS I, but sealed to the deck like a DS II or DS III. It was not self-bailing, but at least it did not flood the whole hull if swamped. The cuddy was closed off by a full bulkhead with a small access hatch to prevent flooding in a capsize. Two levels of rigging were offered, a Racing version with all kinds of racing type rigging (basically what a racing skipper would have put on a DS I) and a "Daysailing" version for the recreational type sailor. The CB was now controlled by a lever like the DS I had always had in place of the line-controlled CB of the DS II and DS III. Around 1994, SLI wanted to concentrate on Sunfish and Laser production and contacted the DSA to find a new builder for the DS IV (well ,the DSA still calls it a DS I..... but to me it is a different boat, hence I use the SLI coined "DS IV"). That led to Cape Cod Shipbuilding becoming hte builder (the molds though, are still owned by the DSA) in 1995. They continue to be the sole builder of the class, and build both a "Daysailing" model and a "Racing" model. Big difference is again the style of rigging setup including a "keel-stepped" and tapered mast on the race boat and a hinged on deck mast for the daysailing model.
Cape Cod Shipbuilding makes a very nicely finished ,quality boat and they get a pretty good price for them too! Around $12,000 for the daysailing model, higher for the racing model. I like the looks, but not the price! My biggest complaint is that the DSA insists that the boat be geared more to the racer, not the casual sailor like me, and it shows in the lack of mooring cleats (which O'DAY had as standard) and the need for an optional bracket to mount an outboard (O'Day had a molded-in "kicker-pit" in the afterdeck to allow clamping hte outboard right to the transom on the DS I and the DS II and III had no afterdeck allowing the motor to be easily clamped to the transom with no need for a bracket (I did add a motor board to my boat to angle the outboard better on the slightly reversed transom angle of the DS ).
I do have to disagree with the above post that claims the DS will not plane as Uffa Fos intended. Yes, George O'day did add (against Fox's wishes!) the cuddy, but as long as you don't stow too much heavy gear in the bow...... the DS will get up on plane on a broad reach or run under the right conditions (a little following sea helps a lot!), and I've done it a few times!
Well, long story.... but that is where the SLI boats fit in.
PS: O'DAY also upgraded the Widgeon and Javelin in 1971 just like the DS, making all 3 more self-rescuing, and for a breif time, they even refered to the "new" designs as WIDGEON II and JAVELIN II. I guess hte Javelin Class didn't object as loudly as the DSA?
Also check out the Day Sailer Association; www.daysailer.org
The Day Sailer built by SLI (Sunfish Laser) was a pretty good boat quality wise, but definitely geared a bit more to the racing guys than us "daysailing" Day Sailier owners. The tiny hatch to access the cuddy is a great feature if you expect to capsize a lot like racers do, since it seals the cuddy better than the larger opening on the DS II or DS III, but access to the cuddy for storage suffered. CCSB has enlarged that opening to give much better access, still smaller than hte cuddy opening on my DS II, but a lot better than hte SLI setup.
The DS has been built by several builders over the years, well, the original DS (DS I) has been, O'DAY built it first in 1958 and continued with the same basic open design until 1970. For 1971 they decided to make the boat more "self-rescuing" (designed to be easier for the crew to right the boat and keep sailing after a rare capsize without outside help) by making the cockpit a part of the deck molding and reducing hte size of the cuddy opening, This also made the cockpit semi-self-bailing. The Day Sailer Class Association was not told of this upgrade before production changed and was upset since they felt it affected the "one-Design" aspect of the boat (new boats were now different fro mold boats). O'Day was forced to continue building hte original design alongside hte new "DS II". At the same time, a few DS Is were built by Cam-Am Sailcraft using hulls and decks molded by O'DAY under a DSA contract. Eventually, around 1977, O'DAY decided they did not want to build both versions and the DSA sought out a new builder for the DS I (incidently, the DSA did accept the DS II design as "class-legal" during hte 1971 model year), I think the next builder was Rebel Industries in Florida and they built the DS I based on a slightly modified version of the early (1958-60) O'DAY design. Rebel merged or was bought out by Spindrift around 1980 or so and Spindrift took over the DS I production. In 1983 O'DAY got in trouble with the DSA again by supstituting a different rudder on the DS II (blade was deeper) and they had to go back to the original blade shape but with a new upper section. In 1985 O'DAY really ticked-off the DSA when htey introduced the new "DS III" for the 1986 model year. The DS III was basically the same as the DS II but with more freeboard in the stern. Overall a better boat that than the earlier Day Sailer models (DS I and DS II) due to that increase in freeboard and with a roller-furling jib and jiffy-reefing on the main, easier to sail. However, that increase in freeboard was enought to make them non-Class-Legal, since hte hull design had been changed. The DSA never recognized the DS III as a true Day Sailer. Well, O'DAY still sold a lot of them! With the demise of O'DAY in May of 1989, the Day Sailer III molds were bought buy the Small-Boat Division of PEARSON Yachts and were joined in that division by the old AMF Alcort designs (Sunfish, Zuma, Force 5, Puffer, and Trac-Catamarans) that Pearson had also recently purchased from bankruptcy. With the demise of Pearson in February of 1991, the Small Boat Division was sold off and became SUNFISH-LASER Inc. This company had also bought the US building rights to the LASER class. In late 1991 or early 1992 SLI tried to get the DSA to accept the DS III as Class-Legal, but no dice. The DSA instead worked with them to create an updated version of the original DS I, and basically the result was a design that added the easier self-rescue feature of hte DS II to the original DS design. The cockpit was virtually the full depth of the hul like on the DS I, but sealed to the deck like a DS II or DS III. It was not self-bailing, but at least it did not flood the whole hull if swamped. The cuddy was closed off by a full bulkhead with a small access hatch to prevent flooding in a capsize. Two levels of rigging were offered, a Racing version with all kinds of racing type rigging (basically what a racing skipper would have put on a DS I) and a "Daysailing" version for the recreational type sailor. The CB was now controlled by a lever like the DS I had always had in place of the line-controlled CB of the DS II and DS III. Around 1994, SLI wanted to concentrate on Sunfish and Laser production and contacted the DSA to find a new builder for the DS IV (well ,the DSA still calls it a DS I..... but to me it is a different boat, hence I use the SLI coined "DS IV"). That led to Cape Cod Shipbuilding becoming hte builder (the molds though, are still owned by the DSA) in 1995. They continue to be the sole builder of the class, and build both a "Daysailing" model and a "Racing" model. Big difference is again the style of rigging setup including a "keel-stepped" and tapered mast on the race boat and a hinged on deck mast for the daysailing model.
