Commands

[Don Guillette]

I was part of a discussion on another network where the subject was mast rake (which has been beaten to death here and I don't want to get into it) and it made me think about how much is too much and how most skippers are not specific as to the amount of adjustment they want their crew to make on a particular sail trim control.For example, a skipper will say "give me some outhaul". Does that sound like you??When I hear that on boats I'm on I wonder a couple of things. The first is WHY does he want to adjust the outhaul in the first place? Assuming there is a good reason, the next question is which way and how much? The next question I have is what about the other controls? By that I mean the outhaul is a factor for draft depth along with mast bend. The outhaul also is a factor for draft position along with the boom vang, cunningham, and mainsheet. Touch one of them and you have to do something with the other ones.To put it into simplier trms, if your car had a carb with 4 jets would you adjust only one of them and expect 100% performance? Obviously, you wouldn't but a lot of skippers adjust only one control for draft depth, draft position, twist or angle of attack and wonder why they the boat does not perform.Do you know what controls are used to adjust draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack for the mainsail and jib? Do you know HOW MUCH adjustment to tell your crew to dial in for each point of sail and wind condition? Dirty Harry said "a man has to know his limitations" and if you don't know the answers to the above I can help you. All you have to do is ask. On the other hand, if you do know the answers then do your crew a favor and give specific commands.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Not a problem

If I'm sailing with novices, I don't expect them to know or understand fairly common sailing commands. If I want them to do something, I tell them exactly what needs to be done. When I'm sailing with an experienced crew, we all know what needs to be done before it requires a command. If a discussion of exactly what needs to be done is needed, and it rarely is, we have it before the event, not during or after it. If I'm the skipper of my boat in a race, everyone in the crew knows that the time to make suggestions about boat and sail trim is before it needs to be done. When I give a command during a race, the last thing I want at that time is to host a discussion group on sail trim.... The bottom line is that is issue is a non-issue, at least for me.

 

[Ron10127]

Yep

I like your response Pete

 

[Don Guillette]

It is a problem

Each year I sail on the Catalina National team at their National regatta, which is held somewhere in the US. We have been sailing together for so long we know what everyone is thinking bfore they think it. That is why we rarely finish lower than second. Additionally,I've sailed with some very good crews in SO. CA with the same result but they are not the norm.The problem is that the above is a small percentage of sailors. I have probably sailed with more beginner to intermediate crews in a 6 month period than most sailors will sail with in a lifetime. To such an etent my wife told me that since I seem to like them so much why don't I go live with them!! After that conversation I cut way, way back on my sailing activities. I don't want to live alone on a boat!!Beginner to intermeiate skippers will give incomplete comands simply because they are still learning and actually do not know how much or which way to call the commnd. That was the purpose of this thread - if you don't know the command, I can teach yo and give you the tools you need to get the job done quicker than you could think about it. The thread was not directed to guys who know what to do but to the beginners to intermediates that are GUESSING at sail trim adjustments.

 

[mortyd]

commad

don, with all respect, i thnik you're putting the cart before the horse.i've never been part of a sailing crew that knows the correct way to commnunicate.the first flying lesson one usually gets is, NO MESSEAGE IS A MESSAGE UNTIL ACKNOWLEDGED. when the tower says, 'left on delta,' you reply 'left on delta.'when the skipper says 'ready about.' everyone neccesary replies 'ready about' in turn. without this simple, but critical, method. everything else is a bit of reinventing the wheel. now back to the outhaul.

 

[Don Guillette]

communicate

Not sure where I'm putting the cart before the horse but who knows, maye I am.All good racing crews know how to communicate. That is one of the reasons they win races. The Catalina 30 National team I sail on is an example of 5 guys that know what each are thinging.Here's the point I'm rying to make about cruisers and middle to back of the pack racers. The skipper will say "give me some outhaul" or "I need more vang" or "move the fairlead". How would you or anyone execute those commands? You have no idea which way to go or how far. More importantly, you have no idea WHY the command is being issued. A few words from the skipper as to why he is making the change helps the crew learn. Experienced crews don't need the extra words but beginners do and benefit from it.

 

[Alan]

I have to agree with Don.

I race with an experienced crew and we sail together a great deal. When I give a command, the crew is expected to respond and acknowledge that it was heard and understood. Using the correct terminology also minimizes the chances of errors.Tactical discussions on the other hand are just that. We discuss our position and the tactical options, then a decision is made.On an aside, Don. In 1998, the Catalina National Regatta was held in Connecticut on Long Island Sound. Our boat "Fearless Frog" won the Cat 30 Championship that year. Were you there??