Cape Cod Shipbuilding makes a very nicely finished ,quality boat and they get a pretty good price for them too! Around $12,000 for the daysailing model, higher for the racing model. I like the looks, but not the price! My biggest complaint is that the DSA insists that the boat be geared more to the racer, not the casual sailor like me, and it shows in the lack of mooring cleats (which O'DAY had as standard) and the need for an optional bracket to mount an outboard (O'Day had a molded-in "kicker-pit" in the afterdeck to allow clamping hte outboard right to the transom on the DS I and the DS II and III had no afterdeck allowing the motor to be easily clamped to the transom with no need for a bracket (I did add a motor board to my boat to angle the outboard better on the slightly reversed transom angle of the DS ).
I do have to disagree with the above post that claims the DS will not plane as Uffa Fos intended. Yes, George O'day did add (against Fox's wishes!) the cuddy, but as long as you don't stow too much heavy gear in the bow...... the DS will get up on plane on a broad reach or run under the right conditions (a little following sea helps a lot!), and I've done it a few times!
Well, long story.... but that is where the SLI boats fit in.
PS: O'DAY also upgraded the Widgeon and Javelin in 1971 just like the DS, making all 3 more self-rescuing, and for a breif time, they even refered to the "new" designs as WIDGEON II and JAVELIN II. I guess hte Javelin Class didn't object as loudly as the DSA?
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History Aint Boring
whoever thought that just did not dig into it. Thanks for your help in understanding the lineage. Now all I need to do is pickup the boat, clean and inspect it, learn how to rig it and wait for some warmer weather. Thanks guys.
whoever thought that just did not dig into it. Thanks for your help in understanding the lineage. Now all I need to do is pickup the boat, clean and inspect it, learn how to rig it and wait for some warmer weather. Thanks guys.
Got It!
Picked up my new, old boat and hauled it home. Very pleased. Sure it needs cleaning, needs some testing of rigging etc but I have plenty of time before it gets warm. Looking forward to it.
Picked up my new, old boat and hauled it home. Very pleased. Sure it needs cleaning, needs some testing of rigging etc but I have plenty of time before it gets warm. Looking forward to it.
I just bought the same boat, its in great condition but missing the jib and rudder. Maybe you can help. I'm a brand new sailboat person trying to learn a little bit about this boat. Like you I liked it because it looks just like the O'Day DS. the problem I have if I need to can parts like the rudder or sails or anything should I be looking for the O'Day model stuff or Try to find stuff for the Sunfish Version. I have so many question. The owner is still looking for the rudder and jib. If I had them and needed to replace or repair them I would be able to measure them for replacement pieces. Any help would be appreciated.
How are you making out with your DS Daysailor
Thanks Tim
Tim, Other than sails, which any sail maker should have the specs for, any "Day Sailer" Specific parts for the SLI or CCSB built Day Sailer (aka: DS IV) will probably be best obtained from Cape Cod Shipbuilding, the current builder. The Rudder is still the same as far as I can tell, (Did you have any luck trying that DS II rudder that you looked at?) There are slight differences in the centerboard between SLI and CCSB, but CCSB is aware of them and will make the adjustments (however ,I think you said the CB was OK). I meant to get back to you sooner about the rigging (trying to find pictures of a rigged SLI boat, no luck so far. Did find some decent pictures of a rigged up Cape Cod Shipbuilding built DS). I have the Manual for the CCSB DS IV, but no pictures in there.
Update to my History post above, the price for a new DS IV from Cape Cod Shipbuilding is now $20,000 w/o sails!
Update to my History post above, the price for a new DS IV from Cape Cod Shipbuilding is now $20,000 w/o sails!