 

[Les Blackwell]

I have some different thoughts on crew and skipper

I have won my share of races, awards and placed in an international race. I believe I know how to sail. However, it took me a number of boats and a number of crews before I figured it out. Foremost, a skipper needs to be a teacher. If the skipper is going to give a command, the crew needs to know what that command mandates. Ready about is a command and I like a crew to tell me they are ready, however, they also need to know where to stand, what their assignment is and probably more important, when their task is done for the moment.I would never give a command of "give me some outhaul", rather, I would asked the person in charge of the main, "hey, the wind is ligthtening, should we adjust the main?" Or something like that. I want my crew to look at their responsibility and do something. The same holds fast for the jib people. If I screw up at the helm, bot the main and jib crew need to adjust the sails....instantly. If they adjust the main, someone has to adjust the jib. It can't be just one sail or the other.On the other hand, the skipper can't be just giving commands. I've had a crew tell me I was approaching a wind change, "pay attention." What an alert! I want a crew that tells me that a "...a larger boat is over taking on port side, not in our class and we ought to tack to clear wind." I can now as skipper look up and make a decision as to what to do. If my crew tells me a boat is on starboard tack at two o'clock, I say, "boat at two o'clock, thank you. Let's tack." One of the rules on our boat was to acknowledge the other's information and say thank you. It sounds silly but it works. Respect begates respect.Skippers have to teach their crew as to what they want, but also, they have to respect their crew for what they know. My boat won "boat of the year" a few years back. I didn't win the award, the boat did because of its crew and skipper. We worked together as a team. No skipper should yell and if a crew member has a problem of understanding what is required, it is the skipper's fault. He/She needs to be a teacher.A funny story about one of my crew. The foredeck crew (2) went forward in a race and got the spinnaker and spinnaker pole ready to fly. Somewhere in the process, one member yelled back to the cockpit, "release the starbord spinnaker sheet." Nothing happened. I was at the helm and knew who was supposed to do something. Pretty soon, the command was given again in a loudeer voice. "Release the Starboard spinnaker sheet!" Again nothing happened. I saw that the person to do that task was alert and watching. Presently, she leaned outside the dodger and said in a sweet voice, "How do you ask?" And the reply was, "PLEASE release the starboard spinnaker sheet." It was done.We didn't loose anyplaces in that exchange and we all laughed at the end of the race. The crew had trust in each other but for a moment I wondered if I need to get involved. It turned out I didn't need to. We still won. So PLEASE teach you crew how to run the boat. It is the skipper's responsibility. Les

 

[John Nantz]

Great Write-up Les

For others not familiar with Puget Sound racing, Boat of the Year is a tremendous award as it combines the results of numerous major races throughout the Northwest.With regard to being polite, in the news they like to point out whenever a survey shows the Northwest has the most courteous drivers, people, etc. in the country - seems this happens about once a year with some organization taking a survey - Les's write-up makes me thin that maybe it has carried over into boating too? Frankly, I never thought about it.The exception might be a powerboat overtaking a slower moving sailboat and going by close abeam - but then maybe they don't count.

 

[Don Guillette]

Fearless Frog

Alan: No, I was not at that race but I've done the Nationals with Max Munger, whom I assume you know, at San Diego, Long Beach, Santa Cruz (the all time best races I've EVER, EVER participated in) and San Francisco. I was scheduled to attend Seattle and Detroit but something happened. I don't remember what got in the way. I was also planning on Galveston ths year but the event was held right at the time of our move to Tucson and my wife would have killed me if I left her with all this boxes to unpack!! It was shame to miss that regatta because Max Munger, who I crew for, took 1st over all. The best I've done with him is very close seconds, which as far as I'm concerned don't mean much. Very few people, other than the guys involved remember who came in second.Do you know Max Munger? I run the mainsheet/ traveler for him. The jib is too much work and I'm to old for the foredeck. Alan, I hope some day we get to sail together, either on the same boat or in a race situation. I would like that. There are a number of other guys on this forum that I also would enjoy sailing with.

 

[Calif. Ted]

I'll give my vote to the NW as "most polite

region", as a native of CA, the first time I saw a sign on the interstate in WA. that said"Aggresive drivers will be ticketed" I had to stop and have my picture taken with it. WOW, We're not in Orange County no more Dorothy!

 

[Alan]

Hey Don

That would be a blast. I'd love to pick up a few pointers from the master. Unfortunately Arizona is not in the near future. Let me know if your planning anything on the right(really "left" coast).